Big 12 2014 Season

[BoysFan4ever]

that would be too many teams and too many games for the same teams.

the bowl season should still reward teams not eligible for the playoffs.
you don't need a national following to make bowls work. locals and two fan bases make it work just fine.

but they certainly should include more than 4 teams. 8 or 12 would be perfect. I prefer 12 because it gives a benefit to the regular season with a BYE for the top 4.

what needs to not happen is teams taking dives because it is better for the conference.
wisconsin's complete lack of any effort to win was appalling.

I watched 2 Badger games this year & they laid an egg in both. That OS game was embarrassingly awful for them.

 

[yimyammer]

that would be too many teams and too many games for the same teams.

the bowl season should still reward teams not eligible for the playoffs.
you don't need a national following to make bowls work. locals and two fan bases make it work just fine.

but they certainly should include more than 4 teams. 8 or 12 would be perfect. I prefer 12 because it gives a benefit to the regular season with a BYE for the top 4.

what needs to not happen is teams taking dives because it is better for the conference.
wisconsin's complete lack of any effort to win was appalling.

Well, that's part of the never ending debate, I don't agree that its too many games and think that's just smoke used to justify the status quo. IIRC, the lower division (can't remember what the heck its called) has had a multi team playoffs for years (32 teams?) and high schools have been doing it for years.

To clarify, I wouldn't get rid of all the other bowls, I was merely pointing out that a 20 team system would create 19 bowls that would have much more interest in those same bowls under the old system (& be more profitable for the bowls--which is part of all the debate, hang wringing, etc).

How does a 12 team playoff working your scenario? Unless there is some kind of bye, Its not enough teams (or too many) to result in 2 for the championship (12 to 6 to 3?)?

 

[Rogah]

no, it didn't.
the very same committee had no problem placing those teams in the remaining new years 6 bowls.

Whoop-de-doo. They gave the Big XII a consolation prize after excluding them from the only games anyone really cares about.

vegas considers tcu the 3rd best team in the country.

You are entitled to your own opinion. You are not, however, entitled to your own facts. Vegas most certainly does NOT consider TCU the #3 team in the country. Heck, they're barely favored over Mississippi - you think they'd be favored over FSU and Ohio State and Baylor? Bull. They probably wouldn't even be favored over #7 Mississippi State.

 

[jterrell]

Well, that's part of the never ending debate, I don't agree that its too many games and think that's just smoke used to justify the status quo. IIRC, the lower division (can't remember what the heck its called) has had a multi team playoffs for years (32 teams?) and high schools have been doing it for years.

To clarify, I wouldn't get rid of all the other bowls, I was merely pointing out that a 20 team system would create 19 bowls that would have much more interest in those same bowls under the old system (& be more profitable for the bowls--which is part of all the debate, hang wringing, etc).

How does a 12 team playoff working your scenario? Unless there is some kind of bye, Its not enough teams (or too many) to result in 2 for the championship (12 to 6 to 3?)?

for that model to work they'd need to minimize conference effects.
you can't have these 16 team conferences and try to make a reasonable large playoff format.
too many games need to be played to get through the regular season.

the lower levels play weekly.
not sure i'd want to see that. at least give them 10 days between games.
make it about best team not attrition through health.

there was a big drop off this year after 6.
miss st and mich st at 7 and 8 would have been fine.
add the next 4 and still fine.

20 games means wisconsin would likely be in... yuck.

 

[jterrell]

Whoop-de-doo. They gave the Big XII a consolation prize after excluding them from the only games anyone really cares about.
You are entitled to your own opinion. You are not, however, entitled to your own facts. Vegas most certainly does NOT consider TCU the #3 team in the country. Heck, they're barely favored over Mississippi - you think they'd be favored over FSU and Ohio State and Baylor? Bull. They probably wouldn't even be favored over #7 Mississippi State.

If you are going to post nonsense and stupidity I'll just put you ignore.

Baylor was seeded 5th and TCU 6th. Had the Big 12 named Baylor champ by virtue of head to head win same thing happens.
That is pretty easy to see. OSU's extra game and better non-conf sched won out.

Vegas had mock lines drawn up prior to the announcement and TCU was 3rd best odds, FSU 4th, Baylor 5th and OSU 6th.
If you are going to argue facts, try to actually get some.
This info comes from Clay Travis the noted SEC fanboy and has nothing to do with any Big 12 bias.


And yes, TCU would very likely be favored over OSU or FSU or Baylor in a bowl on nuetral ground. They lost to Baylor after a miracle comeback on the road. They were up 21 with 11 mins left.
FSU/OSU hasn't faced anyone like TCU all year. No one really close.

FSU and OSU are enormous underdogs because those two conferences are not very good. So the wins they have are questionable.

Miss St would likely be favored over FSU and OSU. Not much of a point there. They are favored by 7.5 over Georgia Tech.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

My thoughts...

The Big 12 needs to do one, or more, of the following.

Expand to 12 or more in order to get a Championship game under the current rules.
Currently there only seems to be ONE team out there that is not in a Power 5 conference that would fit the financial and crowd draw
that the Big 12 commish says would be a desire/requirement from another school...that is BYU. But BYU has thorns on the rose that could make
it something that will never happen. However there are other teams in the East and South East that do not meet the desired criteria now, but could possibly
meet it in the future with better money and conference play. Some could provide nice recruiting grounds for the Big 12. Of course if they offered other teams they could do so with the same type of tiered scale
they did with WVU and TCU.

Don't expand but get the NCAA to award them the ability to have a championship game with 10 teams. Frankly I don't think the NCAA will do this or they would have already tried and got it done before this season since they knew they did not want to expand.

ALL teams in the Big 12 schedule out of conference games with teams that are in the Power 5 conferences. Looking right at you BAYLOR.



Some things that I wonder about...

Wonder what would have happened if Baylor and or TCU played someone like....FSU, Georgia, Alabama, Auburn, Ohio State, Michigan State, Oregon, USC or some other named schools to help their cause. I imagine if TCU or Baylor played and beat one of those teams this year...one of those two would be in the Playoff game this year. I think one would.

I Wonder if we had a championship game (whether that be in a ten team league or 12) if the winner would be in the Playoff this year...I think one would.

We can complain about bias against the Big 12 but in the end the Big 12 gambled and lost the best.

They were gambling that Ohio State, Florida State, Oregon, or Alabama would lose another game and we could possibly have two teams in the Playoffs. Frankly I don't think we would have had more than one.

They gambled with the one true champions phrase and lost.

They had the rules that said if two teams have the same record, the head to head would decide the champion...they ignored that.

They wanted the Committee to decide who should go and the committee decided neither would...Again Big 12 should have named one champ and as much as I think TCU is the better team...Baylor should have got it.

Art Briles may have it right that only one person was born in the south. But to argue regional bias over the south is silly. Does that Coach realize that there are TWO teams from the deep south playing in the championship. The other two from the North East and West Coast.
Maybe Art Briles needs to man up about him and his school always trying to defend it's weak OOC games and saying they would rather take the easy way to become undefeated.

/rant over

 

[joseephuss]

Vegas had mock lines drawn up prior to the announcement and TCU was 3rd best odds, FSU 4th, Baylor 5th and OSU 6th.
If you are going to argue facts, try to actually get some.
.

Do you have a link for those Vegas numbers? The only thing I have found was from the fivethirtyeight site, but that isn't Vegas.

 

[jterrell]

Do you have a link for those Vegas numbers? The only thing I have found was from the fivethirtyeight site, but that isn't Vegas.

clay travis posted them on twitter. they were from a vegas sports book.

 

[jterrell]

also FWIW, SEC is favored in 10 of 12 Bowl games. Both games they are underdogs are versus the Big 12.
Ole Miss +3 versus TCU and TAMU + 4 versus WVA.

 

[BoysFan4ever]

So who will TCU & Baylor be playing in their bowl games since they were both treated like red headed step kids..

Them against each other again might make for another great game but I guess that won't happen.

 

[joseephuss]

clay travis posted them on twitter. they were from a vegas sports book.

He must have deleted it because I didn't see it on his twitter page.

 

[yimyammer]

for that model to work they'd need to minimize conference effects.
you can't have these 16 team conferences and try to make a reasonable large playoff format.
too many games need to be played to get through the regular season.

the lower levels play weekly.
not sure i'd want to see that. at least give them 10 days between games.
make it about best team not attrition through health.

there was a big drop off this year after 6.
miss st and mich st at 7 and 8 would have been fine.
add the next 4 and still fine.

20 games means wisconsin would likely be in... yuck.

good points

How does a 12 team playoff work in your scenario?

 

[joseephuss]

good points

How does a 12 team playoff work in your scenario?

For a 12 team playoff to work:

Week 1
Top 4 teams get a bye.
The remaining 8 teams play against each other.

Week 2
4 games

Week 3
2 semi-final games

Week 4
championship game

I think a 6 team playoff works:

Week 1
Top 2 teams get a bye.
The remaining 4 teams play each other.

Week 2
2 semi-final games

Week 3
Championship game

I truly don't think there needs to be more than a 8 team playoff. I can't remember any year where I thought the 9th ranked team was the best team in the country. I rarely think the 5th best team may be the best.

 

[yimyammer]

thx, I assumed that was the case

you're probably right about the 8 teams but I also think there has been a hangover effect under the old system when If team lost one game early in the season, the one loss takes hope off the table and that team underperforms all year long (they're young, emotional kids, its to be expected). I think there are a number of teams that might play better and improve if they knew they had a shot of getting into the dance and that would make things more interesting. The current system has already improved this aspect but I'm greedy for more.

From an entertainment standpoint, I like more teams and 16 would probably remove all doubt except in rare circumstances where a very good team loses a high quality player like a QB early in the season but he returns to the team at the end of the season to a team that manages to win enough to get in.

There are a lot of complications with the way the various conferences are set up, too many independents, conferences of various sizes, etc to make this happen but If there were 8 conferences of 12 teams with the winner of each getting an auto entry plus a way of getting 8 other teams into the mix by winning or losing games (not by polls and committees) would be the best imho but there is too much tradition and independence among the teams and conferences to see something like this in my lifetime, if ever.

Regardless, its fun and interesting to discuss.

 

[jterrell]

good points

How does a 12 team playoff work in your scenario?

Start mid december.
4 BYEs. 5 vs 12, 6 vs 11 on a WED, 7 vs 10, 8 vs 9 on SAT
4 vs 5/12, 3 vs 6/11 WED, 2 vs 7/10, 1 vs 8/9 SAT

Semi-Finals Sat
NCG Wed prime time 10 days after Semis.

 

[jterrell]

He must have deleted it because I didn't see it on his twitter page.

he has hundreds of posts. I searched too but wasn't patient enough to find it.
It was before this weekend's games.

The other data is brand new.on his page from today SEC favored in 10 of 12 games-- those 2 to Big 12.
Big 10 the underdog in all 10 games.

 

[jterrell]

clay travis from today:
http://www.foxsports.com/college-fo...rting-11-the-playoff-selection-edition-120814


. I actually don't believe Florida State should be in the playoff either.
The Seminoles would be underdogs against 13 teams, including, as you've already seen, double digit underdogs against Oregon. Alabama would have been a nearly two touchdown favorite over FSU, that's more than the Tide was favored over Notre Dame in the BCS title game. Making my comparison between FSU 2014 and Notre Dame 2012 pretty damn on point.

I understand why FSU is in the playoff -- because they haven't lost and are in a big five conference -- but if the goal of the committee is to put the best four teams in the playoff -- which it is -- Florida State shouldn't be in there.

This has nothing to do with off the field issues or hating the Seminoles. It's simply wanting the best four teams in the playoff. That's why I Tweeted late Saturday night that my final four would be: 1. Bama 2. Oregon 3. Baylor 4. Ohio State TCU would be my five. I think all five of these teams would beat FSU on a neutral field.

 

[jterrell]

ESPN Stats & Info via twitter... Clay retweeted....

Florida St would be underdog against Alabama (-11.5), Oregon (-8.5), TCU (-7.5), Baylor (-7) & Ohio St (-3) - Westgate Las Vegas Superbook

 

[jterrell]

and here goes....
http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/outkick-the-coverage/the-vegas-top-10-120414


Now onto bigger things while I let the twiterrati go back to debating the merits of the playoffs based on arbitrary analysis. Here's a current look at the odds to win the college football playoff courtesy of the Westgate Hotel. The biggest takeaway this week is how short the current price is on Alabama, a direct reflection of the potential pointspreads in their next 3 games. TCU remains 3rd on the board given a stronger foot hold inside the playoff than any team not named Oregon or Alabama.

ALABAMA 5-4

OREGON 5-2

TCU 4

BAYLOR 8

FLORIDA ST 10

OHIO ST 15

 

[DFWJC]

clay travis from today:
http://www.foxsports.com/college-fo...rting-11-the-playoff-selection-edition-120814


. I actually don't believe Florida State should be in the playoff either.
The Seminoles would be underdogs against 13 teams, including, as you've already seen, double digit underdogs against Oregon. Alabama would have been a nearly two touchdown favorite over FSU, that's more than the Tide was favored over Notre Dame in the BCS title game. Making my comparison between FSU 2014 and Notre Dame 2012 pretty damn on point.

I understand why FSU is in the playoff -- because they haven't lost and are in a big five conference -- but if the goal of the committee is to put the best four teams in the playoff -- which it is -- Florida State shouldn't be in there.

This has nothing to do with off the field issues or hating the Seminoles. It's simply wanting the best four teams in the playoff. That's why I Tweeted late Saturday night that my final four would be: 1. Bama 2. Oregon 3. Baylor 4. Ohio State TCU would be my five. I think all five of these teams would beat FSU on a neutral field.

Watch FSU beat Oregon...lol

That's not a prediction, btw.