Big Mac is essentially in Wade Phillips’ shoes

[MountaineerCowboy]

I'm just not sold at all on Kellen Moore yet. He, like Dak at QB, just happened to fall into a perfect situation and are made to look REALLY good way before you'd expect them too.

I think Dak is a better QB than Moore is OC though. Because I don't think any random rookie (or even some veteran like Moore) QB could have took that 2016 team to where Dak did, but I do feel like a lot of OC's could do what Moore has done so far simply because of the talent on offense to work with.

He has been made to look a fool against any top defense he goes against. The offense gains the bulk of their big numbers against the worst defenses in the league and then proceeds to get shut down by the better defenses they face. He also can't seem to get the team off to fast starts and is always finding the team trying to claw out of big holes. I put a lot of the blame on the players, but Moore and his play calling to start games is a problem too.

 

[Big_D]

Yep, I have believed it since day one of Moore's OC hiring. The Garrett Redemption Plan masterminded by Jerry Jones.

can Jerry get any worse or be an even bigger moron? This move would unequivocally say yes! Yes he can!

 

[Stash]

The year before has ZERO bearing. The team that Garrett inherited was 1-7. You can argue that all you want and bring up teams past all you want, it doesn't change the fact that the team in 2010 started off 1-7 and Wade was fired. Those are called facts and they can't be disputed.

So is the FACT that the roster had 9 Pro Bowl players. If you want to practice willful ignorance, that’s your problem. The rest of us live in the real world.

But don’t you dare use the word objective while you’re trying to peddle this crap.

2011 Roster
QB Tony Romo
RB Felix Jones (D. Murray was a rookie)
WR - Miles Austin - often injured - only 43 receptions
WR - Dez Bryant
TE - Jason Witten
LT - Doug Free
LG - Montrae Holland
C - Phil Costa
RG - Kyle Kosier
RT - Tyron Smith (Rookie)

DE - Kenyon Coleman
NT - Jay Ratliff
DE - Jason Hatcher
OLB (DE) Anthony Spencer
OLB (DE) DeMarcus Ware
LB - Bradie James
LB - Sean Lee
CB Terrance Newman (33 years old)
CB - Mike Jenkins
S- Abram Elam
S - Gerald Sensabaugh

You're trying to convince someone that the roster above was as good as the one we had last year to start the year? Ok but I think your Garrett hate is really clouding your ability to be rationale. Again other than QB, TE,, Ware and Lee, the rest of the roster was at best average and mostly below average. Maybe that is how you saw our team heading into last year.. I didn't. Again, I did not say Garrett was a great coach or anything other than the team Big Mike took over last year was in better shape, both in talent and in cap space, than the one that Garrett took over in 2011, you can talk about 2009 all you want, makes no difference, that team was gone.[/QUOTE]

I’m talking about 2010, the actual team Garrett inherited. The only person being ‘irrational’ here is you, trying to rewrite history fur a 10-year-plus failure.

Your excuse attempt is sad.

 

[Stash]

"Nobody outside of George Seifert had the table set for them better than Jason Garrett did." That's what you said. Seifert took over a SB winning team and went on to win the SB his first year if I remember correctly. So according to you, Garrett had it better than say Tomlin, who took over a SB winning team for example. And since Tomlin took over a SB winning team and Garrett had it better than that, that would make the team (that was 1-7 when Garrett became the HC) that Garrett took over one of the better teams in the league..

Your statement was silly.

Answer the question:

Where was this said?

So the team that played in 2011 was one of the best in the League? Really?

 

[Big_D]

I like how some talk about what the assistant HC inherited like he wasn’t here or part of the problem to begin with when they scapegoated Phillips out of town. Another joke move from the owner!

 

[Cowboy4ever]

So is the FACT that the roster had 9 Pro Bowl players. If you want to practice willful ignorance, that’s your problem. The rest of us live in the real world.

But don’t you dare use the word objective while you’re trying to peddle this crap.

2011 Roster
QB Tony Romo
RB Felix Jones (D. Murray was a rookie)
WR - Miles Austin - often injured - only 43 receptions
WR - Dez Bryant
TE - Jason Witten
LT - Doug Free
LG - Montrae Holland
C - Phil Costa
RG - Kyle Kosier
RT - Tyron Smith (Rookie)

DE - Kenyon Coleman
NT - Jay Ratliff
DE - Jason Hatcher
OLB (DE) Anthony Spencer
OLB (DE) DeMarcus Ware
LB - Bradie James
LB - Sean Lee
CB Terrance Newman (33 years old)
CB - Mike Jenkins
S- Abram Elam
S - Gerald Sensabaugh

You're trying to convince someone that the roster above was as good as the one we had last year to start the year? Ok but I think your Garrett hate is really clouding your ability to be rationale. Again other than QB, TE,, Ware and Lee, the rest of the roster was at best average and mostly below average. Maybe that is how you saw our team heading into last year.. I didn't. Again, I did not say Garrett was a great coach or anything other than the team Big Mike took over last year was in better shape, both in talent and in cap space, than the one that Garrett took over in 2011, you can talk about 2009 all you want, makes no difference, that team was gone.

I’m talking about 2010, the actual team Garrett inherited. The only person being ‘irrational’ here is you, trying to rewrite history fur a 10-year-plus failure.

Your excuse attempt is sad.[/QUOTE]


The team in 2010 was 1-7 when Garrett inherited them, they finished 5-3 the final games, so what are you arguing, that he was supposed to get the NFL to forget about the 1-7 record and give them a do over or what? He won with the 2010 team, he couldn't erase the 1-7 start that got Wade fired.

Again, your argument is silly, because the Garrett didn't become the official HC until 2011, that was his first year as HC, he didn't collect or get rid of talent after the 2009 season, that was Wade and the FO job, not the OC. So the team was 1-7 that he inherited and he took them to 5-3, not perfect or great but better. Are you suggesting that the roster in 2010 should not have been changed at all heading into 2011, which is the first roster of Garretts?

 

[Cowboy4ever]

Answer the question:

Where was this said?

So maybe I took your statement to the logical conclusion but you didn't actually say the words. Doesn't change the fact that your statement was maybe the dumbest thing ever written on this forum, and that is saying a lot.

 

[Stash]

I’m talking about 2010, the actual team Garrett inherited. The only person being ‘irrational’ here is you, trying to rewrite history fur a 10-year-plus failure.

Your excuse attempt is sad.

The team in 2010 was 1-7 when Garrett inherited them, they finished 5-3 the final games, so what are you arguing, that he was supposed to get the NFL to forget about the 1-7 record and give them a do over or what? He won with the 2010 team, he couldn't erase the 1-7 start that got Wade fired. [/quote]

I’ calling out your attempted false narrative that Garrett didn’t inherit a whole lot of roster talent. Because it’s not true.

Again, your argument is silly, because the Garrett didn't become the official HC until 2011, that was his first year as HC, he didn't collect or get rid of talent after the 2009 season, that was Wade and the FO job, not the OC. So the team was 1-7 that he inherited and he took them to 5-3, not perfect or great but better. Are you suggesting that the roster in 2010 should not have been changed at all heading into 2011, which is the first roster of Garretts?

I’m not ‘suggesting’ anything, I’m stating the fact that the team that Garrett inherited in 2010 had 9 Pro Bowl players from the year before. I don’t care whether you like that fact or not.

 

[Stash]

So maybe I took your statement to the logical conclusion but you didn't actually say the words. Doesn't change the fact that your statement was maybe the dumbest thing ever written on this forum, and that is saying a lot.

The definition (and admission) of a Strawman argument.

 

[Cowboy4ever]

Listen, I dont blame Garrett for anything. He was excellent at saying the right things to the right guy.

He made a FORTUNE by doing exactly that.

Jerry always admired how "smart" he was. All you need to do is utter some football talk that Jerry doesn't understand in order to do that.

Looks like our current coach did the same.

Just don't tell me that Garrett and his stubborn attempt to recreate the 1990s is something to boast over.

I've only been watching pro sports for 45 years, but I've literally never seen staffs do less with more than his.

The only reason I'm not at all worried about an increasingly better Giants roster is him.

I'd almost bet the deed to my house that he is fired after this season when the people around him refuse to be as unwilling to admit a mistake as Jerry Jones.

You are saying things that have nothing, zero, nadda, to do with what I am saying. Its like your having a argument with yourself and losing.

 

[TequilaCowboy]

Listening to our 78 year old owner GM cry and drop F bombs the other day at his “State of the Cowboys” presser, I was struck by three things: 1. Jerry is old and is running out of time to play fantasy football GM and he knows it. 2. He isn’t really willing to “do anything to win another SB” or he would have already done it. 3. True or not- JJ believes he has enough talent to win the big one now.

Which leads me to this simple point- Mike McCarthy is not on a Jason Garrett-like long leash that gives him a decade to win something. In fact, IMO Big Mac is in a position very similar to the one Wade Phillips was in over a decade ago- Win now or else.

Here are some reasons I believe this:

• Jerry hired Big Mac as a “win now” coach. Not a developmental project.
• JJ prefers having a coach he can take some credit for developing into a winner- like Garrett was. (His current pet project and HC in waiting may be Kellen Moore)
• Big Mac fits a very narrow expectation Jerry has for his HCs-
  • They must be able to tolerate his intrusions. (Most HCs wouldn’t)
  • They must NOT be seen as stronger or more in control than him.
• If this team doesn’t at least win a couple of playoff games, I think Big Mac is in danger of a firing.

I hope Mike McCarthy is successful because I want the Cowboys to finally crawl from their qtr century of playoff irrelevance. He better win because I think he’s on the shortest of HC leashes. Another year of not making the playoffs or even a first round exit is probably an exit sign for the Mike McCarthy era.

Great post. except i think MM will at least stay the length of his contract and just won't be resigned. Much like Garrett's ending here. Heaven help us if KM is the next HC. Another HC trainee with a very long leash, sound familiar?

 

[Cowboy4ever]

The team in 2010 was 1-7 when Garrett inherited them, they finished 5-3 the final games, so what are you arguing, that he was supposed to get the NFL to forget about the 1-7 record and give them a do over or what? He won with the 2010 team, he couldn't erase the 1-7 start that got Wade fired.

I’ calling out your attempted false narrative that Garrett didn’t inherit a whole lot of roster talent. Because it’s not true.



I’m not ‘suggesting’ anything, I’m stating the fact that the team that Garrett inherited in 2010 had 9 Pro Bowl players from the year before. I don’t care whether you like that fact or not.[/QUOTE]


First, I never ever said there wasn't talent on the team. What I said if you care to actually read and understand and not get blinded by your hatred for Garrett was that the roster that Big Mike had his first year (inherited) was vastly better than the roster that Garrett inherited. Who was on the team in 2009 DOES NOT MATTER, that has no bearing on the team in 2010, if it did, they wouldn't have been 1-7 ever. Players leave, players don't play at the same level, new players join, players get older, slower, etc. They could have had 53 All pros in 2009 and it still would not matter in 2010. The fact is that the team Garrett inherited was 1-7, you can go back to 2009, 1996, 1993, 1971, whatever, those teams have no bearing on the 2010 team either.

 

[Stash]

I’ calling out your attempted false narrative that Garrett didn’t inherit a whole lot of roster talent. Because it’s not true.



I’m not ‘suggesting’ anything, I’m stating the fact that the team that Garrett inherited in 2010 had 9 Pro Bowl players from the year before. I don’t care whether you like that fact or not.

First, I never ever said there wasn't talent on the team. What I said if you care to actually read and understand and not get blinded by your hatred for Garrett was that the roster that Big Mike had his first year (inherited) was vastly better than the roster that Garrett inherited. Who was on the team in 2009 DOES NOT MATTER, that has no bearing on the team in 2010, if it did, they wouldn't have been 1-7 ever. Players leave, players don't play at the same level, new players join, players get older, slower, etc. They could have had 53 All pros in 2009 and it still would not matter in 2010. The fact is that the team Garrett inherited was 1-7, you can go back to 2009, 1996, 1993, 1971, whatever, those teams have no bearing on the 2010 team either.[/QUOTE]

The record is not and was not indicative of the talent on the team. If it were, Wade wouldn’t have been fired. But you fixate on that in your weak Garrett excuse attempts.

 

[Cowboy4ever]

The definition (and admission) of a Strawman argument.

Are you really that ... well never mind. But if you believe that the team in 2010, or 2011 which ever one you want to pick, doesn't matter was a top team, which is what you meant, whether you used the terms or not, but your statement about the best situation except for Siefert (who inherited a SB team and won a SB with that team his first year) was crazy stupid. You can call that a strawman argument if you want, I just call it what it is.. dumb.

 

[quickccc]

Frankly I am worried about Jerry’s health. Been worried the last few years.

Hope he’s around us for quite some time but cannot help but believe this urgency to win now plays a part of Jerry’s age and health being, and plays far more a bigger part of the Cowboys move
than ever before.
- And I’ve long believe Stephen Jones is really running football operations - while Jerry remains the marketer of the Cowboys aided by daughter Charlotte and son Jerry Jr.

- I think McCarthy is holding reservations for young future heir apparent HC Kellen Moore – whom Jerry may hope becomes Cowboys version of Saints HC Sean Payton.

- Many here may still have their hearts broken over Cowboys not hiring college legends Lincoln Riley or Urban Meyer- but I was totally in agreement with their decisions to hire McCarthy with SB resume and credentials, and NFL battle tested experience.
They wanted to hit the ground, instead of having to endure a college HC having to go thru speed bumps of learning and adjusting to the NFL.

- Although the more reasons why the Mac had better win is , the Cowboys have two potential HC candidates on their staff in Dan Quinn who has been to a SB game as a HC.
..and OC Kellen Moore (see Jerry’s aspirations of Sean Payton again)

and while I really believe that we would’ve won more games to get into the playoffs with Dak if not for season ending ankle injury, we really dunno what the DC and guys Mac brought on in Harris,
Philibin and Bones, combined with Mac’s questionable in game decisions, ... and the Nolan and Tomsula hires may have very likely added Mac to the hot seat, as management seemed irritated
as major setbacks and probably brought Mac’s stock down big time.

 

[fivetwos]

You are saying things that have nothing, zero, nadda, to do with what I am saying. Its like your having a argument with yourself and losing.

You may be right. I really didn't read what you said.

Take a guess why.

 

[buybuydandavis]

Nope.

Well reasoned retort!

 

[PAPPYDOG]

Listening to our 78 year old owner GM cry and drop F bombs the other day at his “State of the Cowboys” presser, I was struck by three things: 1. Jerry is old and is running out of time to play fantasy football GM and he knows it. 2. He isn’t really willing to “do anything to win another SB” or he would have already done it. 3. True or not- JJ believes he has enough talent to win the big one now.

Which leads me to this simple point- Mike McCarthy is not on a Jason Garrett-like long leash that gives him a decade to win something. In fact, IMO Big Mac is in a position very similar to the one Wade Phillips was in over a decade ago- Win now or else.

Here are some reasons I believe this:

• Jerry hired Big Mac as a “win now” coach. Not a developmental project.
• JJ prefers having a coach he can take some credit for developing into a winner- like Garrett was. (His current pet project and HC in waiting may be Kellen Moore)
• Big Mac fits a very narrow expectation Jerry has for his HCs-
  • They must be able to tolerate his intrusions. (Most HCs wouldn’t)
  • They must NOT be seen as stronger or more in control than him.
• If this team doesn’t at least win a couple of playoff games, I think Big Mac is in danger of a firing.

I hope Mike McCarthy is successful because I want the Cowboys to finally crawl from their qtr century of playoff irrelevance. He better win because I think he’s on the shortest of HC leashes. Another year of not making the playoffs or even a first round exit is probably an exit sign for the Mike McCarthy era.

This is Fat Mike's last season as our head coach.
He is here to say YES Jerry and collect his massive last big pay-check.
Will the next "Yes" man please step up to the microphone.....

 

[DandyDon52]

You are spot on about Jerry's profile.
If they totally flop, he's definitely gone. I define that as no playoffs, despite their record.
If they back into the playoffs, and then flame out, he's gone.
If they win two playoffs, WC and Divisional, he has another year.
If they get into the NFCCG, Jerry will kiss him on stage...JK

I see KM or DQ as the next HC at some point, unless they blow it.

If they win the div rd, they are in the NFCCG

 

[DandyDon52]

Listening to our 78 year old owner GM cry and drop F bombs the other day at his “State of the Cowboys” presser, I was struck by three things: 1. Jerry is old and is running out of time to play fantasy football GM and he knows it. 2. He isn’t really willing to “do anything to win another SB” or he would have already done it. 3. True or not- JJ believes he has enough talent to win the big one now.

Which leads me to this simple point- Mike McCarthy is not on a Jason Garrett-like long leash that gives him a decade to win something. In fact, IMO Big Mac is in a position very similar to the one Wade Phillips was in over a decade ago- Win now or else.

Here are some reasons I believe this:

• Jerry hired Big Mac as a “win now” coach. Not a developmental project.
• JJ prefers having a coach he can take some credit for developing into a winner- like Garrett was. (His current pet project and HC in waiting may be Kellen Moore)
• Big Mac fits a very narrow expectation Jerry has for his HCs-
  • They must be able to tolerate his intrusions. (Most HCs wouldn’t)
  • They must NOT be seen as stronger or more in control than him.
• If this team doesn’t at least win a couple of playoff games, I think Big Mac is in danger of a firing.

I hope Mike McCarthy is successful because I want the Cowboys to finally crawl from their qtr century of playoff irrelevance. He better win because I think he’s on the shortest of HC leashes. Another year of not making the playoffs or even a first round exit is probably an exit sign for the Mike McCarthy era.

I dont think team will do so bad mike gets fired early.
I think due to his age jerry doesnt want to hire another HC, and he doesnt feel kellen is ready , or kellen would be HC now.
Mike just needs to have winning record, and make playoffs.
I dont think he has to do more than not lose in WC round.
If he gets to div and lose this year, then next year they would want him to win it.
I think the jones boys believe in mike even though his SB win was over a decade ago.

one thing people dont consider is jones boys after 25 years of it lol , are USED to losing !
I think on one hand they think this could be a SB year, and if not next year even more so. But on the other hand
they are so used to losing, they are not gonna explode and fire mike.