Atlanta Braves thread!!!

[CowboyDan]

Not sure. Hard choice. Either Venters or Hanson I guess. Venters is having an unreal season and has been the best reliever in baseball by a longshot. Hanson is leading the league in hits-per-9, striking out over a batter per, and a whip hovering around 1.

Alrighty then, since you're tied up between those two guys, let's take a look at the other guy you mentioned....the best position player on the Braves....Brian McCann. What makes Brian McCann numero uno on the squad?

 

[DIAF]

He's tops on the team in on-base % and slugging. 2nd in total bases and plays the most demanding position on the field. Leads the squad in homers. Doesn't strike out excessively. Prado is probably a close 2nd in terms of most valuable position player. Heyward is obviously the most talented, but he's been hurt for over a month.

 

[CowboyDan]

He's tops on the team in on-base % and slugging. 2nd in total bases and plays the most demanding position on the field. Leads the squad in homers. Doesn't strike out excessively. Prado is probably a close 2nd in terms of most valuable position player. Heyward is obviously the most talented, but he's been hurt for over a month.

Do you think it's mere coincidence that he's leading the team in batting average among everyday players and 2nd in rbi's, too?

Say what you will about averages and rbi's, but they are legit stats that give you an indication of a players production. I'm not knocking advanced stats, as I see their relevance, but I do not discount the picture presented by averages and rbi's, like you do.

 

[DIAF]

Do you think it's mere coincidence that he's leading the team in batting average among everyday players and 2nd in rbi's, too?

Say what you will about averages and rbi's, but they are legit stats that give you an indication of a players production. I'm not knocking advanced stats, as I see their relevance, but I do not discount the picture presented by averages and rbi's, like you do.

If the guys in front of you get on, and you get hits or advance the runners otherwise, you are going to get RBIs. Brian McCann has been hitting behind jordan schaefer, chipper jones, Jason Heyward, and Martin Prado most of the year, and they've all done a good job of getting on base this year when they've been healthy. 23 extra-base hits also helps when those are the guys hitting in front of you. 15 of his RBIs have come on his 9 home runs. Batting average is a component of OBP, which also takes into account walks. Therefore its a much better stat to use when judging a players' worth, and makes BA largely irrelevant by itself. I'd rather have a guy that hit .270 with an OBP of .350 than I would a .300 hitter with an OBP of .325.

A .260 hitter is a .260 hitter. The difference between him driving in 50 runs and 100 runs depends largely on how good the hitters in front of him are. You cant drive in guys that aren't on base.

 

[CowboyDan]

If the guys in front of you get on, and you get hits or advance the runners otherwise, you are going to get RBIs. Brian McCann has been hitting behind jordan schaefer, chipper jones, Jason Heyward, and Martin Prado most of the year, and they've all done a good job of getting on base this year when they've been healthy. 23 extra-base hits also helps when those are the guys hitting in front of you. 15 of his RBIs have come on his 9 home runs.

Who's arguing this? Obviously you don't get rbi's if you don't have runners on base or if you don't hit homeruns. But that's the thing.....you have to hit the ball and drive the runners in. You act like it's so easy a caveman could do it.

 

[DIAF]

Who's arguing this? Obviously you don't get rbi's if you don't have runners on base or if you don't hit homeruns. But that's the thing.....you have to hit the ball and drive the runners in. You act like it's so easy a caveman could do it.

Your pal Roy, for one. He's arguing that having a high average is the most important factor in run production, whereas I am arguing that the most important factor in run production is getting guys on base and into scoring position, and then doing "more" with your hits (slugging) as opposed to just getting more hits (batting average).

Although judging from his last post, his argument has sneakily morphed into one of power and on-base %...which is the same argument he kept telling me that I knew nothing about baseball for clinging to.

Like I said before, a .260 hitter that drives in runs and a .260 hitter that doesn't (assuming everything else is equal) drive in runs are separated by one thing: opportunity. RBI is largely a statistic of opportunity, dependent on far more than just the individual at the plate's ability to get a hit.

 

[CowboyDan]

Your pal Roy, for one. He's arguing that having a high average is the most important factor in run production, whereas I am arguing that the most important factor in run production is getting guys on base and into scoring position, and then doing "more" with your hits (slugging) as opposed to just getting more hits (batting average).

Although judging from his last post, his argument has sneakily morphed into one of power and on-base %...which is the same argument he kept telling me that I knew nothing about baseball for clinging to.

Like I said before, a .260 hitter that drives in runs and a .260 hitter that doesn't (assuming everything else is equal) drive in runs are separated by one thing: opportunity. RBI is largely a statistic of opportunity, dependent on far more than just the individual at the plate's ability to get a hit.

I have no problem with OBP. I have no problem with just using batting averages either, obviously.

As for your statement on RBI's being largely based on opportunity, I suggest that you have to show something in your ability to be placed in the lineup directly behind the tablesetters. In other words, you earn your opportunities.

 

[DIAF]

I have no problem with OBP. I have no problem with just using batting averages either, obviously.

As for your statement on RBI's being largely based on opportunity, I suggest that you have to show something in your ability to be placed in the lineup directly behind the tablesetters. In other words, you earn your opportunities.

That's why they place power guys behind tablesetters, dudes more likely to go for extra bases. You don't need to bat .300 or more to hit in the heart of the order, but you do need to have some kick in that bat.

 

[Temo]

Really excited to see Randal Delgado's debut today.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

This is amazing. Your argument went from "Batting average and RBI are the most important stats in baseball" to "getting on base and home runs (power/total bases) are the most important" which is essentially WHAT IVE BEEN SAYING THE WHOLE TIME about on base percentage/slugging...

hahaha.

but just for giggles, lets look at how important Batting Average really is in terms of knocking in runs.

12 of the top 20 RBI guys last year hit below .300, the often-cited threshold for a high batting average. Two of the top 3 guys, Arod and Jose Bautista, hit .270 or less. It's not about average; its about getting on base and hitting for power (extra bases vs. singles) that are most important.

Stats don't lie.

Temo; you are absolutely right. After this guy's last post, he's gotta be trolling. No use in arguing with a troll.

Where do you see me say HR's are the most important? Honestly its like talking to an infant.

Its not that hard to understand.. the guys who get the most hits consistently year in and year out (BA), and the guys who drive home the most runs year in and year out (RBI) are the ones most valuable in the MLB. This is proven by the fact that they command the biggest salaries and most attention on the FA market.

It only stands to reason that the guys with the highest batting averages are going to be guys with higher OBP's as well.

Get it yet?

:bang2:

 

[DIAF]

Where do you see me say HR's are the most important? Honestly its like talking to an infant.

Its not that hard to understand.. the guys who get the most hits consistently year in and year out (BA), and the guys who drive home the most runs year in and year out (RBI) are the ones most valuable in the MLB. This is proven by the fact that they command the biggest salaries and most attention on the FA market.

It only stands to reason that the guys with the highest batting averages are going to be guys with higher OBP's as well.

Get it yet?

:bang2:

I keep posting stats, and you keep saying "these guys are the most valuable" without any sort of data to quantify your assertion.

This argument is now over, seeing as how I am the only one that seems interested in participating in it.

Really excited to see Randal Delgado's debut today.

Heh, the only team I like more than the Braves are my hometown Rangers. Poor Randall Delgado, he's not ready and his first start is against the Rangers. Dude is gonna get shelled if the game doesnt get rained out tonight.

 

[Muhast]

Not sure. Hard choice. Either Venters or Hanson I guess. Venters is having an unreal season and has been the best reliever in baseball by a longshot. Hanson is leading the league in hits-per-9, striking out over a batter per, and a whip hovering around 1.

What about my boy Jair Jurrgens?

 

[DIAF]

What about my boy Jair Jurrgens?

Close, but overall I think Tommy's been more impressive.

 

[Muhast]

Close, but overall I think Tommy's been more impressive.

Jurrgens 8-3 2.13 ERA 49 k's 16 walks

Hanson 8-4 2.48 ERA 89 K's 30 walks

I think it's pretty close. A 2.13 ERA after 12 starts is pretty impressive. In May he went 6-1 with a 1.7 ERA.

Hanson is fanning more batters but Jair isn't giving up anything.

Pretty nice issue to have, trying to figure out which pitcher is better

 

[RoyTheHammer]

I keep posting stats, and you keep saying "these guys are the most valuable" without any sort of data to quantify your assertion.
.

Just because you choose to ignore information, does not mean it isn't there.

 

[DIAF]

Delgado did better than expected.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Delgado did better than expected.

Nice to set those dirt low expectations.. you won't ever be disappointed.

4 innings, 7 hits, 4 runs allowed, 3 earned.. nice line.

How's Uggla doing?

 

[cowboyeric8]

Go Rangers!

Should be a good series.

 

[DIAF]

Nice to set those dirt low expectations.. you won't ever be disappointed.

Considering that he's 21, was in AA, and is NOT READY for the major leagues yet and being forced into a spot start? I was expecting him to get absolutely bombed.

You suck as a troll. Maybe you should take classes.

You got a problem with me? PM me, or better yet, take it up with the mods. Stop ruining this thread for the other posters.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Considering that he's 21, was in AA, and is NOT READY for the major leagues yet and being forced into a spot start? I was expecting him to get absolutely bombed.

You suck as a troll. Maybe you should take classes.

You got a problem with me? PM me, or better yet, take it up with the mods. Stop ruining this thread for the other posters.

Im talking baseball.. you think im trolling because i don't like the Braves? This isn't a Braves board, Mr. "can't wait for Romo to leave".

Get over yourself.

They wouldn't have brought him up if they didn't think he could help the team in a spot start. I'm sure they have other options they could have gone to. He pitched a bad game.