Anyone think Deion was overrated

[Jarv]

I have always claimed that Deion was overrated. Not that he wasn't a great cover CB or return man but that the myths about him, that he shut down half the field or was the greatest cover CB of all time, were simply not true.

I remember when we played against the Jags one year and Brunell was routinely completing long passes to Jimmie Smith and Keenan McCardell against Deion. Randy Moss ate Deion alive on the few occasions when Deion didn't suddenly develop an injury when we were playing the Vikings. Aikman & Irvin didn't have any trouble completing passes against him. Essentially, he was good against lesser QBs and WRs but could be beaten when facing the top tier guys at those positions.

I watched the best DBs to ever play the game from the early 60s through to today and Deion isn't among the top-5 and would have a tough time breaking into the top-10 IMO. Guys like Mike Haynes, Herb Adderley, Lem Barney, Mel Renfro, Dick Lane, Darrell Green, Lester Hayes, and a couple of others were better all-around CBs and at least as good or better at coverage.

His unwillingness to tackle was a huge deficit IMO. Playing CB is more than just being able to break on the ball, you have to be willing and able to tackle well.

Deion might have had the best closing speed of any player in NFL history but that was pretty much what he relied on.

This !

Thanks thumper, it takes a fellow old school guy to agree with how I felt also. You put it in better words than I ever could...

The article posted above, that I would quote the whole thing, also gives a perspective on how he blow off Mike, the strength coach, Campo as the D-coordinator and would watch film...etc. Also, when he refused to go into the defensive huddle and then K. Smith started doing the same...Bla. I'll take Newman and Jenkins on my team over Sanders anytime.

 

[THUMPER]

This !

Thanks thumper, it takes a fellow old school guy to agree with how I felt also. You put it in better words than I ever could...

The article posted above, that I would quote the whole thing, also gives a perspective on how he blow off Mike, the strength coach, Campo as the D-coordinator and would watch film...etc. Also, when he refused to go into the defensive huddle and then K. Smith started doing the same...Bla. I'll take Newman and Jenkins on my team over Sanders anytime.

So I'm not alone in my insanity! :laugh2:

 

[jterrell]

Then you remember some things incorrectly.

In that 1997 game against the Jags, Brunell was not routinely beating Deion deep. Brunell went 21 of 31 for 242 yards with 3 TDs and 1 INT. I remember a long pass completion to McCardell who made a circus catch. That happens. McCardell got most of his 120 yards on that one play. Jimmy Smith finished with 2 receptions for 13 yards. Yes, he got beat, but it was hardly routine on that day.

I don't remember Deion going up against Randy Moss that much while playing for Dallas. They usually locked Deion up with Cris Carter and Carter would do very little against Deion.

Deion spent most of the 1994 championship game in single coverage against Alvin Harper who was a non-factor that game.

Every corner gets beat. That goes with playing the position. It is especially true when you go up against a great receiver such as Irvin and have one of the most accurate passers in league history like Aikman throwing the ball. Those guys are going to win some battles, too.

You can apply the overrated tag to just about everyone depending on how you define overrated. Deion was darn good. I doubt many of his coaches or teammates worried about what he brought to the field on game day. I think Deion is easily a top 5 CB in NFL history. I hated his attitude and persona, but the guy could cover.

Deion was 31 years old when Randy Moss came into the league and he was dealing with turf toe. Randy Moss and Cris Carter killed us in 1998 but that is primarily because Deion was out injured. In 1999 Moss had 6 catches for 90+ yards and 2 TDs but the Vikings were held to 17 less points than they had been the year prior. That was a 6 win Dallas team and Deion's last year of meaningful football. After that he was an overpriced spare in Washington and Baltimore as you'd expect from a 30-something CB.

As best I can tell 1999 is the ONE and only time Deion Sanders played against Randy Moss.

 

[Jarv]

So I'm not alone in my insanity! :laugh2:

Yeah, people just say he had talent and was fast, so those are positives, they don't look at the negatives like not tackling, not blending with the team in workouts, team meeting, etc. Young players looking at him would think, I don't have to watch film or workout since Deion doesn't.

Its like the Barry Sanders vs Emmit argument, except in this case since Deion played for us, they have their rose colored glasses on. Deion was flashy, so uh cool like Barry, right.

 

[hardcorebob]

For more perspective:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=armmKMwfUtk

Pay attention for the tidbit at the end too.

His impact on special teams was also VERY import as well. I remember seeing him run back a punt return against the Bears in Texas Stadium in the 90's. He was so fast and shut down his side of the field like it didn't even exist.

While he was a complete diva a la TO, he can't be denied as one of the top five CB's.

 

[jazzcat22]

Not overrated at all. DB's, even the best are going to give up plays. Irvin did beat him consistently. Which attributes to just how good Irvin really was.

 

[Tenkamenin]

Deion hands down was the greatest cover corner of all time.

Deion was also a wicked punt returner, they would flat out not punt the ball to the guy. Even the best punt returners in the game today get more of an opportunity to return a punt then Deion did.


In 1991 Deion was just a sophmore corner, he was definitely a little rough around the edges and could get beat from time to time.

From 1994-1998 Deion was unreal, I remember the Falcolns and 49ers agame in 1994 where Deion and Andre Rison got in a little scuffle, and Chandler had the nerve on the next play to go after PRIMETIME and Deion took it all the way home.

I can vividly recall the Monday Night Game against the Giants in 1998 where Deion had 3 TD's I think it was 2 punt returns and an interception. I remember him high stepping faster than the defenders chasing him.

The guy was simply amazing, one of the most entertaining guys to watch on the field.

 

[JBond]

No. Absolutely not. He's rated as the best cover corner of all time, and that's exactly what he is. Reasonable people can certainly criticize the manner in which he sometimes conducted himself, but the talent is undeniable.

You are correct sir. He was the best cover corner to ever strap on a helmet. I will never forget his Monday night game against the giants when he single handily crushed them with big play after big play. He had an int a punt return a kick return and a huge catch as well as shutting down his side of the field as he usually did. That was an amazing performance.

 

[Chuck 54]

ummm...hard to over-rate the best CB of all time, a guy who forced teams to punt the ball out of bounds on their own side of the 50.

NOPE

 

[THUMPER]

ummm...hard to over-rate the best CB of all time, a guy who forced teams to punt the ball out of bounds on their own side of the 50.

NOPE

What does his punt return ability have to do with being a CB?

 

[theebs]

Not sure how that can be. The 1992 Cowboys are a top 10 team of all-time unquestionably but in that game against the Falcs where we trounced them we scored 3 passing TDs and had only 239 yards passing. The passing TDs went to Kelvin Martin, Alvin Harper and Jay Novacek. At worst Deion gave up the one TD reception.

Irvin had 6 for 89 yards and Harper 3 for 53.

I don't see how anyone could argue we attacked anyone.

Dallas was good enough not to have to shy away from anyone but the stats are the stats and our guys had no more than average days. Wade Wilson on the other side passed for 100 more yards than Aikman. Emmitt had 174 yards rushing and 2 TDs.

Go watch the game, he reapeatedly was beaten, then he missed a ton of tackles and he took all his frustration out on a table on the sideline.

its one of my favorite games, monday night at atlanta making deion look stupid.

 

[dallascowboyfanboy]

He was definitely as good as they make him out to be. You know how many corners could stop Irvin? Hint: hardly anyone. Deion was the one corner that could do that.

You realize we aired the hell out of the ball when Irvin went for those 14 catches right? Didn't really have a choice since we were down so early.

Make no mistake about it, no one in the game today compares to Deion. Deion used to shut down an entire side of the field, and then when the opposing QB would have to take a chance, #21 would jump in front of the receiver and he was gone. There was no catching him.

Maybe as time as gone on people forget he wasn't a great tackler, but how great do you need to be at tackling if the ball is never thrown your way?

I'd go back and get ahold of some game tapes and not base your opinion off of 2 games.

All of the NFC East covered Irvin very well for the most part, Darrell Green, Eric Allen, Aeneas Williams, even Jason Sehorn. Irvin was bigger and more physical and knew how to push off to get separation without the refs catching him do it. Jerry Rice was the best pusher-offers in the history of the game. The refs rarely called him for offensive P.I either.

 

[THUMPER]

All of the NFC East covered Irvin very well for the most part, Darrell Green, Eric Allen, Aeneas Williams, even Jason Sehorn. Irvin was bigger and more physical and knew how to push off to get separation without the refs catching him do it. Jerry Rice was the best pusher-offers in the history of the game. The refs rarely called him for offensive P.I either.

Don't forget Bobby Taylor of the Eagles, he played Irvin better than anyone. His size, 6'3" 215, caused Irvin a lot of problems. He wasn't that good against other WRs with more speed but against the bigger, physical types he did well.

Rice definitely benefited from the "Jordan Rule".

 

[dallascowboyfanboy]

Don't forget Bobby Taylor of the Eagles, he played Irvin better than anyone. His size, 6'3" 215, caused Irvin a lot of problems. He wasn't that good against other WRs with more speed but against the bigger, physical types he did well.

Rice definitely benefited from the "Jordan Rule".

Thanks for reminding me of Taylor, Thumper, I was going to include him too but for some reason I thought he was a WR.

 

[Apollo Creed]

Deion not tackling may not be 'manly' but think about it, do you want your 35 million dollar corner busting his *** to stop a 5 yard sweep - or completely erasing his man from his side of the field for 16 games.

It was a business decision may be a selfish quote but it made total sense.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Deion not tackling may not be 'manly' but think about it, do you want your 35 million dollar corner busting his *** to stop a 5 yard sweep - or completely erasing his man from his side of the field for 16 games.

As he said himself... How about both?

 

[Apollo Creed]

As he said himself... How about both?

Can't have your cake and eat it too. Greatest cover corner of all time, statistically 4 times better than any corner to ever play the game - I'll trade poor run defense for erasing half the field and all the TDs he scored on special teams.

Its kinda like saying Troy Aikman is a 3 time super bowl winner, great leader, high character guy, strong arm, surgically accurate, cerebral player, one of the best practice players of all time - but he wasn't that mobile outside the pocket.

 

[jterrell]

Deion not tackling may not be 'manly' but think about it, do you want your 35 million dollar corner busting his *** to stop a 5 yard sweep - or completely erasing his man from his side of the field for 16 games.

It was a business decision may be a selfish quote but it made total sense.

No doubt.
You can look at his career stats and see when he started making that decision.

The year before he hit free agency for the first time.
His 2nd to last year in ATL he had 66 tackles, then he saw free agency in the foreground and never topped 50 tackles again.

Deion was a very big bodied CB at the time and was a pretty good tackler early on.

 

[CF74]

good cover corner but a sissy (did not take on blockers and avoided tackles)-- I say he's overrated

Those were just bidness decisions..

 

[jterrell]

All of the NFC East covered Irvin very well for the most part, Darrell Green, Eric Allen, Aeneas Williams, even Jason Sehorn. Irvin was bigger and more physical and knew how to push off to get separation without the refs catching him do it. Jerry Rice was the best pusher-offers in the history of the game. The refs rarely called him for offensive P.I either.

Irvin torched Darrell Green and was about the only guy to do so. Aeneas and Bobby Taylor played him well because they could handle his size.

Rice wasn't a bad push off guy ... he ran the WCO.... good grief.

He caught balls on the move... totally different M.O. from Irvin who would create space with his body and come back to the football so often. Rice and Irvin both ran nearly perfect routes which is what sets apart great receivers from good ones. Rice played in free space but Irvin created enough space to operate even when blanketed.