Best Leaders in History and a partial why if can

[diefree666]

I have too.

so why would you think you could slip another division through there fast enough to foil reinforcements that would have a shorter distance to travel?

 

[MichaelWinicki]

so why would you think you could slip another division through there fast enough to foil reinforcements that would have a shorter distance to travel?

Because at that point of the battle the whole Union line was ablaze and there was a big gap from about the current site of the Pennsylvania monument south to the G. Weikert home. Hancock tried filling the gap with units like the 1st Minn. and Willard's brigade but it was still a wide space that large scale reinforcements had not filled as of yet. The confederates simply had no reserve units to throw into the battle and ultimately failed to claim the prize.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

so your contention it was better for them then anyone in Europe is thus without basis

You should read what I wrote again. I said that he created a civilization that lasted well over a 1000 years in the same form that was a paragon of art and science until the middle ages.

I never said anything about the living conditions of people one way or the other.

If you would like to make a claim about relative living conditions then be my guest. Of course you have nothing but petulance and strawmen.

Outside of Rome, Europe could never sustain anything and there was constant infighting before and after. Even with Rome they trashed their founding Republic for Empire and eventually succumbed to invading tribes after a few hundred years. Nevermind all the slaving.

The period following the sack of Rome's name should indicate how that went and after a half dozen more centuries they settled into a facsimile of what China had been doing for over 1000 years at that point.

It wasn't until the Renaissance that Europe finally pulled ahead.

 

[diefree666]

You should read what I wrote again. I said that he created a civilization that lasted well over a 1000 years in the same form that was a paragon of art and science until the middle ages.

I never said anything about the living conditions of people one way or the other.

If you would like to make a claim about relative living conditions then be my guest. Of course you have nothing but petulance and strawmen.

Outside of Rome, Europe could never sustain anything and there was constant infighting before and after. Even with Rome they trashed their founding Republic for Empire and eventually succumbed to invading tribes after a few hundred years. Nevermind all the slaving.

The period following the sack of Rome's name should indicate how that went and after a half dozen more centuries they settled into a facsimile of what China had been doing for over 1000 years at that point.

It wasn't until the Renaissance that Europe finally pulled ahead.

your sacred cows certainly have sensitive udders.

 

[diefree666]

Because at that point of the battle the whole Union line was ablaze and there was a big gap from about the current site of the Pennsylvania monument south to the G. Weikert home. Hancock tried filling the gap with units like the 1st Minn. and Willard's brigade but it was still a wide space that large scale reinforcements had not filled as of yet. The confederates simply had no reserve units to throw into the battle and ultimately failed to claim the prize.

Once again you forget that Picket if available would have been a fair distance BEHIND Hood and McClaws. Even at a double pace the amount of time it would have taken for that division to MOVE that distance would have more than likely- and once again I remind you that they would have been moving OVER the bodies and debris all the time- allowed the Union to move troops to attack the flanks of that division. You keep forgetting that the Union commanders had an extremely good view of that part of the battlefield. Pickets division would have been spotted moving in very early on. And also the reserve artillery would have been firing at PIcket from two different angles as well.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Once again you forget that Picket if available would have been a fair distance BEHIND Hood and McClaws. Even at a double pace the amount of time it would have taken for that division to MOVE that distance would have more than likely- and once again I remind you that they would have been moving OVER the bodies and debris all the time- allowed the Union to move troops to attack the flanks of that division. You keep forgetting that the Union commanders had an extremely good view of that part of the battlefield. Pickets division would have been spotted moving in very early on. And also the reserve artillery would have been firing at PIcket from two different angles as well.

He would not have had to have been that far back.

The second line of brigades behind the four front line brigades that started the assault on the left by Hood and McLaws weren't that far behind.

The second and third line of divisions weren't far behind the first one used by Stonewall Jackson at Chancellorsville.

The second, third and fourth lines used by Hancock at Spotsylvania weren't far behind the first.

In addition as soon as McLaw's division stepped off in entirety... Meaning the back two brigades moved forward, there's no reason why a reserve force, be it Pickett or whomever, wouldn't have moved forward to assume a ready-to-advance position.

As far as being able to see anything... The battlefield was covered with black powder smoke. It wasn't easy to see great distances. And seeing an advancing confederate force bearing down on the relatively unmanned line between the end of the Union II Corps line and the outgrowth of woods just north of Little Round Top and being able to do anything about it would be two different things. After Hancock dispatched the 1st Minn and Willard's brigade he was tapped out... And the 12th Corps units still weren't close by (one of which marched itself right off the battlefield) and the 6th Corps units were arriving in dribs & drabs in the Little Round Top area, and not the area north of there.

In addition an advancing Confederate line probably wouldn't even have been seen until it burst through and past Barksdale's (and other brigades) located between the Wheatfield Road and the area north.

Am I saying this is likely? No, just possible. I've studied the maps and troop movements and the Union position from the present Pennsylvania Monument south to Little Round Top was not in secure position until nearly dark on the 2nd with the arrival of 12th Corps along with units from the 1st Corp.

 

[Sarek]

 

[Sarek]

 

[Sarek]

 

[Sarek]

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[FuzzyLumpkins]

your sacred cows certainly have sensitive udders.

you are all on your lonesome, chachi, with nothing real to say. If anyone has a sacred cow its you with your reflexive defense of "Europeans."

All I see is that you cannot make a single supported claim about living conditions in the 3rd century BC.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Constantine led to the stagnation of western thought for about a millenium. It was under his watch that Orthodoxy was established and anything not of said orthodoxy was burned. They even created a style of latin script to identify what was acceptable because it was easy to identify by the legions of illiterate in the mob by the flourishes of the script and other markings.

It's why the dead sea scrolls were such an important find. They were earlier than Constantine and he was quite thorough. Massive book burnings. The Bishop of Alexandria incited a mob to burn down Alexander's academy and the great library. The doctrine of heresy was implemented. Not only could writings not contradict their new Bible but it had to consider said Bible at all times. If it did not then it was heresy and destroyed and the perpetrators burned at the stake and such loveliness.

That lasted until a Dominican Thomas Aquinas had the pope change church policy to remove the at all times considerations. It was not until the Renaissance that the thought police lost their hegemony and Western culture pulled its head out of its ***.

Constantine was an effective leader but he is the person most responsible for the the dark ages. They were helpless to stop the conquests of the Umayyad , the Huns, the Goths, and the rest of the Eurasian tribes who were progressively more evolved in science and culture. They sure thought they were special but Abu, Attila, Theodoric, Genghis, and Mehmed showed them how wrong they were.

 

[diefree666]

you are all on your lonesome, chachi, with nothing real to say. If anyone has a sacred cow its you with your reflexive defense of "Europeans."

All I see is that you cannot make a single supported claim about living conditions in the 3rd century BC.

and neither can you but then again only your opinion ever matters to you

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

and neither can you but then again only your opinion ever matters to you

Just because I have little respect for you and your opinion does not mean that I hold everyone in that regard. Frankly if you would support your arguments it wouldn't matter as it would be independently verified.

And again, I never made any claims about the living conditions in 3rd century BC. You did so and since I have called you out on it a half dozen times you still have provided nothing. You do little more than whine.

 

[Sarek]

Constantine led to the stagnation of western thought for about a millenium. It was under his watch that Orthodoxy was established and anything not of said orthodoxy was burned. They even created a style of latin script to identify what was acceptable because it was easy to identify by the legions of illiterate in the mob by the flourishes of the script and other markings.

It's why the dead sea scrolls were such an important find. They were earlier than Constantine and he was quite thorough. Massive book burnings. The Bishop of Alexandria incited a mob to burn down Alexander's academy and the great library. The doctrine of heresy was implemented. Not only could writings not contradict their new Bible but it had to consider said Bible at all times. If it did not then it was heresy and destroyed and the perpetrators burned at the stake and such loveliness.

That lasted until a Dominican Thomas Aquinas had the pope change church policy to remove the at all times considerations. It was not until the Renaissance that the thought police lost their hegemony and Western culture pulled its head out of its ***.

Constantine was an effective leader but he is the person most responsible for the the dark ages. They were helpless to stop the conquests of the Umayyad , the Huns, the Goths, and the rest of the Eurasian tribes who were progressively more evolved in science and culture. They sure thought they were special but Abu, Attila, Theodoric, Genghis, and Mehmed showed them how wrong they were.

I guess that means your a huge fan of Constantine the Great?

 

[Reverend Conehead]

Dwight D. Eisenhower was a good leader both as a General in World War II and as a President. I went to his library in Abeline, Kansas and can recommend it. Generals don't always make good presidents. Ulysses S. Grant was an outstanding general, but a terrible president. Ike did both jobs well.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Dwight D. Eisenhower was a good leader both as a General in World War II and as a President. I went to his library in Abeline, Kansas and can recommend it. Generals don't always make good presidents. Ulysses S. Grant was an outstanding general, but a terrible president. Ike did both jobs well.

I like Ike but his presidency was notorious for corruption using taxpayer money for personal gain. And of of McCarthy was on his watch and out of his control.

 

[DanA]

Haven't seen it mentioned but surely he has come up......Ghengis Khan.

Came from nothing to unite Mongolia and created the largest contiguous empire ever.

 

[wrongway]

George Washington.....the reason.....'Merica!!!!

Bingo!! Could have been a king, turned it down and gave up the power. Oh and would have been executed had they not won.

 

[diefree666]

Just because I have little respect for you and your opinion does not mean that I hold everyone in that regard. Frankly if you would support your arguments it wouldn't matter as it would be independently verified.

And again, I never made any claims about the living conditions in 3rd century BC. You did so and since I have called you out on it a half dozen times you still have provided nothing. You do little more than whine.

come on fuzzy you could never get enough cheese to go with all YOUR WHINE.