An Elite defense with Dak could be enough

[PAPPYDOG]

With the way QBs and WRs are paid today, I don't think it's possible to have an elite D. A good D, but not much better than that. That 2013 Seahawks team was a combination of lucky draft picks and players on rookie contracts. And they fell off quick.

Our defense can hold their own out there the problem is we don't score enough points early and on a constant basis.
We held the Chiefs in their house to 19 pts and still LOST!!!
Held the Niners to 23 in our house and still LOST!!!
Folks you need to score points to win no matter what the defense does!!

 

[Flamma]

Our defense can hold their own out there the problem is we don't score enough points early and on a constant basis.
We held the Chiefs in their house to 19 pts and still LOST!!!
Held the Niners to 23 in our house and still LOST!!!
Folks you need to score points to win no matter what the defense does!!

Don't forget Denver. They could have shut us out if they wanted to. Then the usual crap starts against the Raiders and Cards. But we had a #1 offense. Better than the Chiefs, Bills, Packers, Rams, and Bucs. Statistics works wonders.

We can't go into every year like the Chiefs and Packers do and expect to contend. We need a balanced attack and at the very least a run stuffing D. We should be able to contend if we can get that. Or else what are we doing? The run game alone isn't going to do it, ask Tony about 2014. Same with 2016. It's all good when you're dominating the time of possession. But once you don't, the D gets exposed.

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

The one thing the Cowboys have missed this era . Or shouid I say the biggest thing they’ve missed is building a top 5 caliber Elite defense .

Some fans forget even with HOF QB’s like Roger and Troy we had top caliber defenses . Doomsday was our motto.

But in this Cap era it’s difficult to build both . Most either have an Elite QB or Elite Defense . The Cowboys have not had either this era.

I think the issue is that of all the Dallas Cowboys GM’s they’ve had the last 25+ years, 0 have been willing to invest in the interior Dline in a meaningful way, and 0 have been willing to invest in the safety position in a meaningful way.

Every single elite, championship defense in That timespan has had both of these positions stacked to the gills.

Warren Sapp + John Lynch
Haloti Ngata + Ed Reed
Sam Adams + Rod Woodson
Malik Jackson + TJ Ward
Rich Seymour + Lawyer Milloy
Vince Wilfork + Rod Woodson
Vince Wilfork + Devin Mccourty
Fletcher Cox + Malcolm Jenkins
Casey Hampton + Troy Polamalu
*Cam Chancellor + Earl Thomas (double all-pro safety compensates for oddity of zero pro bowl DTs OR DEs on top NFL defense)

How many of those teams had a CB as good as the S? How many had a DE as good as the DT?


Jerry has finally got it right on offense by fortifying the nonskill positions in the offensive line, but he’s still going after CBs and flashy LBers and monster contract DEs over the positions that are proven to elevate your defensive foundations…. As they just don’t have that glitz and glamour energy.

Did you know Dallas is the only team in the national football league to not draft a DT in the first round this millenium? Until that changes, this is the status quo.

 

[PAPPYDOG]

Don't forget Denver. They could have shut us out if they wanted to. Then the usual crap starts against the Raiders and Cards. But we had a #1 offense. Better than the Chiefs, Bills, Packers, Rams, and Bucs. Statistics works wonders.

We can't go into every year like the Chiefs and Packers do and expect to contend. We need a balanced attack and at the very least a run stuffing D. We should be able to contend if we can get that. Or else what are we doing? The run game alone isn't going to do it, ask Tony about 2014. Same with 2016. It's all good when you're dominating the time of possession. But once you don't, the D gets exposed.

Shannon was correct it's our QB M/O........You know garbage time stats galore!!
Cowboys lose again......

 

[CowboyFanInLexKy]

What has Rodgers done in his whole career???

Been to the playoffs 11 times (in his 13 years) and has been to a Superbowl?

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

Been to the playoffs 11 times (in his 13 years) and has been to a Superbowl?

Also 11 career playoff wins, which is top 10 alltime. That’s more than Drew Brees, Steve Young, Dan Marino, and winning 1 more will pass both Staubach and Aikman

 

[glimmerman]

If we could have a consistent top 5 Defense and a average ST we would have been fine in the past. We had a top Offense. This year is a different team.

We need to stop the run and pressure qb first.

 

[CowboyRoy]

It was that year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It was only ranked as #1 in yardage. But it was clear the defense wouldnt hold up if it really needed to.

The offense and Quincy Carter were soooo bad that year that teams knew all they had to do was run the ball, score some points and they would win the game. There was very little high scoring games and most opponents had conservative game plans against us. Not a lot of heavy passing. Yardage numbers were kept low.

 

[RS12]

Did you know Dallas is the only team in the national football league to not draft a DT in the first round this millenium? .

Sure it shows every time the opposition needs to move the chains on 3rd down. Jed and Jethro still haven't figured out games are won and lost in the trenches after 30 years on the job.

 

[kskboys]

Many of the ones who were made mods in the old forums were very bad.

I didn't always agree w/ what was done.

 

[kskboys]

It was only ranked as #1 in yardage. But it was clear the defense wouldnt hold up if it really needed to.

The offense and Quincy Carter were soooo bad that year that teams knew all they had to do was run the ball, score some points and they would win the game. There was very little high scoring games and most opponents had conservative game plans against us. Not a lot of heavy passing. Yardage numbers were kept low.

Sounds true.

 

[kskboys]

I looked at PA and TP/G

Points are generally not a good stat to judge a D by, as not all points are given up by the D, and there are other factors involved. Every yard allowed is given up by the D.

 

[RonnieT24]

If you are talking are talking defenses that smother opponents such as 85 Bears, 76 Steelers, 2000 Ravens, those only come along once a decade or so. I dont see it in the current defense, I think they still need to show they stuff the run, and even then wouldnt be in the class above.

That 2002 Bucs defense weren't no joke either. Warren Sapp, Derrick Brooks, Booger MacFarland, John Lynch, Simeon Rice, Ronde Barber.. that group was special. I think they were on pace to break the record for lowest points allowed per game for a lot of that season.

 

[America's Cowboy]

I didn't always agree w/ what was done.

Thank you, K.

 

[America's Cowboy]

Been to the playoffs 11 times (in his 13 years) and has been to a Superbowl?

How long ago was that Super Bowl?

 

[RonnieT24]

Points are generally not a good stat to judge a D by, as not all points are given up by the D, and there are other factors involved. Every yard allowed is given up by the D.

I would actually argue the opposite. I honestly don't care how many yards a defense gives up as long as it keeps the opponent from scoring. The rule of thumb used to be that you expect to give up about 7 points per 100 yards of offense. So if you give up 17 points on 400 yards of offense as a defense you have more than done your job. Yes over the course of a season the special teams might give up one or two TDs and the office might give up a pick 6 or two. But over the long haul those numbers are not a huge part of the equation. The problem with "bend don't break" defenses is when they face Hall of Fame level QBs.. whom you can't count on to screw up in the red zone the way you can other QBs. But I would still take a defense that gives up < 20 ppg while giving up 350 yards per game over a defense that gives up > 25 ppg while only giving up 300 yards per game.

 

[kskboys]

I would actually argue the opposite. I honestly don't care how many yards a defense gives up as long as it keeps the opponent from scoring. The rule of thumb used to be that you expect to give up about 7 points per 100 yards of offense. So if you give up 17 points on 400 yards of offense as a defense you have more than done your job. Yes over the course of a season the special teams might give up one or two TDs and the office might give up a pick 6 or two. But over the long haul those numbers are not a huge part of the equation. The problem with "bend don't break" defenses is when they face Hall of Fame level QBs.. whom you can't count on to screw up in the red zone the way you can other QBs. But I would still take a defense that gives up < 20 ppg while giving up 350 yards per game over a defense that gives up > 25 ppg while only giving up 300 yards per game.

Ah, but what you're missing is that may work against subpar teams, but those yards given up almost always causes losses in the playoffs. Looks like you even said that.

Plus, we're talking about rating a D. Points allowed doesn't work because those points were not all attributed to the D. Think about it, Ron, way too many times points are given up strictly because the O turned the ball over or STs flubbed something. That is clearly not on the D.

 

[kskboys]

Also 11 career playoff wins, which is top 10 alltime. That’s more than Drew Brees, Steve Young, Dan Marino, and winning 1 more will pass both Staubach and Aikman

Playoffs have been expanded, can't compare to the old timers.

 

[RonnieT24]

Ah, but what you're missing is that may work against subpar teams, but those yards given up almost always causes losses in the playoffs. Looks like you even said that.

Plus, we're talking about rating a D. Points allowed doesn't work because those points were not all attributed to the D. Think about it, Ron, way too many times points are given up strictly because the O turned the ball over or STs flubbed something. That is clearly not on the D.

Yes it is. If they hold the opponent to a FG after a turnover or a bad ST play then they get "points" for that. But nowhere in the rule book does it say just because the opponent gets the ball in your territory your defense has to allow a TD. In those instances they only gave up 25-30 yards.. but it led to a TD. How about you get your *** out there and hold them to a FG? So even in those situations, points is the thing, not yards. The great defenses of our lifetime would frequently send the opposing offense backwards in those situations. Or sometimes even take the ball back. Our defense figured out that last bit last season. Now we gotta get them to just stop the damn ground game and we got somethin.

 

[Pass2Run]

The one thing the Cowboys have missed this era . Or shouid I say the biggest thing they’ve missed is building a top 5 caliber Elite defense .

Some fans forget even with HOF QB’s like Roger and Troy we had top caliber defenses . Doomsday was our motto.

But in this Cap era it’s difficult to build both . Most either have an Elite QB or Elite Defense . The Cowboys have not had either this era.

My prediction, which I could be wrong about, is that the defense moves to top 7, at least. Has a chance to be top 3, imo.

That's really why I'm not as down on this team as some seem to be. Parsons was a huge difference maker. And I only expect our other guys from his class to get better as well.

We have a shot. All the pieces have to be there, and fall in the right place. But we have as good of a shot this year as any other year we've been good.

So far, McCarthy has improved the team every year, same for Moore and Quinn, all have improved (whether fans realize it or not). And I have enough things to be negative about in life, so I'm staying positive about the team I root for. ha