Bail on this backfield, asap

[Idgit]

You are dreaming if you think there is anything more to Weedon then what we have seen so far. That is all there is and it is not enough. We are LOSING with him. Might as well take a chance on Cassel.

I'm not sure that there's much more to Weeden, though I was impressed with how he handled the empty sets this week. Weren't you? I think Broaddus (?) was right in that spreading the receivers out is more comfortable for him given the offenses he ran in college. It makes the reads easier for him a bit, and if there are a lot of receiving options, it limits some of what defenses can do in doubling the coverages. One thing our OL has done a good job of this season generally is with pass protection, and I don't care if Weeden gets clobbered. So I'd run it and see if he can continue to make decent decisions about where to go with the ball. If he can't, we can always go back to the dink and dunk.

And you're dreaming if you think we're losing because of the backup QB play. I know Weeden's everybody's favorite pinata, but he's done exactly what we've asked of him in all three games this season. He hasn't been the problem. He needs running support and he needs better defensive support. The running support isn't reasonable to expect until we move the ball downfield (hence the empty set argument, above), but even with that, our WRs aren't guys who can really beat teams downfield easily. Pretty much the only fix I see is to tackle better for the full game and to actually take the ball away when it hits you in the hands or not to get penalties when you finally do get a turnover. We've been in both of these last two games, and in neither of them were we able to stop the other team when we needed a stop. Expecting the defense to be adequate makes more sense than expecting Weeden to be better than he has been already.

Matt Cassel in week 2 in this offense with no downfield weapons and no defensive support is not the answer.

 

[burmafrd]

I'm not sure that there's much more to Weeden, though I was impressed with how he handled the empty sets this week. Weren't you? I think Broaddus (?) was right in that spreading the receivers out is more comfortable for him given the offenses he ran in college. It makes the reads easier for him a bit, and if there are a lot of receiving options, it limits some of what defenses can do in doubling the coverages. One thing our OL has done a good job of this season generally is with pass protection, and I don't care if Weeden gets clobbered. So I'd run it and see if he can continue to make decent decisions about where to go with the ball. If he can't, we can always go back to the dink and dunk.

And you're dreaming if you think we're losing because of the backup QB play. I know Weeden's everybody's favorite pinata, but he's done exactly what we've asked of him in all three games this season. He hasn't been the problem. He needs running support and he needs better defensive support. The running support isn't reasonable to expect until we move the ball downfield (hence the empty set argument, above), but even with that, our WRs aren't guys who can really beat teams downfield easily. Pretty much the only fix I see is to tackle better for the full game and to actually take the ball away when it hits you in the hands or not to get penalties when you finally do get a turnover. We've been in both of these last two games, and in neither of them were we able to stop the other team when we needed a stop. Expecting the defense to be adequate makes more sense than expecting Weeden to be better than he has been already.

Matt Cassel in week 2 in this offense with no downfield weapons and no defensive support is not the answer.

you seem to have blinders on as regards Weedon. Bottom line is that he is not enough. We need more and you are dreaming if you think there is more in him.

 

[Idgit]

you seem to have blinders on as regards Weedon. Bottom line is that he is not enough. We need more and you are dreaming if you think there is more in him.

Not sure how you're getting that. He's a very limited player and I've been careful to keep that in context. If you can't recognize that he did have success with the empty set last weekend, perhaps you're the one with the blinders on. As I said, it worked, and we need more of it, so I see no reason not to try it.

We actually don't *need* more at QB. We need more everywhere else. Which is good, since we have zero options for getting us more at QB right now. Brandon Weeden is our best shot, and he's a very limited player. If we're going to win, it's going to be with better tackling and more takeaways and some body on offense or STs giving us a big play or two where we don't expect it.

 

[Blackspider214]

And I agree with the 4 wins…they just let the two easy ones get away, going to hard to come up with 4 now.

How is the Falcons an easy one yet you call the Giants and Eagles hard ones?

 

[burmafrd]

Not sure how you're getting that. He's a very limited player and I've been careful to keep that in context. If you can't recognize that he did have success with the empty set last weekend, perhaps you're the one with the blinders on. As I said, it worked, and we need more of it, so I see no reason not to try it.

We actually don't *need* more at QB. We need more everywhere else. Which is good, since we have zero options for getting us more at QB right now. Brandon Weeden is our best shot, and he's a very limited player. If we're going to win, it's going to be with better tackling and more takeaways and some body on offense or STs giving us a big play or two where we don't expect it.

and you are completely wrong that we don't need more at QB. That is what I meant about your blinders.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

It takes a special kind of stupid to reach over a pile backwards with a football on 1st-and-goal from the 1-yard line. You can't teach, or un-teach, that level of abject stupidity.

Likewise, stepping up in the pocket is instinctual for a real NFL quarterback who genuinely wants to make a play and has his eyes downfield. You can't un-coach fear from a fearful quarterback, who will run scared out of the back of a perfect pocket most every time.

I fear coaching insanity will continue to play Weeden and Randle, hoping for different. And you know the definition of insanity.

The fix for this defense is two-fold. First, dudes need to return, a la Hardy, Gregory, McClain, and Lee. Second, this offense has to show some teeth and stop gumming its way down the field on hope and prayer.

Dunbar's injury made an otherwise easy decision more difficult. I would cut Randle today. All that ability is worthless with that vacuum of a cranium he has. He's unfixable, his teammates quite obviously don't trust or like him, and disaster follow him on and off the field like open sores on a Saints fan.

Likewise, I'm installing Cassel as soon as possible. If not this week, the bye should be a perfect time. Weeden's cannon, much like Randle's legs, is of no use if he can only lock on one guy, and bail if he's not open. I know Cassel can at least do this, so what's the risk?

I understand Dunbar's injury muddies the waters at running back, and I know Weeden's stats look respectable on paper. But you can't fix the fatal flaws of these guys that lose football games. There's a reason Weeden has lost 13 straight starts.

Unfortunately, I expect coach and franchise speak will set in, and they'll pin their hopes on the returning defensive players on the way.

This team has to get to 4-5 wins by the time Romo gets here, and the Weeden-Randle combo isn't going to get this there.

we all want change. we all acknowledge that the current talent isn't what it should be. so cutting may satisfy fans wants and desires because they are p!ssed at a player, but its unfair to the rest of the team. lets cut randle. is DMthe answer? is MC the answer. is that going to make the team worse? what about witten, and Dez and romo? I am not sold on McFadden. he is barely a role player at this time. Michael Christine was so good, that his team that had spent a 2nd rounder on him cut him for an over the hill aging veteran on his last leg. everyone thought that he is a big power dude and faster than randle and can just run through tackles like nobody's business and he got one chance and just fell on his arse. he is the grass on the otherside, he is jus greener.

so before we go cutting people and replacing them, lets make sure that the alternative is better. cut randle? do we have anyone that can produce like him right now? yes you said, so if we do shouldn't we test try first before we cut him?

is Cassel ready to take over the offense. people complained that game plan was limited because of weeden (duh!), what about cassell who has been here less than two weeks!!! is the game plan going to be any better? is he ready to take over?

 

[Idgit]

and you are completely wrong that we don't need more at QB. That is what I meant about your blinders.

I'm saying if we need more at QB to win, we're toast. Because we're not getting more until Romo comes back. We'll be lucky to have Weeden continue to play at the level he's been playing at. As I've said, if you think Cassel is the answer under these circumstances, you're fooling yourself. Matt Cassel is here in case Weeden gets hurt because NFL teams want signal callers with playing experience, period.

Fortunately, as I've said, there's plenty of opportunity for us to get better elsewhere. The three turnovers on Sunday would have been difference makers in that game, without having anything at all more at QB. Heck, even keeping Street in bounds on his reception or getting off the field on time or calling a timeout might have been the difference maker in that game. There are a lot of little ways we can get more from our team that have nothing at all to do with a backup QB who's not good enough to win games on his own.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

this is the perfect example of why stats lie sometimes.

Or maybe they don't lie and you just want to believe what you have already pre-destined to believe.

Obviously, I don't think that Weeden is better than Romo or anywhere in the same galaxy.

But, he has done a fine job as a backup and that was my point. He helped us to victory in the Philly game (nobody gives him credit for that), we scored enough points in the Atlanta game to win and win easily...but our defense stunk. And he put us in position to beat the Saints...on the road...but our defense didn't help out in the end. And this is without Dez Bryant.

I think Jerry put it best...Weeden is 'limited.' Mainly because he's not mobile in the pocket and I think we saw how he performs from the shotgun which doesn't require mobility in the pocket. And part of his performance has been reliant upon the excellent pass protection and Dunbar's ability to catch passes out of the backfield.

But when all is said and done...he has performed well for a backup and the stats show that. The issue for the Cowboys is that the defense has stunk and even when it is playing well like it did in stretches of the Saints game...it doesn't make any plays. We don't make INT's, we don't force fumbles and we don't sack the QB.




YR

 

[Nightman]

Or maybe they don't lie and you just want to believe what you have already pre-destined to believe.

Obviously, I don't think that Weeden is better than Romo or anywhere in the same galaxy.

But, he has done a fine job as a backup and that was my point. He helped us to victory in the Philly game (nobody gives him credit for that), we scored enough points in the Atlanta game to win and win easily...but our defense stunk. And he put us in position to beat the Saints...on the road...but our defense didn't help out in the end. And this is without Dez Bryant.

I think Jerry put it best...Weeden is 'limited.' Mainly because he's not mobile in the pocket and I think we saw how he performs from the shotgun which doesn't require mobility in the pocket. And part of his performance has been reliant upon the excellent pass protection and Dunbar's ability to catch passes out of the backfield.

But when all is said and done...he has performed well for a backup and the stats show that. The issue for the Cowboys is that the defense has stunk and even when it is playing well like it did in stretches of the Saints game...it doesn't make any plays. We don't make INT's, we don't force fumbles and we don't sack the QB.




YR

You can't say he gave us enough points to beat ATL. He clearly did not. By scoring early and often we also gave ATL that many more chances to score as well. The second halves of each of his starts have been terrible. You can't get into a shoot out and then stop shooting.

The 3 and outs are just like the turnovers they are trying to prevent. No time is run off the clock and the defense gets worn down. The defense is not blameless, they have stunk, but Weeden is not doing enough.

 

[cowboys2233]

I think you need to start with the people who thought Randle and Weden were the appropriate choices in the first place.

Dunno -- I place some of the blame at Romo's feet. He KNEW he was the one irreplaceable player and he got himself into a nasty situation. Throw the freakin' ball away, Romo. Don't double clutch, throw it in the dirt. That's all you had to do. This division would be ours already.

 

[Nightman]

Dunno -- I place some of the blame at Romo's feet. He KNEW he was the one irreplaceable player and he got himself into a nasty situation. Throw the freakin' ball away, Romo. Don't double clutch, throw it in the dirt. That's all you had to do. This division would be ours already.

That was a fluky play. The ball slipped from his hand and the natural reaction is to go after it. The Eagle player didn't have to drive him thru the ground. He didn't even go for ball.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

You can't say he gave us enough points to beat ATL. He clearly did not. By scoring early and often we also gave ATL that many more chances to score as well. The second halves of each of his starts have been terrible. You can't get into a shoot out and then stop shooting.

The 3 and outs are just like the turnovers they are trying to prevent. No time is run off the clock and the defense gets worn down. The defense is not blameless, they have stunk, but Weeden is not doing enough.

Scoring 28 points per game was good enough to finish 7th in points scored last season. That was enough for us to win the game.

You want to know why the defense was on the field forever against the Falcons?

Because they defense COULD NOT GET THEMSELVES OFF THE FIELD.

Sure, it didn't help we had 3 and outs, but giving up 25 points in the second half and 39 points for the entire game is inexcusable. It's not an issue with the offense when the defense gives up 25 points in a half.





YR

 

[Stash]

I'm saying if we need more at QB to win, we're toast. Because we're not getting more until Romo comes back. We'll be lucky to have Weeden continue to play at the level he's been playing at. As I've said, if you think Cassel is the answer under these circumstances, you're fooling yourself. Matt Cassel is here in case Weeden gets hurt because NFL teams want signal callers with playing experience, period.

Fortunately, as I've said, there's plenty of opportunity for us to get better elsewhere. The three turnovers on Sunday would have been difference makers in that game, without having anything at all more at QB. Heck, even keeping Street in bounds on his reception or getting off the field on time or calling a timeout might have been the difference maker in that game. There are a lot of little ways we can get more from our team that have nothing at all to do with a backup QB who's not good enough to win games on his own.

I'd like to add to what you're saying here.

Where are the receivers who are stepping up to help the backup quarterback - whoever that is?

Williams is the best bet, and he struggled all night while facing man coverage from an undrafted free agent. Butler had that one nice grab that I had hoped would both get him involved in the offense and also get defense's to back off from the single high safety we keep getting. Unfortunately, he got hurt on that one catch.

As for Street? He should be out on it!

And Whitehead should not be in this current roster. The team has too many real needs to play around with a kick returner they can't trust to actually return kicks!

I'm disappointed that the team isn't making moves regarding these two receivers.

But if people want to point fingers for these losses, there are plenty of places to point before you would ever get to Brandon Weeden.

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

I. Pead on this back field when he got cut.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

Man its crazy after the lose Sunday night Weeden has gone from 10 straight losses to 13 straight losses. At this rate he will have 35 straight losses before the Patriots game Sunday

 

[Aven8]

Man its crazy after the lose Sunday night Weeden has gone from 10 straight losses to 13 straight losses. At this rate he will have 35 straight losses before the Patriots game Sunday

Weeds gets a tie IMO. The defense gets the loss!

 

[jday]

It takes a special kind of stupid to reach over a pile backwards with a football on 1st-and-goal from the 1-yard line. You can't teach, or un-teach, that level of abject stupidity.

Likewise, stepping up in the pocket is instinctual for a real NFL quarterback who genuinely wants to make a play and has his eyes downfield. You can't un-coach fear from a fearful quarterback, who will run scared out of the back of a perfect pocket most every time.

I fear coaching insanity will continue to play Weeden and Randle, hoping for different. And you know the definition of insanity.

The fix for this defense is two-fold. First, dudes need to return, a la Hardy, Gregory, McClain, and Lee. Second, this offense has to show some teeth and stop gumming its way down the field on hope and prayer.

Dunbar's injury made an otherwise easy decision more difficult. I would cut Randle today. All that ability is worthless with that vacuum of a cranium he has. He's unfixable, his teammates quite obviously don't trust or like him, and disaster follow him on and off the field like open sores on a Saints fan.

Likewise, I'm installing Cassel as soon as possible. If not this week, the bye should be a perfect time. Weeden's cannon, much like Randle's legs, is of no use if he can only lock on one guy, and bail if he's not open. I know Cassel can at least do this, so what's the risk?

I understand Dunbar's injury muddies the waters at running back, and I know Weeden's stats look respectable on paper. But you can't fix the fatal flaws of these guys that lose football games. There's a reason Weeden has lost 13 straight starts.

Unfortunately, I expect coach and franchise speak will set in, and they'll pin their hopes on the returning defensive players on the way.

This team has to get to 4-5 wins by the time Romo gets here, and the Weeden-Randle combo isn't going to get this there.

I'm really on the fence about much of this. I'm not crazy about Weeden or Randle...never have been. But they have not been nearly as disappointing as I thought they would be. In the last two outings the offense Weeden piloted and Randle supported scored enough points to win in the NFL. If anything, it has been the defense that has failed the Cowboys...not the quarterback and the running back.

Just my opinion.

 

[Mr Cowboy]

No wonder his former team fought so hard to keep him and no wonder every team in the NFL also coveted him.

Also, I thought the knock on Weeden was his constant check downs?

You can say the same of Hardy... his team didn't want him, and only the Cowboys pursued him....

So what s your point.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

You can say the same of Hardy... his team didn't want him, and only the Cowboys pursued him....

So what s your point.

You seem distressed at me a innocent in the bowling alley off life. I meant no harm bro.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

My knock on Weeden is he looks scared out of his mind. He bails out the back of the pocket just like Stephen McGee. Way too scary in there, apparently. Tyron Smith runs the defensive end around just like he's supposed to, and Weeden steps BACK into the sack. Serious quarterbacks step forward into the pocket so they can still step into the throw. When he took that late slide against Atlanta when the first down was there for him, I was done with him.

Cassel can't possibly be worse.

And we find ourselfs here wishing, nay pining for Cassell. Mein gott how we half sunk like le Bismarck