Twitter: Baldinger: Receivers are running straight to defenders

[jterrell]

I think he's beginning to trust Thompson too. I hear people say that Dak has to make tight window NFL throws, the players have to make tight, NFL catches too.

yup. accuracy issue can be a real thing or it can be wr and qb are just slightly off.

dak definitely seems to be most "accurate" throwing to beasley for some odd reason.

aikman to irvin was muscle memory.
both guys could execute those plays blindfolded.

this team has zero continuity anywhere with a new OC, RG, WR2, WR3, WR4, WR5, TE1.
timing stuff just isn't likely the way to go to maximize anything.
also worth noting teams could practice about twice as much in the 90s as they do now.
far less reps, means far less sharp.

 

[Roadtrip635]

I just watched a youtuber Aokya I think, cant recall, he broke down our plays last Sunday by route, and you know what.... a good 98% of them were curl, hook and or out routes. But just about everyone of them had the receiver coming back at the QB? Why in hell would you do that consistently through out a game you are LOSING at? After his first talk on it, and using arrows on the screen to show what the WO's were doing, it only took 1 to 2 till you just sat there and went yep that reliever, and the middle receiver and that WO are ALL running comeback routes. There was hardly ANY slants and not a single rub route among them... not saying that is all that is wrong, but OMG can we run anything other then button and hook routes? Someone please tell me, how would a defense NOT be able to defend what you know is coming? Answer, they didn't, they played single high and a few 2 deep and this anemic offense couldn't do squat, because there were not but a handful of plays where one of our receivers was even close to being open. They baited the middle and Et just waited for that stupid forced pass, which he eventually got. These coaches need to go period, end of story.

I watched that too. He's usually very critical of Dak and while he was still very critical of Dak and some it rightfully so, even he softened up a bit after looking at the tape. You just can't expect to keep running the same plays and routes over and over when they don't work and expect better results. What's scary, he only broke down the passing game and didn't see, just how poorly and how many bad or missed blocks the TEs had or how many times we left their stud LB Wagner totally unblocked. Zeke should have had a far bigger day.

It boggles the mind, like we're trying to lose.

 

[droopdog7]

So people are taking one cherry-picked play that confirms their theory and calling it proof? How about we post all the plays where guys were open and Dak didn't see it or throw it? Or, the obvious ones where he overthrew the guy or bounced it into him?

There is WAY more evidence of that out there.

 

[Mr Cowboy]

So people are taking one cherry-picked play that confirms their theory and calling it proof? How about we post all the plays where guys were open and Dak didn't see it or throw it? Or, the obvious ones where he overthrew the guy or bounced it into him?

There is WAY more evidence of that out there.

By all means, go for it!

 

[Roadtrip635]

So people are taking one cherry-picked play that confirms their theory and calling it proof? How about we post all the plays where guys were open and Dak didn't see it or throw it? Or, the obvious ones where he overthrew the guy or bounced it into him?

There is WAY more evidence of that out there.

Is your entire thinking that Dak is the whole problem on offense and everything wrong with the offense stems solely from Dak? Dak is low hanging fruit, everybody including Dak's family knows he isn't playing well, that's not a revelation. If you actually looked at other breakdowns in this thread or others that aren't solely about hating Dak, you might see that there are more problems than just Dak. Dak haters are going to cherry pick all his bad plays, but rarely do many of them dig any deeper to find out if there's more issues with this offense. You can post Dak's plays, but it's not showing anything that everybody else can't see or haven't already seen.

 

[ConstantReboot]

I say also sprinkle some no-huddle now and then too. Defenses hate that and Dak seems to do fairly well with it.

Coaches can do much more than just have Dak drop back and pass. But thats all they have him do as if he's a pocket passer.

Coaches are lazy, dumb or just stubborn not able to change the plays to adapt to Dak's strength. Thats are main problem, not Dak.

 

[droopdog7]

Coaches can do much more than just have Dak drop back and pass. But thats all they have him do as if he's a pocket passer.

Coaches are lazy, dumb or just stubborn not able to change the plays to adapt to Dak's strength. Thats are main problem, not Dak.

That college misdirection stuff doesn’t work for long. Based on how they blew up his bootleg against the Seahawks, I wouldn’t run that again. So I guess we’ve lost a third of daks playbook.

 

[jterrell]

“I think Dak certainly can play better,” Aikman said. “There have been opportunities for him in some games and he’s missed those opportunities. He’s talked about it. He has been pressing a little bit. The offensive line has not protected him as well as they have in previous years. There have been things down the field and the protection has not held up. And then at times receivers have had a hard time shaking one-on-one coverage. I think it’s a lot of things. I would not say hey if Dak was better they would be doing so much better. I don’t agree with that. I think it’s a collection of everything that is going on to where they have not been able to get on the same page.”

Read more here: https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/nfl/dallas-cowboys/article219052020.html#storylink=cpy

 

[jterrell]

That makes Tony Romo and Troy Aimman now both suggesting the overall offense is bad for a myriad of reasons but ole Bob Ray outta Mesquite is so sure it is all Dak's fault.

 

[Roadtrip635]

That college misdirection stuff doesn’t work for long. Based on how they blew up his bootleg against the Seahawks, I wouldn’t run that again. So I guess we’ve lost a third of daks playbook.

That's just more lazy analysis. Misdirection works quite a bit in the NFL and many of the successful teams use it often. If you watched any of the film or game beyond what he did wrong or mistakes he made, you just might see there's a number of plays and concepts did work. Zeke needs to run more, he's our best weapon but continually gets less than 17 carries a game, we're using Zeke less than in any previous season. It's inexcusable our best weapon is seeing less usage. The staff did try getting Zeke more involved in the pass game, unfortunately Zeke made several mistakes and couldn't take advantage, but the plays were there. That's a good thing moving forward.

Dak throws the quick routes well, slants, drags, crosses etc, but we don't call many of those. We do call a high number of slower developing curls, hooks and comebacks. We have had some pass protection issues and Dak throws quick hitting routes well, so why don't we call more of those than the slower developing routes? Comebacks, curls and hooks also have a lower chance of getting YAC, they usually call for players to stop or slow down to make the cut or break. Those routes also don't take advantage of the skillset of our better WRs, Beasley. Thompson, Tavon. They are smaller receivers and those routes don't take the best advantage of their quickness and speed. Slants, drags and crosses gives them a better chance to shake a DB in man or settle in gaps in zone. Using more motion and misdirection on the line would help, it helps to tip off what the defense may try to do, making reads easier or forcing into more advantageous positions. We did that once Tavon, inexplicably his only carry for an 18yd gain. Why aren't we expanding on that concept? There are more things, but it involves going beyond just saying Dak sucks. It's about as inspiring as Garrett saying "Do better".

 

[Roadtrip635]

That makes Tony Romo and Troy Aimman now both suggesting the overall offense is bad for a myriad of reasons but ole Bob Ray outta Mesquite is so sure it is all Dak's fault.

It's just easier to say Dak sucks.

 

[DallasDomination]

Curls and go routes. Lol what's new.

 

[droopdog7]

That's just more lazy analysis. Misdirection works quite a bit in the NFL and many of the successful teams use it often. If you watched any of the film or game beyond what he did wrong or mistakes he made, you just might see there's a number of plays and concepts did work. Zeke needs to run more, he's our best weapon but continually gets less than 17 carries a game, we're using Zeke less than in any previous season. It's inexcusable our best weapon is seeing less usage. The staff did try getting Zeke more involved in the pass game, unfortunately Zeke made several mistakes and couldn't take advantage, but the plays were there. That's a good thing moving forward.

Dak throws the quick routes well, slants, drags, crosses etc, but we don't call many of those. We do call a high number of slower developing curls, hooks and comebacks. We have had some pass protection issues and Dak throws quick hitting routes well, so why don't we call more of those than the slower developing routes? Comebacks, curls and hooks also have a lower chance of getting YAC, they usually call for players to stop or slow down to make the cut or break. Those routes also don't take advantage of the skillset of our better WRs, Beasley. Thompson, Tavon. They are smaller receivers and those routes don't take the best advantage of their quickness and speed. Slants, drags and crosses gives them a better chance to shake a DB in man or settle in gaps in zone. Using more motion and misdirection on the line would help, it helps to tip off what the defense may try to do, making reads easier or forcing into more advantageous positions. We did that once Tavon, inexplicably his only carry for an 18yd gain. Why aren't we expanding on that concept? There are more things, but it involves going beyond just saying Dak sucks. It's about as inspiring as Garrett saying "Do better".

Talk about a lazy analysis. There is a clear reason why Zeke is running less. We can’t pass, we can’t convert third downs, we can extend drives. Zeke would have a lot more runs if we had a successful passing game.

As for my misdirection comment, perhaps I misspoke. What I really meant was smoke and mirrors. We have to be good at the basics, else all the trickery is worth very little.

As for the routes, yeah, whatever. The coaches aren’t complete idiots which is what your stance would have people believe. I have a hard hard time believeing that some random fan could break down film and somehow outwit a high school coach, much less anyone in the nfl. So that sort of analysis isn’t even worth consideration. It’s really not.

And you can say call more or these or those kind of patterns. Fine. But dak needs to be able to run the entire playbook at any given time. I don’t think he can do that and it’s a problem.

 

[Roadtrip635]

Talk about a lazy analysis. There is a clear reason why Zeke is running less. We can’t pass, we can’t convert third downs, we can extend drives. Zeke would have a lot more runs if we had a successful passing game.

As for my misdirection comment, perhaps I misspoke. What I really meant was smoke and mirrors. We have to be good at the basics, else all the trickery is worth very little.

As for the routes, yeah, whatever. The coaches aren’t complete idiots which is what your stance would have people believe. I have a hard hard time believeing that some random fan could break down film and somehow outwit a high school coach, much less anyone in the nfl. So that sort of analysis isn’t even worth consideration. It’s really not.

And you can say call more or these or those kind of patterns. Fine. But dak needs to be able to run the entire playbook at any given time. I don’t think he can do that and it’s a problem.

The predominate number of plays we run are basic. For years, we've heard from opponents that they knew what we were running which made it easier to defend. Go back and read some of the new threads recently resurrected from several years ago. It was the exact same complaints with Romo running this offense. You could literally just substitute Romo's name for Dak, he's not reading the field, he can't make the deep throw, he holds the ball too long, he's missing receivers etc. The problems weren't to the same extent as now, but a lot of the same complaints, different QBs. Garrett and Linehan are very conservative and don't change many of their tendencies. There's many of ex-pros a couple listed in posts above stating much the same as a few here have said, Dak isn't playing well, but there are issues beyond Dak in this offense. These are people that played the game professionally and are getting paid to break down film and give analysis, not some random guy on the internet like you or me or some dude on YouTube. Instead of the normal echo chamber on most internet forums, there are a few that want to learn and see for themselves if there really is more to the issues with the team we root for. In a team sport when a team is playing as poorly as this one, it is rarely just one player or issue.

I am no expert by any means at breaking down film, but I try to go in with an open mind. I also try to find other objective breakdowns rather than the predictable ones pandering to the lynch mob to garner more views. I have noticed we seem to be falling into a predictable tendency with when we use the jet sweep and Tavon. It was similar to when we had Lucky running it, like it was done on schedule at a fairly predictable time during the game. When we ran it with Lucky, it was almost always at the same time in the game. We might have a couple different twists built in, but it became less effective because teams knew when it was coming. The last two games we have run the Tavon jet sweep at nearly the same time of game, very similar to the schedule as before, just a bit earlier in the game. If I, an untrained fan, can see it then you know every other teams scout has seen it too. Hopefully we don't keep it on a predictable schedule, or it will get shut down just like it started to in seasons past.

Our coaches may not be complete idiots, but sometimes it makes you wonder. The Atlanta game was horrendous, why did it take them so long to adjust or make a change. You saw it, I saw it, Stevie Wonder saw it. I watch a lot of football and when another team is getting that much pressure and don't have the personnel to slow it down, they normally adjust the routes they run to get the ball out quicker. Quick hitting routes, 3 step drops, some kind of misdirection to negate or slow the pass rush, it's not a perfect solution, but some chance is better than the alternative. If something isn't working, you need to adjust it. We're not getting a different QB this season, so they have to work with what we have and not do more of the same and expect different results.

 

[Keithfansince5]

Not sure what you are even saying.
I suggested that
Romo in fact DID things Dak isn't doing like create freelance plays that led to a big portion of his passing success.

Oh OK. Just misunderstood what you meant. My mistake.

 

[droopdog7]

The predominate number of plays we run are basic. For years, we've heard from opponents that they knew what we were running which made it easier to defend. Go back and read some of the new threads recently resurrected from several years ago. It was the exact same complaints with Romo running this offense. You could literally just substitute Romo's name for Dak, he's not reading the field, he can't make the deep throw, he holds the ball too long, he's missing receivers etc. The problems weren't to the same extent as now, but a lot of the same complaints, different QBs. Garrett and Linehan are very conservative and don't change many of their tendencies. There's many of ex-pros a couple listed in posts above stating much the same as a few here have said, Dak isn't playing well, but there are issues beyond Dak in this offense. These are people that played the game professionally and are getting paid to break down film and give analysis, not some random guy on the internet like you or me or some dude on YouTube. Instead of the normal echo chamber on most internet forums, there are a few that want to learn and see for themselves if there really is more to the issues with the team we root for. In a team sport when a team is playing as poorly as this one, it is rarely just one player or issue.

I am no expert by any means at breaking down film, but I try to go in with an open mind. I also try to find other objective breakdowns rather than the predictable ones pandering to the lynch mob to garner more views. I have noticed we seem to be falling into a predictable tendency with when we use the jet sweep and Tavon. It was similar to when we had Lucky running it, like it was done on schedule at a fairly predictable time during the game. When we ran it with Lucky, it was almost always at the same time in the game. We might have a couple different twists built in, but it became less effective because teams knew when it was coming. The last two games we have run the Tavon jet sweep at nearly the same time of game, very similar to the schedule as before, just a bit earlier in the game. If I, an untrained fan, can see it then you know every other teams scout has seen it too. Hopefully we don't keep it on a predictable schedule, or it will get shut down just like it started to in seasons past.

Our coaches may not be complete idiots, but sometimes it makes you wonder. The Atlanta game was horrendous, why did it take them so long to adjust or make a change. You saw it, I saw it, Stevie Wonder saw it. I watch a lot of football and when another team is getting that much pressure and don't have the personnel to slow it down, they normally adjust the routes they run to get the ball out quicker. Quick hitting routes, 3 step drops, some kind of misdirection to negate or slow the pass rush, it's not a perfect solution, but some chance is better than the alternative. If something isn't working, you need to adjust it. We're not getting a different QB this season, so they have to work with what we have and not do more of the same and expect different results.

Reasonable response; appreciate the information. I would say, however, that there are many reasons why coaches will run what they run. And I’m not especially impressed that an opposing defender will have a good idea what’s coming most of the time. I would bet that Sean lee knows what’s coming most of the time too. Good on those guys for doing their homework.

As to a simple offense, it cuts both ways. Generally speaking, complicated is associated with not running plays as well and more mistakes. At the end of the day, execution outweighs any of that stuff. Calling an offense simple is not an unqualified knock.

 

[Roadtrip635]

Reasonable response; appreciate the information. I would say, however, that there are many reasons why coaches will run what they run. And I’m not especially impressed that an opposing defender will have a good idea what’s coming most of the time. I would bet that Sean lee knows what’s coming most of the time too. Good on those guys for doing their homework.

As to a simple offense, it cuts both ways. Generally speaking, complicated is associated with not running plays as well and more mistakes. At the end of the day, execution outweighs any of that stuff. Calling an offense simple is not an unqualified knock.

Look at that pass example, it's a 3rd down, the WRs run directly to the defnders and stop. The defenders don't even have to move from their original position. No where to go with the ball, no matter who the QB is. There's another example of that exact same play run 5 years ago, the defense plays it the exact same way. The WRs all run straight to a defender and stops, except one that actually stops a couple yards short of the defender and turns to give the QB a window. A subtle difference that leads to a completion, but still short of the sticks. We run that same or very similar play several times a game, with limited results because the defenders are sitting and waiting, not even forcing them to move. We have had some success with slants and drags which would let our WRs shake a DB, but don't run those plays very often. Short quick strikes, get the ball out, let them develop some rhythm.

 

[Roadtrip635]

Reasonable response; appreciate the information. I would say, however, that there are many reasons why coaches will run what they run. And I’m not especially impressed that an opposing defender will have a good idea what’s coming most of the time. I would bet that Sean lee knows what’s coming most of the time too. Good on those guys for doing their homework.

As to a simple offense, it cuts both ways. Generally speaking, complicated is associated with not running plays as well and more mistakes. At the end of the day, execution outweighs any of that stuff. Calling an offense simple is not an unqualified knock.

I went and checked. The first game we ran the Tavon Jet Sweep on the 2nd series of the second qtr.
The last two games we ran the Tavon Jet sweep on the 2nd series of the first qtr.

I'm curious to see when we run it next game and see if it's on a schedule. Hopefully they change it up.

 

[droopdog7]

Look at that pass example, it's a 3rd down, the WRs run directly to the defnders and stop. The defenders don't even have to move from their original position. No where to go with the ball, no matter who the QB is. There's another example of that exact same play run 5 years ago, the defense plays it the exact same way. The WRs all run straight to a defender and stops, except one that actually stops a couple yards short of the defender and turns to give the QB a window. A subtle difference that leads to a completion, but still short of the sticks. We run that same or very similar play several times a game, with limited results because the defenders are sitting and waiting, not even forcing them to move. We have had some success with slants and drags which would let our WRs shake a DB, but don't run those plays very often. Short quick strikes, get the ball out, let them develop some rhythm.

Well, the bigger issue in that play is that it was third and nine. To compound that situation, the defense knew it was third and nine. And sure, the play looks bad. One out of what, 70?

And I’m not sure the defense necessarily knows that each receiver will stop at the sticks. I imagine there are some option routes and at least one of them could have cut it off or tried to run pass the defender but didn’t.

But again, the defense was able to play it that way because it was third and long. A slant might be been completed but not sure it would have gotten a first down. Defenders react very quickly. And of course, if we throw a pass short of the sticks and don’t get it, people would go all John madden and complain about running routes short of the sticks.

 

[droopdog7]

I went and checked. The first game we ran the Tavon Jet Sweep on the 2nd series of the second qtr.
The last two games we ran the Tavon Jet sweep on the 2nd series of the first qtr.

I'm curious to see when we run it next game and see if it's on a schedule. Hopefully they change it up.

Yet, the play seems to work?