Best Ever Thread

[sonnyboy]

You beat me to it Jack.

If the players from "back in the day" could not compete now, then it works the other way around too. Take away all of the modern medical techniques, diet and training that are available today and these guys wouldn't be as big or as fast nor would they come back from injuries like they do now. Throw in all the rule changes and they would have a tough time competing in the earlier era.

How big and fast do you think DeMarcus Ware would be if he NEVER got to train in a weightroom or with a strength and conditioning coach in his life? What if he worked as a car salesman in the offseason instead of spending it in the weightroom working with a trainer? Well, most guys prior to the mid 70s didn't work out with weights and it wasn't until the late 80s before most teams had strength and conditioning trainers. A team trainer back in the day was the guy who taped you up or gave you a pill or shot so you could play through your injuries.

You cannot compare a player from the 50s or 60s with today's players and say that they couldn't play. You compare players from different eras based on how they did against the competition at the time. I read people all the time who say that Jim Brown wouldn't dominate today because of the size difference between DLs and LBs now compared with when he played. That's just dumb IMO! The guy played when he played and completely dominated the game!

If size were all there were to it then Brandon Jacobs would be ready to break Emmitt's all-time record in a year or two. Oh wait a minute, were nearly all of the guys who broke Jim Brown's record smaller than him? Payton, Dorsett, Sanders, & Emmitt are all a lot smaller than Brown was, yet they faced bigger DLs and LBs than he did. PPPPFFFFFTTTT!!!!! There goes that argument.

Baugh, Graham, Unitas, Hutson, Berry, Hirsch, Brown, Taylor, etc. all dominated the game WHEN THEY PLAYED. How much they dominated is what you compare with players of different eras.

Great post and mostly true. Not all the increased size and athleticism is do to training year round.
Human beings are larger now than they were 20, 40, 60 years ago. The human race has been growing for some time now. On the average we're a good bit bigger than the people who lived 100 0r 200 years ago.

As far as Football goes, the increase in size has been more significant at certain positions. Doesn't seem to have been as much gains in size of the skill players. You average RB, DB, WR, QB are not much larger than their counterparts in say the 1960's or 1970's.

The difference is in the Lineman and Linebackers.

Jack Lambert played at 212. The 1978 Cowboys didn't have an O-lineman over 265.

These players could not compete in today's game.

Yes all the players who broke Brown's record were smaller than him but not much. However, the players Brown played with and against were much smaller.

Brown never ran into a 330lb NT. If he was ever tackled by a 250lb LB, I can assure you he had no where near the speed and athleticism of Ware.

Bottom line is if you sent 2009 Lions in back in time to say 1977. They'd crush the Superbowl Champion Cowboys.

 

[Teren_Kanan]

Lots of great picks here, plenty of room to debate several positions. I personally feel most of the best at their positions are players who no longer play.

Imo HB is a toss up between Emmit and Walter.


The only 2 positions I would fill with current active players (except perhaps Tony G), are at QB and WR.

Peyton Manning at QB. He has everything the greats had (Roger, Montana, etc etc), yet he has played with a team that has glaring holes in it each year, in different areas. I believe the year he took his team to the superbowl they had one of the worst running defenses in the league? Peyton is as clutch as they come, and regardless of how the rest of his team is playing, you always get the feeling that he can pull you through. I believe if he had the team that Tom Brady has played with over the years, he'd have 4 super bowls at least.

He's a mastermind, and is practically the colts Offensive Coordinator. I've never seen a QB with the ability to read defensive and adjust plays on the fly like he does.


WR? Randy Moss. Jerry Rice was *The* man, don't get me wrong, he deserves all the credit everyone gives him. However, the last two teams to break the record for most points in a season have one thing in common.. Randy Moss. The vikings did it with him, then the patriots did it with him. He can catch with the best of the, out run most of them, and do anything you ever need him to do. I believe he will break most of Rice's records when it's all said and done, except he might not have the rings =(

 

[jackrussell]

Bottom line is if you sent 2009 Lions in back in time to say 1977. They'd crush the Superbowl Champion Cowboys.

okey dokey then.:

 

[jobberone]

He was a much better RB after he hit 30 than he ever was before that. Weird.

When you compare the first half of his career with the 2nd half it is a trip:

1st - 1158 carries, 4655 yards, 4.02 avg, 28 TDs, 2.42%
2nd - 1758 carries, 6697 yards, 3.81 avg, 76 TDs, 4.32%

That's amazing when you compare it with other RBs who tend to decline rapidly once they hit 31.

John Henry Johnson is the only other RB I can think of who was better later in his career.

Didn't think of John Henry. He deserves more mention as one of the top backs to ever play.

Riggins was a trip.

 

[jobberone]

......large snip................
Bottom line is if you sent 2009 Lions in back in time to say 1977. They'd crush the Superbowl Champion Cowboys.

I don't know about that. It would be harder to stop the run but just because someone is over 300lbs doesn't mean they could block Martin, White, Pugh, and Too Tall along with Henderson, Breunig, and DD Lewis.

Neely, Scott, Donovan, Fitzgerald, and Rafferty would not have done as well blocking the bigger DL but they were finesse players anyway. TD would have still been effective IMO esp with the screens and specialty draws. Pass protection would be more difficult, too.

There is no one on the Lions like TD, Staubach, Martin, White, Pugh, Henderson, and Jones.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Klecko over Randy White? You disappoint me sir.

White's best days were behind him in my era. Klecko was freaking phenomenal. Trust me.



3JACK

 

[burmafrd]

You pick a player at their peak not afterwards.

 

[jobberone]

White's best days were behind him in my era. Klecko was freaking phenomenal. Trust me.



3JACK

So you didn't see him come into the league and play? You're also comparing players in two different eras as well as one being a DT and the other a DE.

White's in the HOF for a reason and Klecko ain't.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

You pick a player at their peak not afterwards.

You can pick what you want. I wanted to pick players from my era and how they played during my era of watching football. I could've theoretically pick Steve Young if I just picked their peaks because in '94 Young was pretty much unstoppable IMO. Or I could've picked Eric Dickerson, etc., etc.




YAKUZA

 

[burmafrd]

That makes a very limited list and really not worth looking at.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

So you didn't see him come into the league and play? You're also comparing players in two different eras as well as one being a DT and the other a DE.

White's in the HOF for a reason and Klecko ain't.

I saw White play, but when I got into really watching the game his prime had already passed. Klecko did play DT for awhile. And there are many people who think Klecko not being in the HOF is like when Rayfield Wright wasn't in the HOF.




YAKUZA

 

[jobberone]

I saw White play, but when I got into really watching the game his prime had already passed. Klecko did play DT for awhile. And there are many people who think Klecko not being in the HOF is like when Rayfield Wright wasn't in the HOF.




YAKUZA

Klecko played from 77 to 88. White played from 75-88. And White didn't do a lot the first year+. I didn't remember them being contemporaries that closely.

I don't doubt Klecko has his supporters but I don't think you'd get a whole lot of people wanting Klecko over Randy White. I could be wrong though.

 

[THUMPER]

White's best days were behind him in my era. Klecko was freaking phenomenal. Trust me.



3JACK

No problem, the point of the thread was to see who people thought were the best ever at each position. I was just surprised at the pick since they were contemporaries and Randy was a Cowboy.

 

[burmafrd]

Klecko was NEVER as good as Randy until the last year or so when Randy had the bad back.

 

[THUMPER]

Klecko was NEVER as good as Randy until the last year or so when Randy had the bad back.

He wasn't as good as White even in 1988. IMO at no point was he ever in the same league as Randy. Even when they met in a boxing ring the Manster beat Klecko to a pulp. :laugh2:

 

[Temo]

I'm not going to make my own list, but I'll list some guys who seem to be serially underrated in these lists. I don't necessarily think these are the best guys out there, but don't get as much attention as they deserve.

QB: Dan Marino and Peyton Manning-- they should be somebody's list at least!

RB: OJ Simpson-- in his time, he was absolutely dominant

WR: Randy Moss-- Possession guys are easier to find than deep threats, and no one has ever been more of a deep threat than Randy Moss (except Hayes, who is also underrepresented... he played in a different time with different rules and I have no doubt he could put up Moss-like numbers today)

LB: Ray Lewis
Safety: Ed Reed

The Ravens have had a good to dominant defense for the past 9 years or so, which is not easy at a time when all the rules favor the offense. And I think these two guys are the core of that defense. (Suggs as well, but there's plenty of other really good D-Lineman)