Albert Breer on Jaylon Smith

[Wood]

He is past the last biomechanical hurdle in that the muscle is now innervated. We don't know for how long it's been or how much more he will end up with but it is what it is.

At this point it's a question of how much strength he has back and the existential question of at what point does he have enough strength in the peroneal that it is no longer drop foot.

He can pick his foot up at an interval of once a second jumping over hurdles as of a few weeks ago. The season starts in late August, 4.5 months from now.

thats my problem with your entire take the whole time. You keep trying to reframe reinvent what drop foot is. I have worked in hospital (neuro) for 10 years. I know what it is, looks like and how/if it gets resolved. He still has drop foot. I will stop debating this issue with you because you have zero qualifications to do so. Good luck

 

[big dog cowboy]

Article doesn't sound very encouraging, basically he is a shell of his former self if he has to wear the brace?

That article has pretty much debunked in not only this but several other Jaylon Smith threads the last few days.

 

[waldoputty]

you have been off on this subject matter the entire time.

what?
it has been reported in numerous articles that jaylon said 4.5...

 

[DandyDon52]

Let the kid sit another season and see if he's 100% in 2018.

No need in risking permanent injury by bringing him in before he is completely healed.

Go Cowboys!

i agree , but jerry wants to see him play, so he will play.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

thats my problem with your entire take the whole time. You keep trying to reframe reinvent what drop foot is. I have worked in hospital (neuro) for 10 years. I know what it is, looks like and how/if it gets resolved. He still has drop foot. I will stop debating this issue with you because you have zero qualifications to do so. Good luck

How droll. You are not a doctor, OT, or something with direct experience else you would have stated it as such. I'm guessing you are a radiologist or similar technician. If that is the case you are not "qualified" either.

If you know how it is resolved then perhaps you could shed light on it as opposed to the unconvincing appeal to authority.

How have I reframed dropfoot? Be specific.

My take the entire time has been that dropfoot is when you cannot pick your foot up. The root cause of his condition was peroneal palsy. That is the biomechanics I am talking about. The muscle has reinnervated. You don't seem to be dealing with that well.

Not surprised CPT would like your blanket dismissal though.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

thats my problem with your entire take the whole time. You keep trying to reframe reinvent what drop foot is. I have worked in hospital (neuro) for 10 years. I know what it is, looks like and how/if it gets resolved. He still has drop foot. I will stop debating this issue any further because you have zero qualifications to do so. Good luck

I'm glad folks are picking up on his three-card monte schtick...

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Here are the key facts as I see them:

1) The ACL and PCL repair was a success. This is demonstrated by his return to athletic activities. The only concern at this point is the peroneal nerve.
2) According to his doctor the nerve was stretched and not elongated with no significant damage to the nerve exterior.
3) The best outcome is a grade 2 injury which indicates complete nerve regeneration and a full recovery.
4) The worst outcome is scar tissue forms inside the nerve causing a partial recovery. There are further surgical solutions if this is the case.
5) Smith is 16 weeks or 3.5 months postop and is regaining sensation in foot indicating regeneration is ongoing.
6) The nerve recovery timeframe is around 6 months due to the length of injured nerve. He could well be recovered by July.
6) Modern MRI techniques can see the development of scar tissue and abnormalities. This implies his doctors can tell if it is a grade 2 or 3 injury at this point based on whether or not scars are forming.

This was from my summation from April 30, 2016. That was a couple days after the draft.

What exactly have I reframed?

 

[Elziegreat83]

I'd go forward in this draft as if he's not going to play at all. That means making LB a priority, maybe even above CB. Either Carr or Claiborne will be back, but our 3rd starting linebacker is a mystery right now. If Hasaan Reddick is there at 28 and is BPA, you gotta take him.

Yep, Gregory and Smith need to be thought of in the same way (obviously COMPLETELY different circumstances) as in do not count on either to play a down. It should be thought of as a bonus if either play again. Approach free agency and the draft as if they aren't on this team.

 

[Elziegreat83]

My daughter is a orthotic & prosthetic technology specialist. I just talked to her about this specific case and she confirmed to me that the materials they use now days are far superior in recreating realistic movement of human appendages. She is very familiar with the brace that athletes use to overcome "drop foot" and suggested to me that Jaylon should have no problem adapting to the device and resume being all he can be.

Man I hope so!

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I'm glad folks are picking up on his three-card monte schtick...

Glad to see you are taking your Vitamin I. The thread they closed had you going from grandstanding on Rappoport's claims of no improvement in the nerve to you claiming that you have thought the nerve had been firing the whole time.

I posted my original stance from days after the draft. Neither of you have the ability to back up your claims.

 

[revospeed]

Yep, Gregory and Smith need to be thought of in the same way (obviously COMPLETELY different circumstances) as in do not count on either to play a down. It should be thought of as a bonus if either play again. Approach free agency and the draft as if they aren't on this team.

Jerry gambled big with the past two 2nd rounders and so far, it's not looking good. I guess it's good that McClay and Stephen have relegated him having the second round being his pick, but I would be scared to death if Tak is on the board at 28. Jerry might fall in love with this War Daddy who won't help this year. Same with Tim Williams.

I want our first two picks to be guys that can come in and play right away. Steady guys. Then in the 3rd Jerry can play craps.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I love how when a pick doesn't work out it's Jerry's fault but when it does it is somebody else.

Meanwhile players at the combine all want to play for him.

 

[Silverstar]

I wonder if swimming is also part of Jaylon's rehab.
A couple of laps a day should really strengthen his leg muscles and possibly help the nerve too.
If I had his injury, I would look at all options in reaching a full recovery.

 

[danielofthesaints]

firing is not a medical term and I have always taken it mean actuate the muscle. That has been a big part of the miscommunication with this issue: uncertainty as to the jargon being used.

Nerve firing is a medical term, but I do agree with you that much of the confusion comes with the many ways one can say "nerves firing", such as an impulse or an action potential. Also, the firing of a nerve does include the eventual actuation of the muscle in some cases, but it can also communicate with other effectors like glands or other neurons, so it doesn't have to be specific to the muscle.

 

[CyberB0b]

I'm glad folks are picking up on his three-card monte schtick...

Tell me about it. He all but guaranteed the nerve would be firing in July 2016.


April 2016:

Here are the key facts as I see them:

1) The ACL and PCL repair was a success. This is demonstrated by his return to athletic activities. The only concern at this point is the peroneal nerve.
2) According to his doctor the nerve was stretched and not elongated with no significant damage to the nerve exterior.
3) The best outcome is a grade 2 injury which indicates complete nerve regeneration and a full recovery.
4) The worst outcome is scar tissue forms inside the nerve causing a partial recovery. There are further surgical solutions if this is the case.
5) Smith is 16 weeks or 3.5 months postop and is regaining sensation in foot indicating regeneration is ongoing.
6) The nerve recovery timeframe is around 6 months due to the length of injured nerve. He could well be recovered by July.
6) Modern MRI techniques can see the development of scar tissue and abnormalities. This implies his doctors can tell if it is a grade 2 or 3 injury at this point based on whether or not scars are forming.

May 2016:

My research indicates that barring a setback, his knee will start firing this summer.

You are not the arbiter of the truth, chachi. Just because you ask questions does not mean that I don't have a point. Again, barring a setback his nerve which we know to already be regening will be finished with it by July. Deal with it.

Once this July deadline came and went, he started talking about how anything is possible and he just discussing a range of possibilities, and it is best to hedge your bets. He's full of it. His analysis is as useful as Joe's at the liquor store.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Tell me about it. He all but guaranteed the nerve would be firing in July 2016.


April 2016:


May 2016:


Once this July deadline came and went, he started talking about how anything is possible and he just discussing a range of possibilities, and it is best to hedge your bets. He's full of it. His analysis is as useful as Joe's at the liquor store.

I admit that I was ignorant on the reinnervation process at that point. I had initially thought that the scar tissue was the only risk factor. Other people pointed it out to me and I adjusted accordingly to the truth in the course of that discussion.

My statement was true. The axonal regen down to the muscle was likely done by July. I just completely whiffed on the muscle reinnervation process.

That is not me reframing what dropfoot is though. I do love how people like to point out my mistakes and pretend that means everything else I say is wrong too. If that was the case then no one would ever listen to you. If you aren't making mistakes then you are never learning.

Anywho, this is the exact same take you came at me when I was saying the video showed his nerve was firing and he could pick up his foot. His nerve was firing and he can pick up his foot now. Do you disagree?

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

nevermind

 

[CyberB0b]

Anywho, this is the exact same take you came at me when I was saying the video showed his nerve was firing and he could pick up his foot. His nerve was firing and he can pick up his foot now. Do you disagree?

I have no idea, and neither do you. That is my point. Even his doctors don't know 100% where the recovery process will take him, The videos are definitely encouraging and I think his positive attitude will be the driving force behind what ultimately happens with him.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I have no idea, and neither do you. That is my point. Even his doctors don't know 100% where the recovery process will take him, The videos are definitely encouraging and I think his positive attitude will be the driving force behind what ultimately happens with him.

I obviously have an idea. The proper statement is "there is no way you can know that," but you would be wrong.

In addition to the range of motion he shows on the video, the article in the OP says "The nerve has started firing again, and he’s gained foot activation."

Albert Breer is IMO the most credible reporter in the NFL.

I get that you are hung up on me not being smarter than you, you are determined to not have to listen to me like teenagers do, and it dominates your every interaction with me but do you still disagree that his nerve is firing and he can lift his foot?

 

[CyberB0b]

I obviously have an idea. The proper statement is "there is now way you can know that," but you would be wrong.

In addition to the range of motion he shows on the video, the article in the OP says "The nerve has started firing again, and he’s gained foot activation."

Albert Breer is IMO the most credible reporter in the NFL.

I get that you are hung up on me not being smarter than you, you are determined to not have to listen to me like teenagers do, and it dominates your every interaction with me but do you still disagree that his nerve is firing and he can lift his foot?

Albert Breer isn't a medical doctor, so his diagnosis is irrelevant. He even qualifies his statement with this:

Now, the whole truth, as I understand it:

He says he has "foot activation", whatever that means, and the follows it up with a couple of paragraphs about why he is still wearing an AFO. Obviously, if he is wearing a device that "will allow you to have your foot flex up, but not have it slap down", then he does not have full range of motion, as "Dallas isn’t counting on anything like that in the short term."

I generally like your posts, and I don't really care if you are smarter than me. You very well may be. What annoys me about this subject is that you take a hard line stance, without adequate knowledge of the subject, knowledge you will never have, and you belittle anyone who doesn't agree with your assertions. As I said before, your opinion on the subject is just as valid as the guy at the liquor store. You've been proven wrong on this subject multiple times, but continue your passive aggressive attacks on people.

This has run its course. If you would like to continue the discussion via PM, that's fine.