Benjamin Albright on Rams and 1st pick; Cowboys and Goff

[Kaiser]

Funny how people make fun of the RG3 trade, but nobody says a peep about the Eli trade.

I was getting there!

That is the perfect example, the Giants were in the fourth spot like the Cowboys and trade up to get an inferior QB and gave up a pick that turned into LaDanian Tomlinson. Edit - Shawne Merriman

While we are in this discussion, can someone name the last time someone trade up to the top of the draft for a QB - and the trade worked out? The Eli-Rivers trade was in 2004 and it was clearly before that.

 

[Kaiser]

Using that logic, you should never take a QB, because they can get hurt..

No, the logic is that there are a lot of reasons why a top draft choice at QB doesn't work out. Your statement was that taking Goff "secures the future for ten years" when Goff may wash out - or he may turn into an average player that falls somewhere between Colt McCoy and Eli Manning.

None of the QB's in this draft "secure the future". Those QBs come along, but none of this years crop are that type of player. All three are projects.

 

[marchetta]

I dont know about this,others reports say the Rams are going with Goff.

Jerry presented the Rams petition to move to LA to the league owners. The Rams have Jerry to thank for using his power to influence the other owners to allow the move. You don't think Jerry picked up the phone and called the Rams to find out who they were taking @ #1 before he flew out to watch Goff workout? Jerry knows who the Rams are picking, and he wouldn't be flying across the country to watch Goff workout if it were Goff. While I don't know who the Rams are taking, I do know who the Rams are NOT taking... Goff.

 

[AzorAhai]

I was getting there!

That is the perfect example, the Giants were in the fourth spot like the Cowboys and trade up to get an inferior QB and gave up a pick that turned into LaDanian Tomlinson.

While we are in this discussion, can someone name the last time someone trade up to the top of the draft for a QB - and the trade worked out? The Eli-Rivers trade was in 2004 and it was clearly before that.

Lol what are you talking about? LT was drafted in 2001... You're also out of your mind if you think Eli hasn't more than justified that trade. That pick has been nothing but a success for the Giants.

Here is what that trade ACTUALLY turned into.

The Particulars

The New York Giants received:

Eli Manning, QB


The San Diego Chargers received:

Philip Rivers, QB 2004

3rd-round pick (Nate Kaeding, PK)

2005 1st-round pick (Shawne Merriman, OLB)

2005 5th-round pick (traded to TB for Roman Oben

 

[AzorAhai]

 

[Kaiser]

Lol what are you talking about? LT was drafted in 2001... You're also out of your mind if you think Eli hasn't more than justified that trade. That pick has been nothing but a success for the Giants.

Yup, my mistake on Tomlinson and I edited the post.

Eli Manning is an average QB that won because of the Giants defense. When his defense has been average, he has been average or worse.

Rivers is a better QB and the future #1 the Giants gave up could have been Derrick Johnson or Aaron Rodgers.

The Giants lost that trade and would have been much better off with Rivers and keeping their future #1.

 

[AzorAhai]

Yup, my mistake on Tomlinson and I edited the post.

Eli Manning is an average QB that won because of the Giants defense. When his defense has been average, he has been average or worse.

Rivers is a better QB and the future #1 the Giants gave up could have been Derrick Johnson or Aaron Rodgers.

The Giants lost that trade and would have been much better off with Rivers and keeping their future #1.

 

[Plankton]

No, the logic is that there are a lot of reasons why a top draft choice at QB doesn't work out. Your statement was that taking Goff "secures the future for ten years" when Goff may wash out - or he may turn into an average player that falls somewhere between Colt McCoy and Eli Manning.

None of the QB's in this draft "secure the future". Those QBs come along, but none of this years crop are that type of player. All three are projects.

Personally, I think taking Goff would secure the future. He would be stepping into a good situation where he wouldn't have to play immediately, and he can work on developing the areas that he needs improvement in (physical strength, working under center, adjusting to a pro-style offense from the spread). I do think he will be a very good quarterback.

Apparently, you don't. That's fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

 

[waving monkey]

Just to understand. You want to use not only this years first(the highest draft pick we have had in a long time) but next years first as well to draft the 2nd QB with an eye towards sitting him for a few years?

correct

 

[Beast_from_East]

Idgit, I dont understand this thinking. If our scouts are telling our front office that Goff is the guy, why wouldnt you want us to give up next years first? Unless, you are concerned about the potential our scouts can be wrong, but in that case, why should we employ scouts we dont trust to get it right?

Good point..............if the scouts say Goff is the guy, why the hell would you not be willing to part with a single pick next year that is probably going to be in the 20s range anyways?

And if you don't believe the scouts, maybe its time to get new scouts.

 

[Beast_from_East]

Yea, you are right.........lets just sit tight at 4 and make the safe pick.......lets take the CB from FSU...........CBs in the top 10 are safe picks.

 

[Chuck 54]

Relax. Cowboys look dumb sometimes, but they are not moving up from 4 for any QB.
They may not even take QB if he's there at 4; due diligence in case Ramsey and Bosa were gone in first 3.

 

[AzorAhai]

Sounds like a fallback plan to me...

 

[Beast_from_East]

Sounds like mere due diligence to me...

If the Rams take Wentz, I really think the brass is highly considering a swap trade with Cleveland to take Goff at number 2.

 

[GroundZero1970]

I just watched some video on Goff for the first time and that boy is a surgeon that had a bad online...he would flourish in Big D wow

 

[fishspill]

Yup, my mistake on Tomlinson and I edited the post.

Eli Manning is an average QB that won because of the Giants defense. When his defense has been average, he has been average or worse.

Rivers is a better QB and the future #1 the Giants gave up could have been Derrick Johnson or Aaron Rodgers.

The Giants lost that trade and would have been much better off with Rivers and keeping their future #1.

Look, you might be right about the trade, but it's damn hard for that position to be taken seriously when they have 2 Lombardis since it went down.

 

[Kaiser]

Look, you might be right about the trade, but it's damn hard for that position to be taken seriously when they have 2 Lombardis since it went down.

I really don't follow. If you agree that Rivers is a better QB than Eli, the Giants would have done even better with Rivers than with Eli. The two Super Bowl rings Eli has are because he had a superior defense and supporting cast around him. I can make the argument that because Eli had three first round losses in the playoffs, they would have won more than 2 Super Bowls with Rivers.

"Trent Dilfer has a Super Bowl Ring" is one of the laziest posts around, but if the Giants had traded Rivers and a Top 15 pick for Trent Dilfer, would they still get credit for the move?

 

[Kaiser]

Personally, I think taking Goff would secure the future. He would be stepping into a good situation where he wouldn't have to play immediately, and he can work on developing the areas that he needs improvement in (physical strength, working under center, adjusting to a pro-style offense from the spread). I do think he will be a very good quarterback.

Apparently, you don't. That's fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I think all the QBs in this draft will take development time. If they take one of the top three with the fourth pick, I'm fine with that. But I would never give up next year's #1 to take a QB that everyone acknowledges will need development time. The only time you give up a big trade package for a QB in the top two picks (RGIII, Eli, the Rams this year) is because you need the guy to start immediately or because you think he is a MVP level talent. Usually both. No one in this draft is that type of player.

 

[reddyuta]

If the Rams take Wentz, I really think the brass is highly considering a swap trade with Cleveland to take Goff at number 2.

I am in on this,lets do this Jerry.

 

[AzorAhai]

I am in on this,lets do this Jerry.