An Argument In Zeke's Favor For A New Contract

[mattjames2010]

So we win the NFC East 2 years out of 3 and the one year we don't he missed 6 games?

We were 3-5 and on our way to NOT making the playoffs before making the trade that "saved" our season. We've been over this.

 

[Cowboysheelsreds053]

...so Zeke isn't what is making this offense tick. It took more to make the offense tick?

I'm sleep!

 

[mattjames2010]

I meant BLEW IT, they were so great AP didnt get them to the SB, he has NO RINGS, guess he sucks..

Nobody said rings = quality for a single player. Stop arguing against something not said here, it's pointless.

We are arguing "generational talent" - which you attempted to put Zeke in. Zeke, in no category, is "generational". Zeke has ONE STAT that could make him that and that's durability, but we won't find that out for some time.

Again, Peterson may have been behind some good lines in his career, but he never had a line like we saw in 2014 and 2016. Zeke has also not elevated an offense that the Vikings had in 08 into being competitive enough to be playoffs, and Zeke hasn't had to deal with someone like Ponder who was out of the league 2 years after the Vikings let him walk.

Zeke performed at his best when he had everything around him working in 2016. When things weren't working around him in 2018, as I said, we went 3-5 and because things looked bleak, we had to give up a first round pick to bring in help. And even then, we still were inconsistent - only putting up 13 points against the Saints and putting a big fat 0 against the Colts.

 

[Maxmadden]

We were 3-5 and on our way to NOT making the playoffs before making the trade that "saved" our season. We've been over this.

Yes teams continued to try and stack the box but Dak and Coop were able to make them pay.
Without Zeke they just double team Coop, ball game over.

 

[mattjames2010]

Yes teams continued to try and stack the box but Dak and Coop were able to make them pay.
Without Zeke they just double team Coop, ball game over.

And you think this doesn't happen to other great RBs? Also, the argument was, from the beginning, that Zeke is what makes our offense "tick" - if this was the case, Zeke wouldn't need this kind of help.

As I just pointed out, you think this wasn't happening to Peterson in 2008 and 2012? Still got to the playoffs. Again, difference between a great back and a generational back.

 

[Cowboysheelsreds053]

Yes teams continued to try and stack the box but Dak and Coop were able to make them pay.
Without Zeke they just double team Coop, ball game over.

This, not rocket science some try to make this out.

 

[Maxmadden]

And you think this doesn't happen to other great RBs? Also, the argument was, from the beginning, that Zeke is what makes our offense "tick" - if this was the case, Zeke wouldn't need this kind of help.

As I just pointed out, you think this wasn't happening to Peterson in 2008 and 2012? Still got to the playoffs. Again, difference between a great back and a generational back.

Yeah it happens to other RB's and we still made it to the playoffs. I don't know how good Zeke is going to be. Generational or not.
We were discussing leverage in contracts and it sort of got sidetracked.
No biggie. Just a discussion.

 

[Corso]

Then why did we go 3-5 with him and need additional help?

I don't necessarily have a bone in this argument and I generally agree with you, but I'm going to throw out that it's because DC's basically had carte blanche to completely sell out to stop Zeke without any fear of the WR's, or the TE's on the team before Amari joining.

Even when they didn't load that box to no end, every eye was on Zeke, not Allen Hurns, or Gallop, or Schwarz, or that other TE that got injured.

Just throwing that out there. Amari joined up and sets of eyes and DC attention started to spread the field away from Zeke.

 

[Corso]

I'm sleep!

I'm muthasumthin' Corso.
Pleased to meet you Sleep.

 

[Corso]

And you think this doesn't happen to other great RBs? Also, the argument was, from the beginning, that Zeke is what makes our offense "tick" - if this was the case, Zeke wouldn't need this kind of help.

As I just pointed out, you think this wasn't happening to Peterson in 2008 and 2012? Still got to the playoffs. Again, difference between a great back and a generational back.

Just look at Aaron Rodgers this year, unless you think he's a meh QB...
He needed help, didn't he? Who else on that team stirs their drink?

 

[Cowboysheelsreds053]

I don't necessarily have a bone in this argument and I generally agree with you, but I'm going to throw out that it's because DC's basically had carte blanche to completely sell out to stop Zeke without any fear of the WR's, or the TE's on the team before Amari joining.

Even when they didn't load that box to no end, every eye was on Zeke, not Allen Hurns, or Gallop, or Schwarz, or that other TE that got injured.

Just throwing that out there. Amari joined up and sets of eyes and DC attention started to spread the field away from Zeke.

Exactly bingo.

 

[Cowboysheelsreds053]

I'm muthasumthin' Corso.
Pleased to meet you Sleep.

LLLOOOLLL

 

[mattjames2010]

Just look at Aaron Rodgers this year, unless you think he's a meh QB...
He needed help, didn't he? Who else on that team stirs their drink?

I think Rodgers was limited this year due to the injury he suffered in week 1. His mobility wasn't there and his accuracy wasn't what we are used to - very different situation.

And no RB "stirs the drink" - again, if this was the case, the success would go through Zeke. But this was never the case - he's not THE reason we win games, and this was shown when we were 3-5 and about to miss the playoffs for the second straight season.

 

[Corso]

I think Rodgers was limited this year due to the injury he suffered in week 1. His mobility wasn't there and his accuracy wasn't what we are used to - very different situation.

And no RB "stirs the drink" - again, if this was the case, the success would go through Zeke. But this was never the case - he's not THE reason we win games, and this was shown when we were 3-5 and about to miss the playoffs for the second straight season.

Lol... okay buddy, Throw out them there excuses for Aaron.
You can be elite and still need help in a game that requires help at many, if not at all positions.

That was weak dude.

 

[mattjames2010]

Lol... okay buddy, Throw out them there excuses for Aaron.
You can be elite and still need help in a game that requires help at many, if not at all positions.

That was weak dude.

What excuses? It was very well known that Rodgers was dealing with knee and a groin issue all year, which completely killed his mobility. Are you seriously suggesting a knee injury wouldn't impact the QB? Heck, it was even known that Rodgers had a setback in his recovery back in October.

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/20...on-knee-injury-concussion-during-2018-season/

And nobody suggested Zeke isn't "elite" - the entire point is that the RB position simply doesn't make enough of an impact game to game in the NFL today to "stir the drink".

Yet again, if this entire offense ran through Zeke, we wouldn't have needed to give up a valuable pick to jumpstart our offense. There is obviously more that is needed than the great and almighty Zeke. He wasn't winning us games with his legs, clearly. Heck, even 2016 was about the offensive line - since that same offensive line made Demarco Murray a 1,800 yard rusher and McFadden a 1,000 yard rusher.

 

[buybuydandavis]

Disagree Zeke has the leverage. He is not a FA. He is under contract which means if he were to hold out it then it would be at a significant cost ($32k per day?). If he was a FA then holding out for a new contract would be a completely different scenario.

Jerry has some leverage over Zeke too. Besides withholding paying, I think Jerry has the right to claw back bonus money paid for the suspension prorated over the contract. It's one thing not to get paid. It's a lot tougher to dig into your piggy bank and give money back.

A holdout is probably a net negative for Zeke's marketing value too.

One issue right now is that the suspension unguaranteed Zeke's salary for the year, putting this year's salary at injury risk for preseason activities. Jerry should do something about that, provided that Zeke commits to not holding out.

The NFL collective bargaining agree was predicated on teams having the rights to 1st rounds for 4 years plus an option. Zeke was drafted 4th, was paid like it, and plays like it. Also missed 6 games for suspension. It's hard to argue that he has delivered so much above the expectations for the 4th pick, unlike Dak, who has delivered far above a 4th round pick.

If top 1st rounders are just going to hold out after their 3rd year, that's a big problem for the salary structure of the league. Owners should not knuckle under. Let Jerry guarantee the season's money but for holdout. That's good faith dealing.

 

[buybuydandavis]

As I have already stated, even BEFORE Cooper got here, Zeke was not seeing stacked boxes at any higher rate than other RBs in the league.

The analysis I recall of that counted "men in the box", not men in the box relative to the number of men the offense has in the box.

 

[Cowboysheelsreds053]

What excuses? It was very well known that Rodgers was dealing with knee and a groin issue all year, which completely killed his mobility. Are you seriously suggesting a knee injury wouldn't impact the QB? Heck, it was even known that Rodgers had a setback in his recovery back in October.

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/20...on-knee-injury-concussion-during-2018-season/

And nobody suggested Zeke isn't "elite" - the entire point is that the RB position simply doesn't make enough of an impact game to game in the NFL today to "stir the drink".

Yet again, if this entire offense ran through Zeke, we wouldn't have needed to give up a valuable pick to jumpstart our offense. There is obviously more that is needed than the great and almighty Zeke. He wasn't winning us games with his legs, clearly. Heck, even 2016 was about the offensive line - since that same offensive line made Demarco Murray a 1,800 yard rusher and McFadden a 1,000 yard rusher.

Try telling that to CM for the Panthers, if he doesn't affect the game. Try Gurley, Zeke Barkley they all affect the game my man.

 

[mattjames2010]

Try telling that to CM for the Panthers, if he doesn't affect the game. Try Gurley, Zeke Barkley they all affect the game my man.

Barkley had a better season than Zeke, what was the Giants record?

Giants no longer have the QB or defense. Adding to my point that the value of RBs dropped significantly due to what wins you games in this league. You go as far as the QBs arm takes you.

And despite McCaffrey's season, once Cam couldn't throw anymore, how many games did they win?

 

[Corso]

Try telling that to CM for the Panthers, if he doesn't affect the game. Try Gurley, Zeke Barkley they all affect the game my man.

And Zeke had every darn defender's attention every single snap. It neutralized the offense and stressed the D because the DC's were right: there was no other weapon to fear, except for Dak's legs.
Then came Amari... Now defenders had to pay attention to another weapon worth respecting. Thus making the rest of the offense easier.
Even with the stale bread play calling. Which was also a hindrance to no end.

This is not surgery.