ARTICLE: Former Cowboy Mel Renfro has advice for S Roy Williams

[NextGenBoys]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Roy Williams is the Vince Carter of the NFL.

And that's not meant as a compliment (Even if VC is my favorite player)

 

[AdamJT13]

Now I'd like to know how you know the "low" number of completions he gives up, the "low" completion percentage he gives up, what is this like a ERA for SS's

They're tracked by STATS LLC, which is the premium statistical service used by many NFL teams, the networks and a lot of other major media outlets. Football Outsiders and ESPN's K.C. Joyner track similar stats.

and where are all these interceptions at?

You can find interception stats at almost any major sports site on the Web. NFL.com, for one.

 

[AdamJT13]

Also I find it hard to believe that you've looked at every horse collar Williams has committed, so you've lost some credibility IMO.

Why is that hard to believe? Don't you watch all of the Cowboys' games? Not only do I watch all of them, I record them, re-watch them and chart various things that happen during them.

If you ever get around to citing one single example of anything you've claimed, I can pull out the tape and watch that play. But I've got a hunch you'll never come up with one.

Why do you think there is a scheme in place to play Roy at LB and put a coverage player at SS?? Why would Wade do something like that?

If you had been paying attention, you'd know exactly why, because our head coach and our defensive coordinator have explained why.

Oh, that's right, you don't believe anything the coaches say. Carry on in your ignorance.

Dude it's pointless....You win..... Roy is the best shutdown SS in the league....He's always in a good position, and he is no liability in space....He's the best rootin tootin tackler I've ever seen....It's good to see that he's been rewarded for that by having a rule named after him......Wow we've got our own "hack-a-Shaq"........[/B]

And now you're back to the ridiculous exaggerations. Are you ever going to come up with something new? Or something relevant?

 

[AdamJT13]

It's amazing how so many people get caught up in stats....Stats are sometimes misleading, for example if a defensive player has 20 tackles in one game, it's usually a result of that team being pathetic on defense, but at the end of the year it's pointed out as........"so and so had a spectacular season, he had 320 total tackles"....etc.

And none of that has anything to do with any stats posted in this thread.

Maybe you can explain how Roy allowing a low number of completions and a very low completion percentage last season can be misleading -- especially when you claim that opposing coaches target him because he's a liability in coverage.

Or explain how Roy leading all starting safeties in interceptions, leading all safeties in takeaways and having one of the highest percentages of passes defended last season can be misleading.

 

[AdamJT13]

These guys who come on here and act like Roy is one of the greatest safetys in the last 10 or 20 years

Nobody has claimed that.

can't tell me that he does put in extra work or make extra effort to be great

Do you know who was the first player on the team to report to offseason workouts each day?

especially when he indirectly blames his teammates when he gets burned, like he was trying to cover for them.

Which is exactly what his coach, teammates and former teammates said, too. Oh, wait, they're ALL lying, right?

 

[Tusan_Homichi]

Wow. Adam's cleaning up this morning.

Seriously though guys. Did you ever think that maybe you're LOOKING for things wrong with Roy because he struggled a bit a couple of years ago and now anything that even remotely looks like he might be involved, it's immediately his fault? I think we can pinpoint it back to the Commanders game a couple of years back when he was chasing on two deep throws that ended up costing us the game in the 4th quarter. After that, anytime you see him running behind a receiver, it's automatically his guy.

Yes, occasionally he gives up a pass or looks like he gets his feet twisted up under him, but those times are rare and are getting rarer. He has looked better and better each week this season. My only issue with Roy this year is it seems like he's not wrapping up as well as I'd like and his right arm, he tends to drag it. That might be injury though. I'm not sure.

I still think we need to draft a good young FS next year though. I'm not sure we'll ever find another Darren Woodson, but I'd sure like to try.

 

[Ratmatt]

Man, if I were Roy Williams I would take exception to Mel publically critiquing my play. If he has advise, talk to me privately. I find that just a bit disrespectful.

Williams shouldn't take everything so personally,and listen to Renfro.Renfro is a hall of famer,and a damm good cover man.Williams flat out sucks in coverage.

 

[Rack]

Williams shouldn't take everything so personally,and listen to Renfro.Renfro is a hall of famer,and a damm good cover man.Williams flat out sucks in coverage.

You flat out suck at posting facts.

 

[zrinkill]

Wow. Adam's cleaning up this morning.

Yup ..... Adam pretty much owns these guys at every turn.

Adam uses facts to back up his arguments.

dccowboy and supercowboy just make up stuff as they go along and call people "homers" if they do not agree that Roy sucks.

 

[DallasEast]

The guy keeps wanting examples, but IMO all he has to do is pay attention to the game which is why I didn't return that message.........

Why is that hard to believe? Don't you watch all of the Cowboys' games? Not only do I watch all of them, I record them, re-watch them and chart various things that happen during them.

If you ever get around to citing one single example of anything you've claimed, I can pull out the tape and watch that play. But I've got a hunch you'll never come up with one.

On one hand, I read where the first guy can't even give a single valid example to support his argument.

Cool, but on the other hand, I both read and know that the second guy has access to recorded games and volumes of stats, etc., critiques them, and provides sound observations based upon his stored references.

Hmmm.

My advice to the first guy:

:eekmouse: RUN FORREST RUN!!!

Personally, I don't believe that Renfro really knew to what extreme degree his comments would be misconstrued by those who don't like Roy Williams' coverage abilities as the strong safety of the Dallas Cowboys. But, then again, why would he even care?

 

[Biggems]

I do know this, when Woodson was here, Roy was hardly ever out of position. He was also a game changer and all over the place. Then, Woodson goes down, and to this day, we have yet to actually replace him sufficiently. So, guess who has to not only cover up our deficiencies at CB over the last several years, but also our deficiencies at FS? ROY WILLIAMS.

He has often been out of position because he is trying to do everything. He is trying to rush the passer, stop the run, cover the TE or RB out of the backfield, stop the pass, create turnovers, lay big hits, and cover-up with the CB or FS misses their assignments in coverage.

He makes a lot of mistakes, and misplays a lot of balls, and even displays poor tackling technique at times. However, he also lays the wood on people, creates turnovers (ints and fumbles), and even scores touchdowns occasionally. He is often assisting on tackles or right there near the ball at the end of the play.

Once Henry comes back healthy, and with the improved play of Reeves, I see Roy becoming a much more dominant player. He will no longer have to worry about our suckage at CB, cause we will have 3 very good ones in Newman, Henry, and Reeves. Hamlin has been adequate at FS, and Watkins is improving with every game. So Roy will be able to do the things he did his first 3 years in the league, bring the havoc all over the field.

 

[Royal Laegotti]

They're tracked by STATS LLC, which is the premium statistical service used by many NFL teams, the networks and a lot of other major media outlets. Football Outsiders and ESPN's K.C. Joyner track similar stats.

Well lets see the numbers, bring'em up! I want to see this number of completions he gives up and the completion % he gives up.

You can find interception stats at almost any major sports site on the Web. NFL.com, for one.

No kidding He's got 2 int. and I know one of them came against Miami once the game was already decided, wow.

 

[Hostile]

Well lets see the numbers, bring'em up! I want to see this number of completions he gives up and the completion % he gives up.



No kidding He's got 2 int. and I know one of them came against Miami once the game was already decided, wow.

I have never understood the "logic" of this comment.

 

[JonJon]

What troubles me about Roy is that whenever a QB begins to throw deep, you already know the pass will be completed, you know that Roy will be back there in coverage, and you know that Roy will be pointing fingers at the end of the play. At some point, he has to realize that he is (or at least a part of) the problem. I honestly think that Roy does not take his own conditioning and training seriously. You would think that someone with this type of criticism would at some point try to correct his own problems. IF he were to get serious and attack his agility and foot work problems, there is no doubt that he would be one of the top safeties in the league. What he needs to do is shed about 10-15 pounds, work on his agility, his footwork, backpedaling, tracking the ball in the air, wrapping up on tackles, and how to rotate his pointed finger on blown coverage assignments 180 degrees...

 

[dcowboysfan76]

Yup ..... Adam pretty much owns these guys at every turn.

Adam uses facts to back up his arguments.

dccowboy and supercowboy just make up stuff as they go along and call people "homers" if they do not agree that Roy sucks.

It's amazing how you follow your own act Adam....nevertheless what do you own.....Make stuff up? No one has said Roy sucked....that hasn't come out of my mouth.....I've given examples...Roy in space versus the Giants...both TD's could've been avoided if Roy had better coverage skills....

Roy's positioning with the horse collar tackle.....See any of the following:

The play against Calico
The play against Musa Smith

 

[superpunk]

I have never understood the "logic" of this comment.

Try removing your brain - if you live through the process, read the comment again.

 

[dcowboysfan76]

On one hand, I read where the first guy can't even give a single valid example to support his argument.

Cool, but on the other hand, I both read and know that the second guy has access to recorded games and volumes of stats, etc., critiques them, and provides sound observations based upon his stored references.

Hmmm.

My advice to the first guy:

:eekmouse: RUN FORREST RUN!!!

Personally, I don't believe that Renfro really knew to what extreme degree his comments would be misconstrued by those who don't like Roy Williams' coverage abilities as the strong safety of the Dallas Cowboys. But, then again, why would he even care?

Run from what....anybody who has at least a half of a brain can see that Roy has problems in coverage...Go back to the Skins game last year....go back to the Seahawks game last year....Also in regards to his tackling.....Look at the third down play in the playoffs where he had a chance to stop Alexander....Look at the tackle against the Bears this year on Desmond Clark....He was like richochet rabbit........

Also if anyone that is recording games to plot stats and charts and graphs and is not getting paid to do it.....needs a life.......Although we know it is not true......How would you know it to be? Anyone can go and pull stats, but footage from every game that Roy has played in the pros?? Please!!! Not to mention I've given examples if you've followed the thread.......so don't suck up to a hiccup.....Just be honest with yourself........Roy is not good in Man to Man coverage.....he's not good on the deep ball.......he's not good in space....The SS is supposed to be the rightfielder of football..........Roy is not a good rightfielder.......He's average, and will be until he improves his coverage skills.............

 

[CowboyJeff]

A 1996 Hall-of-Fame inductee, Mel Renfro started out as a safety and finished as a cornerback with the Dallas Cowboys.

Current Cowboys safety Roy Williams has been an all-pro safety, but struggles as a cover man. Williams gets beat deep, and beat often.

Renfro's advice for Williams:

"I've watched him very closely. He has a problem with his footwork. He has a problem with finding the ball in the air, especially on the deep pass.

"I think someone just needs to work with him on that on an individual basis. Get him out there and run with him sideline to sideline; have a quarterback throw the ball; have receivers run down the field. His lack of ability to find the football has hurt him and as a result has hurt the Cowboys.

"You might want to have him add a few pounds and play a linebacker position, but I don't know if that's the answer. Working on his quickness and footwork and his ability to find the ball in the air would make a difference.”

LINK

I have a hard time disagreeing with anything Mel said.

 

[JackMagist]

n/m didn't realize this thread was 16 pages long

 

[dcowboysfan76]

I have never understood the "logic" of this comment.

IMO, I think that he's saying statistics are good, but they don't display the unmeasurables and intangibles........