Atlanta Braves thread!!!

[tko112204]

Yet you don't see cleanup hitters and 8 hole hitters used interchangably in lineups throughout the league.. wonder why that is? Because alot of cleanup hitters are exactly that, pure power guys who don't hit for the greatest averages.

Who's more likely to drive the ball deep and drive in runs.. Raul Ibanez or Carlos Ruiz?

That's a trick question.

Ruiz hits behind Ibanez. How's he supposed to drive in runs if no one is ever on base?

Of course 8 hitters and 3 hitters aren't used interchangeably. One is a better hitter than another. But not because they get RBIs. Because they have better numbers in the important categories... OBP and SLG and isolated power. RBIs are meaningless in individual talent analysis because they are entirely dependent on the players someone plays with.

I don't know how else to explain it to you. Even if Howard has 140 RBIs this year, it won't mean he had a good season. It will mean he had a lot of runners on base while he was batting this season.

 

[tko112204]

Just realized DIAF said the same thing I did in response to Roy.

Except he probably wasn't drunk, hence the more articulate post.

 

[DIAF]

Yet you don't see cleanup hitters and 8 hole hitters used interchangably in lineups throughout the league.. wonder why that is? Because alot of cleanup hitters are exactly that, pure power guys who don't hit for the greatest averages.

Who's more likely to drive the ball deep and drive in runs.. Raul Ibanez or Carlos Ruiz?

Do you realize you just said the EXACT SAME THING I just said?

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Do you realize you just said the EXACT SAME THING I just said?

Its not the same thing, because first you said the only difference between the cleanup hitter and 8 hole hitter is oppertunity, which is wrong.

Then you said Howard is the better hitter, not just that he has alot of power, which again is wrong.

Ruiz has a better average and a better OBP as well.. so its not that Howard is a better hitter, its that he has more power and is more likely to produce more runs with his hits.

 

[Risen Star]

I'm having a hard time understanding how RBIs is a meaningless stat.

Howard's gonna knock in about 130 of em this year. He leads the NL. In an offense that has ranked in the teens in runs scored all season.

How is that not indicative of great ability? Or maybe I'm just not understanding the other side here.

 

[DIAF]

Its not the same thing, because first you said the only difference between the cleanup hitter and 8 hole hitter is oppertunity, which is wrong.

Then you said Howard is the better hitter, not just that he has alot of power, which again is wrong.

Ruiz has a better average and a better OBP as well.. so its not that Howard is a better hitter, its that he has more power and is more likely to produce more runs with his hits.

Are you doing this on purpose? Or are you really having this much trouble sorting it all out?

Its not the same thing, because first you said the only difference between the cleanup hitter and 8 hole hitter is oppertunity, which is wrong.

No, THIS is what I said.

If you have a .250 hitter with decent power and 3 guys who excel at getting on base hitting in front of him, guess what, he's going to collect RBIs. But he's still the same hitter if you bat him 4th or 8th. The only thing separating the two situations is opportunity.

A hypothetical hitter is the same hitter no matter where you bat him in the lineup. I did NOT compare a 4th place and an 8th place hitter.

Then you said Howard is the better hitter, not just that he has alot of power, which again is wrong.

I said nothing about Howard being a better hitter than Ruiz. Another poster addressed Howard/Ruiz, not me. But, since power is a component of the stats we are talking about (OPS), then yes, Howard is a better hitter than Ruiz.

Ruiz has a better average and a better OBP as well.. so its not that Howard is a better hitter, its that he has more power and is more likely to produce more runs with his hits.

THIS IS WHAT WE HAVE BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG (with OPS)

 

[DIAF]

I'm having a hard time understanding how RBIs is a meaningless stat.

Howard's gonna knock in about 130 of em this year. He leads the NL. In an offense that has ranked in the teens in runs scored all season.

How is that not indicative of great ability? Or maybe I'm just not understanding the other side here.

It's meaningless when talking and comparing individual players. Because RBI is much like "runs"...it doesn't come about by any individual effort, it is a team statistic. In order to collect RBIs, you need your teammates in front of you to get on base unless you plan on just hitting solo homers all the time. So in that case, it's absolutely meaningless when comparing player performance against another. That's why OPS is a much better stat for that. RBI means your teammates are better at getting on base that the other guy's teammates.

Ryan Howard's OPS is a better stat that is indicative of great ability. If you put his .831 OPS in the 4-hole in the Astros lineup, he's still an .831 OPS hitter. However, there's no way possible he'd still have 87 RBI.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

It's meaningless when talking and comparing individual players. Because RBI is much like "runs"...it doesn't come about by any individual effort, it is a team statistic. In order to collect RBIs, you need your teammates in front of you to get on base unless you plan on just hitting solo homers all the time. So in that case, it's absolutely meaningless when comparing player performance against another. That's why OPS is a much better stat for that. RBI means your teammates are better at getting on base that the other guy's teammates.

Ryan Howard's OPS is a better stat that is indicative of great ability. If you put his .831 OPS in the 4-hole in the Astros lineup, he's still an .831 OPS hitter. However, there's no way possible he'd still have 87 RBI.

Im pretty sure he'd have close to 87 RBI, if not more, considering their leadoff hitter was hitting over .300 and ours has been crapping around the .250 mark all season.

 

[tko112204]

Im pretty sure he'd have close to 87 RBI, if not more, considering their leadoff hitter was hitting over .300 and ours has been crapping around the .250 mark all season.

Hahahahahaha. This is awesome.

 

[CowboyDan]

In regards to the Phillies position players, slump is code for old and declining.

The Phillies' slump continues. :laugh2: 9 games up and counting.

 

[DIAF]

I can really only think of two key players on the Phillies where "old and declining" applies - ibanez and oswalt. People are lumping Howard into that list, but he's only 31.

 

[DIAF]

haha, a hit in his final at-bat to extend Uggla's streak to 28 games. This is one of the longer streaks I can remember from the last 20 years or so. Didn't Jimmy Rollins have like a 40 game hit streak a few years back?

 

[casmith07]

That's rough. You would think a guy who's been in the bigs as long as he has would be able to make adjustments. Maybe he's just getting old and losing it.

For the better part of two seasons now. Held on to him too long.

 

[Patton]

The Phillies' slump continues. :laugh2: 9 games up and counting.

There's always the wildcard.

 

[Risen Star]

haha, a hit in his final at-bat to extend Uggla's streak to 28 games. This is one of the longer streaks I can remember from the last 20 years or so. Didn't Jimmy Rollins have like a 40 game hit streak a few years back?

Yeah, I think Rollins had one around 40 games a few years ago. Maybe mid-high 30s. I believe that was over two seasons.

 

[CowboyDan]

There's always the wildcard.

Yep. I really hope they get the wildcard spot. I love Phils v Braves and Phils v Giants series'. I'm looking forward to it.

 

[Risen Star]

Yep. I really hope they get the wildcard spot. I love Phils v Braves and Phils v Giants series'. I'm looking forward to it.

I have all the respect in the world for the Braves. Quality young team, tremendous pitching all across the board. They will be a hurdle the Phillies will have to clear in the postseason regardless of how many games up they are in the division.

The Giants are the Giants. If their pitching is hot and they get some timely hitting, they can steal a series from anybody. But I don't believe, player for player, that they are as good as the Phillies or Braves.

 

[Risen Star]

Uggla's hitting streak doesn't surprise me. His mendoza line start surprised me. He's too good not to be hitting.

 

[burntricersx]

Uggla's hitting streak doesn't surprise me. His mendoza line start surprised me. He's too good not to be hitting.

He's a career .250ish hitter but he's heating up at the right time. And he's quietly on pace to hit 30+ HRs which will lead the team, sadly.

 

[DIAF]

Nothing sad about it. If you looked at all of Dan's peripherals, you could see that it was a whole lotta bad luck. He wasn't really striking out any more than usual, he was still hitting for power, his BABIP was really low. He was hitting the ball, but just hitting it AT people. It was only a matter of time.