Anyone but skin homers really think

[Tio]

Started and produced

im just reading this thread, and i can tell your gonna get owned on the next page...lol dargon

 

[illone]

he's also looking at many potentially, average years in the league too...

just because he has potential doesn't mean that it's a sure bet he'll fulfill it, so to throw his potential into an argument doesn't leave you w/ much to stand on

If he catches 40 balls this season it'll be an improvement for the Skins. Our #2 receiver last year was Cooley. Patten who was brought in to be our #2 was injured and pretty much sucked IMO. All he was good for was some PI calls in a couple close games, Philly comes to mind.

The X factor here is Al Saunders offense. He passes first, and bringing in Lloyd and ARE will only give us more options in the passing game. I can't imagine we would need them to produce anything above what they've already done in the league in order to call our offense an improvement.

Sure, Lloyd has tons of untapped potential but even is he scratches the surface we're still a better overall unit.

Moss is good for 70+ catches so Lloyd catching even 30-40 and ARE with 30-40 is light years ahead of our production last season as long as Cooley produces again.

As far as Witten of course on this board he's going to be regarded as being the better player. Stats wise, though, they both have put up similar numbers and Cooley even edges him out in certian categories. Compare their 1st and 2nd seasons side by side.

We can go back and forth about Owens vs. Moss. I think Moss is more valuable to this team than Owens is to Dallas but I will still concede that Owens is slightly better. I wouldn't trade Moss for Owens, though, and there is no deal you could present the Commanders where they would. What Moss brings to the table is far and away better than Owens. He's a team player, unselfish, and just wants to win games. Owens has yet to display these qualities. Moss doesn't complain when he doesn't get the ball, either. Agree to disagree on this portion of the topic because no facts you show me will make me believe that I'd rather have Owens on my team than Moss. Most anyone else other than Cowboys fans would agree, including most NFL gms. We'll leave it at that.

Now, going back to ARE. He was brought in to be a special teams ace and slot receiver. This all could change but I've heard Gibbs countless times refer to ARE in a special teams sense. We could see him in the slot but I can almost guarantee he won't be the #2 receiver. I wouldn't even be surprised to see Patten as the #3, word out of mini-camp is that he's been stepping it up a notch. No way does he pass Lloyd on the depth chart, though.

Even with that in mind our receiving corps as a whole is better than the Cowboys.

Remember, this topic is about depth.

 

[Hostile]

We can go back and forth about Owens vs. Moss. I think Moss is more valuable to this team than Owens is to Dallas but I will still concede that Owens is slightly better. I wouldn't trade Moss for Owens, though, and there is no deal you could present the Commanders where they would. What Moss brings to the table is far and away better than Owens. He's a team player, unselfish, and just wants to win games. Owens has yet to display these qualities. Moss doesn't complain when he doesn't get the ball, either. Agree to disagree on this portion of the topic because no facts you show me will make me believe that I'd rather have Owens on my team than Moss. Most anyone else other than Cowboys fans would agree, including most NFL gms. We'll leave it at that.

Yeah, I'll agree to disagree because I don't think it's a forgone conclusion that NFL GMs would choose S. Moss over Owens. Philadelphia's would. They have a bias involved. The rest is pure speculation on your part, mine, and everyone else's.

You're also claiming that many of us are baised simply because he's going to play in Dallas. Actually most of us don't. Go back to the years Owens was with Philly and 90% of the people on this forum were still calling him the best WR in the Division. We hate Philly so it isn't about him being a Cowboy, it's about the fact that when on, no one is better.

Remember, this topic is about depth.

I love how the 4th WR is supposed to prove the point. Classic.

 

[illone]

Hostile,

How'd you end up in Tucson and a Cowboys fan?

Displaced like myself? (I'm in Phx btw)

 

[superpunk]

Moss is good for 70+ catches so Lloyd catching even 30-40 and ARE with 30-40 is light years ahead of our production last season as long as Cooley produces again.

Kennison has never caught 70 balls. I had a hard time tracking the Chiefs #2 receiver, but their third, Hall, only caught 40 (exactly) once, and only over 30 one other time. He never averaged alot of yards.

Randle El played in an offense as a #3 that had no TE. He barely was getting 40 balls. Lloyd barely could catch 40 as a #1.

Brunell is NO Trent Green. Not even close.

Yet - it is a foregone conclusion that this motley crue is going to do things the league's #1 offense of the past 4 years never did?

Right.

 

[illone]

Kennison has never caught 70 balls. I had a hard time tracking the Chiefs #2 receiver, but their third, Hall, only caught 40 (exactly) once, and only over 30 one other time. He never averaged alot of yards.

Moss has, though. Kennison caught high 60's last year and Moss is far and away better than him.

Randle El played in an offense as a #3 that had no TE. He barely was getting 40 balls. Lloyd barely could catch 40 as a #1.

ARE played on a team that ran the ball more than any other team in the league. They passed fewer times than anyone, also. Yet he still caught 40. That's a good sign considering we already pass the ball more than Pittsburgh. If Lloyd can catch 40 as a number one on a horrible offense like the 9ers then why wouldn't he be able to do the same thing on a offense like the Commanders as the #2?

Brunell is NO Trent Green. Not even close.

We don't need him to be Trent Green. We only need him to be Mark Brunell and continue to do the things he did last season. With more options in the passing game it is safe to say he'll use those options.

 

[Alexander]

Kennison has never caught 70 balls. I had a hard time tracking the Chiefs #2 receiver, but their third, Hall, only caught 40 (exactly) once, and only over 30 one other time. He never averaged alot of yards.

Randle El played in an offense as a #3 that had no TE. He barely was getting 40 balls. Lloyd barely could catch 40 as a #1.

Brunell is NO Trent Green. Not even close.

Yet - it is a foregone conclusion that this motley crue is going to do things the league's #1 offense of the past 4 years never did?

Right.

What is truly remarkable about Commander fans is that they are confident enough is Moss to raise him into the upper echelon after one outstanding year. Now, he is better than a proven WR in Owens, who has done it, year in and year out. Complete idiocy and not a one could have stated that prior to last season. Well, they could as they have a habit of doing that with all of their players.

Until last season, Moss was a tease who couldn't stay healthy and wasn't consistent and that's why he was traded for Lavernues Coles (who coincidentally was also the second coming at one time to Commander faithful).

 

[Charles]

What is truly remarkable about Commander fans is that they are confident enough is Moss to raise him into the upper echelon after one outstanding year. Now, he is better than a proven WR in Owens, who has done it, year in and year out. Complete idiocy and not a one could have stated that prior to last season. Well, they could as they have a habit of doing that with all of their players.

Until last season, Moss was a tease who couldn't stay healthy and wasn't consistent and that's why he was traded for Lavernues Coles (who coincidentally was also the second coming at one time to Commander faithful).

OUCH!!!

 

[superpunk]

Moss has, though. Kennison caught high 60's last year and Moss is far and away better than him.

Far and away? No. Plus, you seem to consider the Skins 2 & 3's better than KC's (one would reason that better=catching more passes) yet you reason that Moss will still do something Kennison has never done in the offense.

ARE played on a team that ran the ball more than any other team in the league. They passed fewer times than anyone, also. Yet he still caught 40.

Yeah....40, or 35.

Whatever....

That's a good sign considering we already pass the ball more than Pittsburgh. If Lloyd can catch 40 as a number one on a horrible offense like the 9ers then why wouldn't he be able to do the same thing on a offense like the Commanders as the #2?

Um....he was the #1 in SF.

#1=more opportunites than #2.

Logic isn't a strong point, is it?

We don't need him to be Trent Green. We only need him to be Mark Brunell and continue to do the things he did last season. With more options in the passing game it is safe to say he'll use those options.

You don't need him to be Trent Green, but you assume he's going to do something in terms of spreading it around that Green never did.

Befuddling.

 

[superpunk]

What is truly remarkable about Commander fans is that they are confident enough is Moss to raise him into the upper echelon after one outstanding year. Now, he is better than a proven WR in Owens, who has done it, year in and year out. Complete idiocy and not a one could have stated that prior to last season. Well, they could as they have a habit of doing that with all of their players.

Until last season, Moss was a tease who couldn't stay healthy and wasn't consistent and that's why he was traded for Lavernues Coles (who coincidentally was also the second coming at one time to Commander faithful).

I'd have Moss on that second tier, right beneath the real superstars, with guys like Smith, Burress, and the like. He has had two really good years, and some injury problems. In the vacuum of last year, he's top 5. I just find it remarkable that all these "amazing weapons" have been added / Moss is going to get the same number of balls / the other two WRs are going to play better than they ever have, even though their previous stints have been more prominent roles / and apparently Portis is also going to shatter the rushing record this year / even though Brunell isn't nearly as good as Green.

I'm expecting the Skins TOP this year to be something like 52 MPG.

 

[illone]

You don't need him to be Trent Green, but you assume he's going to do something in terms of spreading it around that Green never did.

Befuddling.

Not sure what you mean here. Green spread it around to four or five guys.

Kennison
Parker
Hall
Gonzo
Holmes/LJ

 

[Alexander]

I'd have Moss on that second tier, right beneath the real superstars, with guys like Smith, Burress, and the like.

Burress is a "real superstar"?

He has had two really good years, and some injury problems. In the vacuum of last year, he's top 5. I just find it remarkable that all these "amazing weapons" have been added / Moss is going to get the same number of balls / the other two WRs are going to play better than they ever have, even though their previous stints have been more prominent roles / and apparently Portis is also going to shatter the rushing record this year / even though Brunell isn't nearly as good as Green.

:laugh2:

It always works that way in the mind of the illogical. Nevermind consistency. Take the shining moments and extrapolate.

Green has been very durable. Brunell hasn't been. Brunell is another player who Commander fans were ready to hang in 2004, but since he was good for a stretch (but horrible in the last quarter), he's going to have a career year? In fact, better than anything he ever did in Jacksonville so I am told.

 

[illone]

I'd have Moss on that second tier, right beneath the real superstars, with guys like Smith, Burress, and the like. He has had two really good years, and some injury problems. In the vacuum of last year, he's top 5. I just find it remarkable that all these "amazing weapons" have been added / Moss is going to get the same number of balls / the other two WRs are going to play better than they ever have, even though their previous stints have been more prominent roles / and apparently Portis is also going to shatter the rushing record this year / even though Brunell isn't nearly as good as Green.

I'm expecting the Skins TOP this year to be something like 52 MPG.

This is laughable. You think Burress is better than Moss?

HAHAHAHA!

Moss already has a better YPC and more scores with less time in the league.

 

[superpunk]

Not sure what you mean here. Green spread it around to four or five guys.

Kennison
Parker
Hall
Gonzo
Holmes/LJ

And Kennison caught 70, and Parker and Hall caught 40 each, right?

Lord......

 

[superpunk]

Burress is a "real superstar"?

No. I said I'd put him, Moss, and Smith at that level right under the real superstars.

 

[superpunk]

This is laughable. You think Burress is better than Moss?

Mind sharing with me where I said that, Miss Cleo?

 

[illone]

Mind sharing with me where I said that, Miss Cleo?

Just re-read your post. At first it sounded like you were saying he was below Smith and Burress.

Still a interesting post. Who are the 'real' superstars, then?

 

[illone]

And Kennison caught 70, and Parker and Hall caught 40 each, right?

Lord......

You're just missing my points all together and spinning anything I post as you would like to.

 

[sacase]

Just re-read your post. At first it sounded like you were saying he was below Smith and Burress.

Still a interesting post. Who are the 'real' superstars, then?

Reading comprehension just isn't your strong suit.

I'd have Moss on that second tier, right beneath the real superstars, with guys like Smith, Burress, and the like. He has had two really good years, and some injury problems. In the vacuum of last year, he's top 5. I just find it remarkable that all these "amazing weapons" have been added / Moss is going to get the same number of balls / the other two WRs are going to play better than they ever have, even though their previous stints have been more prominent roles / and apparently Portis is also going to shatter the rushing record this year / even though Brunell isn't nearly as good as Green.

Must be a product of the DC school system.

 

[superpunk]

Just re-read your post. At first it sounded like you were saying he was below Smith and Burress.

Still a interesting post. Who are the 'real' superstars, then?

Do you really have to ask?

TO, Harrison, Randy Moss, Chad Johnson, Holt, Ward - you know, guys who have been kicking *** and taking names for more than just a year or so.