Before you say we draft poorly

[xwalker]

The cowboys have had better drafts lately but the draft but drafts prior to 2010 are probably the reason we have 0 depth. Those drafts still hurt this team.

All players drafted in 2009 and earlier would be on their 2nd contract.

Mike Jenkins would have received the same contract that went to Carr if Jenkins had been a great pick. The fact that he was not a great pick is now irrelevant.

If 2009 and earlier draft picks were great, they would require the same contract that you could give to a Free Agent.

If 2009 and earlier draft picks were not worth a signifianct contract, then they would provide great depth either because they're not significant contributors.

Summary: Draft picks in 2009 and earlier are irrelavent to the 2013 season due to Free Agency.

 

[visionary]

I have made a list of all the players in the NFC East who were drafted from 2010-2013 who are either starters or important role players on their respective teams. I did this purely because I was curious but what I found was pretty encouraging/surprising.

Players who I consider to be Impact/Well above average players are in bold

I also included a list of notable "Busts" (Either 1st or 2nd rd picks who are not with the team or are not notable contributors to the team



New York Giants:
Jason Pierre Paul - Starter
Linval Joseph - Starter
Prince Amukamara - Starter
Jaicquan Williams - Starter
Jerrell Jernigan
David Wilson - Starter
Rueben Randle - Starter
Justin Pugh - Starter
Demontre Moore

Notable Busts: Marvin Austin,

Philadelphia Eagles:
Riley Cooper - Starter
Clay Harbor
Alex Henery - Starter
Fletcher Cox - Starter
Brandon Boykin - Starter
Mychal Kendricks - Starter
Vinny Curry
Nick Foles - Starter
Bryce Brown
Lane Johnson - Starter
Bennie Logan
Earl Wolff - Starter

Notable Busts: Brandon Graham, Nate Allen, Danny Watkins, Jaiquawn Jarrett

Washington Commanders:
Trent Williams - Starter
Perry Riley - Starter
Ryan Kerrigan - Starter
Leonard Hankerson
Roy Helu
Dejon Gomes
Aldrick Robinson
Robert Griffin III - Starter
Alfred Morris - Starter
Jordan Reed - Starter
David Amerson - Starter

Notable Busts: Jarvis Jenkins

Dallas Cowboys:
Dez Bryant - Starter
Sean Lee - Starter
Tyron Smith - Starter
Bruce Carter - Starter
Demarco Murray - Starter
Dwayne Harris
Morris Claiborne - Starter
Tyrone Crawford
James Hanna
Travis Frederick - Starter
Terrance Williams - Starter
JJ Wilcox - Starter

Notable Busts: None


Final Results are

Giants: 9 Total, 6 Starters, 1 Well above average player , 1 Bust

Eagles: 12 Total, 8 Starters, 0 Well above average players, 4 Busts

Commanders: 11 Total, 7 Starters, 4 Well above average players, 1 Bust

Cowboys: 12 Total, 8 Starters, 3 Well above average players, 0 Busts


In my opinion the Cowboys have arguably had the best drafting in the NFC East since 2010. One could certainly make an argument for the Commanders but that also hinges on what becomes of RG3.. I listed him in bold because of last year but the way things are going I'm not sure that will stay that way..

This also doesn't include undrafted contributors since 2010 which I am quite certain we have the most of (Barry Church, Dan Bailey, Lance Dunbar, Ronald Leary)

The Cowboys DO have the best Talent in the NFC East and have the best young talent as well.. It's time that translates but as long as you keep losing every close game with a good opponent it will be difficult. I don't want a coaching change because of all that comes along with (Change of staff, Philosophy, a lot of Personell changes) etc.. But If Garrett can't get us at least to the playoffs this year I think he needs to go.. He has what he needs to work with and even though the Defense has been a major let down the offense has SEVERELY UNDERACHIEVED.. That falls on him.

OK, lets go with this

Exhibit A: lets say we draft great and have talent

Exhibit B: 8-8, 8-8, 5-5

question: what is the reason?

 

[Idgit]

can we include guys we drafted that are starters on other teams becuase they were never developed in Dallas?

...because I can think of 2 2nd Round TEs off the top of my head.

Neither were drafted in 2010 or later, so they're both obviously outside the point of this thread. But to your general point, I'd say that's that's a feather in the cap of the scouting department, and a black mark on the cap of the various coaching staffs.

 

[Common Sense]

Neither were drafted in 2010 or later, so they're both obviously outside the point of this thread. But to your general point, I'd say that's that's a feather in the cap of the scouting department, and a black mark on the cap of the various coaching staffs.

By "various coaching staffs," you're almost exclusively talking about Garrett's offense.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

I have made a list of all the players in the NFC East who were drafted from 2010-2013 who are either starters or important role players on their respective teams. I did this purely because I was curious but what I found was pretty encouraging/surprising.

While I was out exploding cans with firecrackers you were compiling those lists. I appreciate it.

 

[Idgit]

By "various coaching staffs," you're almost exclusively talking about Garrett's offense.

Not if you're partially referring to the 2006 drafting of Anthony Fasano.

 

[Smith22]

Nice original post. I don't think talent is an issue. Bottom line in my opinion is, the lack of a team identity. We pay Carr lots of money and draft Mo, then switch to a defense that doesn't require the talent at corner.

Then we target players for a 3-4 defense and switch to a base 4-3 and see a player like Carter struggle.

Can anyone honestly say this team has had any sort of offensive or defensive identity?

Other than being a .500 team and running a lot of shotgun, I know I can't.

 

[Common Sense]

Not if you're partially referring to the 2006 drafting of Anthony Fasano.

Right. The only time period where one of the second-round tight ends in question wasn't being coached by Garrett was during Fasano's rookie season. Garrett gets here, decides he can't figure out how to use him, and ships him off to Miami. The team drafts Bennett. Can't figure out what to do with him, gone. The team drafts Escobar. Can't figure out how to get a top 50 pick on the field... stop me when you see the pattern. The "black mark" you mentioned really only refers to one offensive-coordinator-turned-head-coach.

 

[Idgit]

Right. The only time period where one of the second-round tight ends in question wasn't being coached by Garrett was during Fasano's rookie season. Garrett gets here, decides he can't figure out how to use him, and ships him off to Miami. The team drafts Bennett. Can't figure out what to do with him, gone. The team drafts Escobar. Can't figure out how to get a top 50 pick on the field... stop me when you see the pattern. The "black mark" you mentioned really only refers to one offensive-coordinator-turned-head-coach.

Ok, well. That's why I used the word 'various.' I didn't look it up prior, but I knew it was going back a ways for that Fasano pick, and since it predated both Garrett's and Wade's tenure with the team, it looks like it was a sensible word to use.

 

[Ender]

All players drafted in 2009 and earlier would be on their 2nd contract.

Mike Jenkins would have received the same contract that went to Carr if Jenkins had been a great pick. The fact that he was not a great pick is now irrelevant.

If 2009 and earlier draft picks were great, they would require the same contract that you could give to a Free Agent.

If 2009 and earlier draft picks were not worth a signifianct contract, then they would provide great depth either because they're not significant contributors.

Summary: Draft picks in 2009 and earlier are irrelavent to the 2013 season due to Free Agency.

What? How is jenkins not panning out irrelevant. If he were a good pick that played well enough earn a contract as lucrative as Carr then we probably wouldn't draft Caliborne, a pick that cost a first and a second. That alone makes it extremely relevant. When you've drafted poorly for a decade drafting well for 3 drafts is merely making up for the mistakes of previous draft. We basically have to keep addressing the same positions of past bust. If you draft well you dont have to use big money on free agents to address draft blunders. Your argument makes zero sense.

 

[Idgit]

What? How is jenkins not panning out irrelevant. If he were a good pick that played well enough earn a contract as lucrative as Carr then we probably wouldn't draft Caliborne, a pick that cost a first and a second. That alone makes it extremely relevant. When you've drafted poorly for a decade drafting well for 3 drafts is merely making up for the mistakes of previous draft. We basically have to keep addressing the same positions of past bust. If you draft well you dont have to use big money on free agents to address draft blunders. Your argument makes zero sense.

He's saying that Carr's money would have gone to Jenkins as his second big contract would have demanded had he played at a higher level. The argument is that you have to use the first-contract windows for your draft picks exceptionally well, and then be judicious on who you extend on second or third contract deals. That makes perfect sense, overall. The Devil, as always, is in the Details as to which second and third contracts were worthwhile and which represent miscalculations and overpayments.

 

[JackWagon]

Even the three you pointed out, have had their blemishes:

• Lee: Uber-talented yet injured to some extent every season of his Cowboys career

• Smith: His play has been very good but never great. As an example this year he is currently ranked by PFF as the 6th (out of 16) best LT in the NFC. Again -- pretty good, but not Pro-Bowl caliber.

• Bryant: Had has trials and tribulations over the 1st three years of his career including the Cowboys having to hire professional babysitters, the Dez rules, etc. Currently ranked as the 7th best WR in the NFC by PFF. Again, very good, but maybe not Pro-bowl caliber based on his production this season.

And dez is easy to shut down ... roll double coverage to his side of the field. He disappears. Why .. because he doesn't know all the plays for the other WR positions limiting himself to one position. Dumb player is dumb.

 

[Idgit]

And dez is easy to shut down ... roll double coverage to his side of the field. He disappears. Why .. because he doesn't know all the plays for the other WR positions limiting himself to one position. Dumb player is dumb.

Any player who can demand safety support from the split end position is not easy to shut down, by definition.

 

[JackWagon]

Any player who can demand safety support from the split end position is not easy to shut down, by definition.

disagree ... 2 catches a game is limiting the player ... Top WRs like #Megatron and Fitzgerald beat double coverages and move around to other positions to get open.

 

[perrykemp]

Any player who can demand safety support from the split end position is not easy to shut down, by definition.

Agreed -- he is obviously a very good player. The question with Dez at this point is he the bonefide #2 WR in the NFL as many on CZ annointed him earlier in the season.

Or is he one of the top 3 WRs in the NFC -- which would make him Probowl worthy, etc.

Or is he something else?

 

[mrmojo]

What is Eways title? Does he contribute to personnel decisions? If so he is going a heck of a job and is the type of person the front office needs.....probably wont happen...but this organization needs this...

 

[Idgit]

disagree ... 2 catches a game is limiting the player ... Top WRs like #Megatron and Fitzgerald beat double coverages and move around to other positions to get open.

The gulf between 'easy to shut down' from your first post, and Megatron and Fitgerald in your current one is big enough to drive both the Eagles and the Giants new bandwagons through. However you slice it, Dez is not easy to shut down.

And, i agree, perry that he's not currently impacting games the way a top WR in the entire league ought to be impacting games. I'm not sure that most of that ought to be on Dez, but it's definitely true.

 

[Spectre]

The Escobar and Claiborne picks are encroaching on bust status (primarily based on draft position). And it's convenient to cite only back to 2010 as 2006-2009 are full of bust after bad pick. Still, good post and interesting comparison on the past 3 drafts.

 

[Idgit]

The Escobar and Claiborne picks are encroaching on bust status (primarily based on draft position). And it's convenient to cite only back to 2010 as 2006-2009 are full of bust after bad pick. Still, good post and interesting comparison on the past 3 drafts.

Escobar is a rookie who needed to add strength from the get-go at a position behind a HoF caliber player where you don't traditionally step in and contribute quickly to begin with. And he's caught the ball well when he's been in the lineup. He's far from 'encroaching on bust status.'

Claiborne has definitely been a disappointment, but he gives us quality snaps and is also not a bust. I'd agree he's not on track to earn a lucrative second contract, and he's had issue staying on the field.

The timeframe is obviously constrained to Garrett's drafts. Other than that, I agree, it was a good OP.

 

[CyberB0b]

We keep hyping up a lot of the players selected over the last 3-4 years, but how well have we really done?

Not going to comment on this year's draft. Still early.

2012:

Claiborne - We traded up to #6 for this guy? Can't stay healthy, can't play.
Crawford - Who knows?
The rest of the draft was terrible. Matt Johnson FTW

2011:

Smith - I really liked this pick, but the kid hasn't played up to his draft status. Not a lockdown LT. Just OK
Carter- Can't stay healthy and has regressed a ton this year. Looks like his work ethic is gone.
Murray - Can't stay healthy.
Harris - Good contributor.

2010:

Bryant - Can't put a complete game together. People saying he is # 2 behind Calvin are smoking something. He still has a lot of work.
Lee - Can't finish a season.
The rest of the draft was terrible.

2009: LOL