Baun, Murray or Chaisson

[CCBoy]

I love Kenneth Murray, and I feel like I'm the last guy who does.

As Rotoworld put it, if you're looking at numbers, there's only two things that project success for NFL linebackers: 40 time and tackle numbers. https://www.rotoworld.com/article/numbers/nfl-draft-analytics-def?page=1. The correlation to 40 to LB success is one of the strongest between any Combine drill at any position. In addition, the top 6 most valuable LBs in the league all averaged 4 or more solo tackles a game in their last season.

Murray crushed the 40 with a 4.52 at 242 and finished with 4.9 solo tackles/game. Basically, he checks all the analytics boxes you want to be a stud.

I've seen people compare him to Jaylon Smith, and I like the comparison. People usually mean it negatively though, but when healthy in 2018, Jaylon was a demon. His instincts weren't great, but speed is king at LB these days and he could frickin' fly.

If he were added, the Dallas linebacker group would approach the status of when Lawrence Taylor played with the Giants...a gruesome group in deed.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

I love Kenneth Murray, and I feel like I'm the last guy who does.

As Rotoworld put it, if you're looking at numbers, there's only two things that project success for NFL linebackers: 40 time and tackle numbers. https://www.rotoworld.com/article/numbers/nfl-draft-analytics-def?page=1. The correlation to 40 to LB success is one of the strongest between any Combine drill at any position. In addition, the top 6 most valuable LBs in the league all averaged 4 or more solo tackles a game in their last season.

Murray crushed the 40 with a 4.52 at 242 and finished with 4.9 solo tackles/game. Basically, he checks all the analytics boxes you want to be a stud.

I've seen people compare him to Jaylon Smith, and I like the comparison. People usually mean it negatively though, but when healthy in 2018, Jaylon was a demon. His instincts weren't great, but speed is king at LB these days and he could frickin' fly.

No, you aren’t, lol.

Ive been advocating for Murray for months.

https://cowboyszone.com/threads/kenneth-murray-the-most-beautifullest-film-study.455755/

 

[Bowdown27]

If he were added, the Dallas linebacker group would approach the status of when Lawrence Taylor played with the Giants...a gruesome group in deed.

See that’s how I was thinking. Our lb core would be fantastic and take pressure off each other. Look at the niners or ravens with their lb core from years ago

 

[xwalker]

What kind of player do you believe Chaisson will become? Is he solid against the run or purely a pass rusher?

Chaisson is a less talented version of Randy Gregory but without the Weed problem.

He should be a good fit in the new defensive scheme.

He would not have been a great fit in the previous scheme. He would have to have played as a full time DE but he lacks the length and mass of most 4-3 DEs.

He weighed more pre-draft than Gregory did but Gregory had the frame to get bigger and played at about 265 in 2018.

Gregory 6-5, 235, 34" arms
Chaisson 6-3, 254, 32-1/4" arms

Both Gregory and Chaisson were much better at taking on blocks from OTs in the run game than would be expected for players their size.

New DC Mike Nolan (based on his last season as a DC) runs a multiple front and likes to have a hybrid LB/DE.

In 2014 Nolan used Kroy Biermann as the hybrid player.
- Biermann 6-3, NFL listed weight 255, pre-draft weight 241.
- Biermann looked bigger than the 255 in game footage from 2014.

 

[xwalker]

For the guys that know these players who would you take at 17? I hear Chaisson first and a lot on Murray but what about Baun? I have never seen any of them play but from what Ive read it seems like Baun is a tackling macine and could be used as a chess piece at LB or DE both needs. What do you think and who would you rather have? Thanks for the input

Baun has characteristics similar to Biermann that I described a previous post.

Baun 6-2, 238, 32-3/4" arms

Brugler his listed as an off-ball LB but has Chaisson listed as an Edge Rusher.

Baun might be a good fit in the new defense; whereas he would have been a tweener in the previous defense.
- He might have played SLB in the Marinelli defense but that position only plays about 30% of the snaps.
- He could have played some snaps at DE as pass rush specialist on obvious passing downs.

 

[CCBoy]

What he is saying makes complete sense.
Jaylon, LVE backed up by Joe Thomas and Sean Lee is a pretty salty LB group.
BUT LVE is the fly in that ointment with his health.

Lots have us high on LB so something is a smokescreen, that's for sure.

I am hoping Stephen is being honest here as another off ball LB in R1(without a trade down) would be a bummer galore.

Would you be on board with taking Chiasson and using enough of the next draft to trade back up to take Murray...leaving 3rd and 4th for CB and S?

Those first 2 picks would ensure draft stability with 2 'future' starters from the start.

 

[kskboys]

Chaisson would be a good pick up, but I think Jelks and Armstrong should have a chance to show their skills. They are about the same size as Chaisson. So if you have three guys that are about the same size they're not really bringing anything different to the table. Besides our starters at DE are set so we're talking about drafting a backup in the first. I'd rather an Olineman or a DB. Someone that can be a plug and play guy.


Chaisson does stand up good against the run given his size, but so does Armstrong.

Not true. Explosion.

The size thing is not an accurate way to evaluate.

 

[StuckMojo]

Epenesa reminds me of Taco

 

[kskboys]

I love Kenneth Murray, and I feel like I'm the last guy who does.

As Rotoworld put it, if you're looking at numbers, there's only two things that project success for NFL linebackers: 40 time and tackle numbers. https://www.rotoworld.com/article/numbers/nfl-draft-analytics-def?page=1. The correlation to 40 to LB success is one of the strongest between any Combine drill at any position. In addition, the top 6 most valuable LBs in the league all averaged 4 or more solo tackles a game in their last season.

Murray crushed the 40 with a 4.52 at 242 and finished with 4.9 solo tackles/game. Basically, he checks all the analytics boxes you want to be a stud.

I've seen people compare him to Jaylon Smith, and I like the comparison. People usually mean it negatively though, but when healthy in 2018, Jaylon was a demon. His instincts weren't great, but speed is king at LB these days and he could frickin' fly.

Murray lacks the instincts to play at a high level, Beware. Think Bruce Carter.

 

[jterrell]

Would you be on board with taking Chiasson and using enough of the next draft to trade back up to take Murray...leaving 3rd and 4th for CB and S?

Those first 2 picks would ensure draft stability with 2 'future' starters from the start.

I wouldn't. I like Murray just fine but this team needs more picks/players.
Absolute max use of resources for me would be Jamal Adams for pick 17 them keep your picks in all other rounds.

1 pick, 1 player. It'd be max draft capital but of course use plenty of cap.
Then again you'll have a ton of cap when you extend Dak.

I'd be fine trading down to 20-23 or so and then taking Chaisson/Murray/Baun.
Adding another round 3 pick.

At 17 Chiasson or Henderson or Kinlaw (if the knee/hip are overblown).

 

[kskboys]

Epenesa reminds me of Taco

And Taco had some skills which he showed in MIA.

 

[Typhus]

See that’s how I was thinking. Our lb core would be fantastic and take pressure off each other. Look at the niners or ravens with their lb core from years ago

49ers have several 1st round picks invested in that DL.

 

[kskboys]

49ers have several 1st round picks invested in that DL.

I kinda wonder if people ever read. LB's are rendered ineffective if the DLine doesn't disrupt. It's talked about a ton in articles and scouting reports.

That 49ers D was anchored by one of the best DFronts in football, and it came together when they acquired Justin Smith in FA. (At the same time we were chasing Pacman, BTW)

 

[Batman1980]

Well they got Poe and McCoy, what they need now is someone to anchor the RDE spot and someone else to rotate in with Poe and McCoy. I'm not counting on Gregory, Smith or Crawford. I want draft picks.

 

[Bowdown27]

49ers have several 1st round picks invested in that DL.

they traded away Buckner for a first like he was nothing in which he’s fantastic and it’s because they’re loaded on line w studs

 

[kskboys]

Well they got Poe and McCoy, what they need now is someone to anchor the RDE spot and someone else to rotate in with Poe and McCoy. I'm not counting on Gregory, Smith or Crawford. I want draft picks.

Yup. 2 older stud DT's are a good start, but if they play too much at this point in their careers they'd be rendered ineffective.

 

[kskboys]

they traded away Buckner for a first like he was nothing in which he’s fantastic and it’s because they’re loaded on line w studs

Yup.

 

[xwalker]

For the guys that know these players who would you take at 17? I hear Chaisson first and a lot on Murray but what about Baun? I have never seen any of them play but from what Ive read it seems like Baun is a tackling macine and could be used as a chess piece at LB or DE both needs. What do you think and who would you rather have? Thanks for the input

Murray 6'2-1/2", 241 played as an off-ball LB in the middle of a 3-3-5 defense.

Murray has excellent speed and has better than average size/length as an off-ball LB.

Many claim that he has poor instincts but I disagree.

That 3-3-5 scheme had him consistently having to deal with block from OLinemen.

He was routinely double-team by OLinemen which is rare for an off-ball LB.

Because he effectively took the place of a 4th DL, he didn't drop into deep coverage as much as many other off-ball LBs.

His job in that defense was to shutdown the area within 10 yards of the line, run or pass, from sideline to sideline.

He often looked like the fastest, most explosive player on the field.

There were times on swing passes or tosses to RB where he was almost there before the ball got to the RB.

Compared to other off-ball LBs:
Isaiah Simmons:
Projected top 10 pick. Freak athlete at 6-4, 238 and 4.39 forty.
The issue is that he didn't really play as a true LB in college. He was rarely in the box.
He played more of a Safety/CB/LB hybrid role. More Safety/CB than LB.

Patrick Queen: 6-0, 229
Very solid player.
Might be the most NFL ready because he played as a traditional off-ball LB.
He has very good speed and a solid build.
He has below average height and arm length but is a well rounded run and pass defender.

 

[kskboys]

Murray 6'2-1/2", 241 played as an off-ball LB in the middle of a 3-3-5 defense.

Murray has excellent speed and has better than average size/length as an off-ball LB.

Many claim that he has poor instincts but I disagree.

That 3-3-5 scheme had him consistently having to deal with block from OLinemen.

He was routinely double-team by OLinemen which is rare for an off-ball LB.

Because he effectively took the place of a 4th DL, he didn't drop into deep coverage as much as many other off-ball LBs.

His job in that defense was to shutdown the area within 10 yards of the line, run or pass, from sideline to sideline.

He often looked like the fastest, most explosive player on the field.

There were times on swing passes or tosses to RB where he was almost there before the ball got to the RB.

Compared to other off-ball LBs:
Isaiah Simmons:
Projected top 10 pick. Freak athlete at 6-4, 238 and 4.39 forty.
The issue is that he didn't really play as a true LB in college. He was rarely in the box.
He played more of a Safety/CB/LB hybrid role. More Safety/CB than LB.

Patrick Queen: 6-0, 229
Very solid player.
Might be the most NFL ready because he played as a traditional off-ball LB.
He has very good speed and a solid build.
He has below average height and arm length but is a well rounded run and pass defender.

That will be interesting to see how that plays out w/ Murray.

 

[Typhus]

I kinda wonder if people ever read. LB's are rendered ineffective if the DLine doesn't disrupt. It's talked about a ton in articles and scouting reports.

That 49ers D was anchored by one of the best DFronts in football, and it came together when they acquired Justin Smith in FA. (At the same time we were chasing Pacman, BTW)

DL has to be able to occupy OL in order to keep them off the LBs.
Part of the reason we have had a history with injured LBs.