Bill Belichick's new book.... Parcells diss

[Alexander]

I think Belichick is a great coach. But given the choice, I'd take Parcells every time.

To me, they are different animals.

If I want a master psychologist and team builder to resurrect my franchise, I take Coach Parcells.

If I want a coach who can help me win one game with average talent, I would have to take Belichick.

Belichick is not much in terms of personnel acquisition and team building. But give him the types of players he wants, he can compose a strategy to win a football game that few can match.

Coach Parcells is much simpler, deliberate and succinct in his approach. And far slower to adapt to adversity.

 

[Mike 1967]

And we had a great chance to win because we played conservatively. Our problem was that Hambrick got stuffed on the 4th down and Carter threw costly interceptions.

And one lucky deep pass :bang2:

 

[Rockytop6]

Since Belichick states that he wasn't allowed much control or wasn't able to do what he wanted to do when he was on Parcell's staff, that kind of puts to rest the argument that Parcells owes his past success to Belicheck.

 

[DLCassidy]

BP gift wrapped that NE team for Belichek we will see how he does now that the talent BP brought in is getting old.

Um...no..not really. Pete Carroll was the HC in NE for three years before BB took over. The talent level in NE had gradually eroded after BP left and Bobby Grier took over the drafts. There were some significant holdovers but NE had like 12 new starters in 2001 (including Tom Brady after 2 games). As an aside, part of Bledsoe's problem after BP left was they let the OL go south. BB had 3 new starters on the OL in 2001. Since then BB has turned over almost the entire roster again. I think Tedy Bruschi and Willie McGinest are the only remaining players from when BP was there. The 2004 NE SB team is almost all BB's guys. So BB deserves big time props for what he's accomplished.

As to the original point of the thread, I think BB not giving proper credit to BP shows 2 things very clearly: 1) He hates Parcells 2) He has an even more massive ego than anyone thought because the only way pretending BP had no influence makes sense is if BB wants to minimize BP's work and maximize his own. BB can talk about Paul Brown and he can talk about his dad but as far as learning the ins and outs of how a HC should operate he watched BP up close and personal for over a decade, so it's preposterous to think that BP was not the single biggest influence on his career as a HC. He sure as heck wasn't just some guy with "different philosophies".

 

[Mike 1967]

Since Belichick states that he wasn't allowed much control or wasn't able to do what he wanted to do when he was on Parcell's staff, that kind of puts to rest the argument that Parcells owes his past success to Belicheck.

Good Point !

 

[InmanRoshi]

Aside from Tom Landry, what coach has won with a different set of guys? Jimmy coudln't do it in Miami. George Seifert couldn't do it in Carolina. Bill Walsh flopped when he returned to Stanford.

Every great coach you hear about who has won multiple Superbowls has won with the same set of players whether you are talking about Bill Walsh, Jimmy Johnson, Vince Lombardi and Chuck Knoll. Even Parcells won his 2 Superbowls with essentially the same Giants roster.

Bill Parcells may have come close to winning with a different set of players but he always had Bill Bellichik at his side too.

If Parcells really wants to destroy this myth that he rode Bellichik's coat tails, then he needs to take this Dallas team to a Superbowl some time in the near future.

Tom Landry won with several different generations of coaches and players. As did Don Shula. You're right, that number is very few .. which is the way it should be. The term "great" shouldn't be handed out freely.

New England was a great situation for Belichick to succeed in. He already had a core of veterans who knew his philosophies that could lead the lockerroom. He also had a core set of battle tested assistant coaches in his philosophy. That's what seperated the situation from Cleveland. Not "opening up emotionally". If Belichick had to come into a new organization with players and a coaching staff completely unfamiliar with what he wanted, he would suffer the same fate as he had in Cleveland. Teaching 10-12 new rookies and free agents the system every year is incomparable to coming into a new organization and getting 80 skeptical players on the same page. That's why numerous coaches have won multiple Superbowls with essentialy the same team, but no one has won Superbowls with two different organizations. Its what makes Parcells so remarkable that he's even come close.

 

[dboyz]

Interesting discussion I'd like to weigh in on.

I think Parcells is a guy who is quite volatile and I can believe that he would have said something like was quoted in the Halberstam book about Bellichik never coaching again. However, I don't think he would really mean it, and I would bet he probably apologized or cleared it up later.

In fact, we know that Parcells thought enough of him to make sure he got to be the Jets coach after Parcells was done. Parcells may say things in the heat of the moment, but he is usually pretty diplomatic when asked to go on the record and actually pretty generous with his compliments of other coaches, etc. I think he has said good things about Bellichik in the past, in terms of his ability to strategize and he gave Bellichik that bear hug after the New England game in 2003 I believe.

I get the impression that Bellichik, while not volatile and wouldn't say the stupid things that Parcells says is not very generous or diplomatic in giving credit to others. Its evident that Parcells has had a profound impact on Bellichik's coaching.

 

[dogunwo]

Why does that speak volumes? That's just your interpretation. Sure, I see where you are coming from. You could see it as him being jealous or envious of Parcells and deliberately fails to give him any credit to spite him.

Or maybe, Bellichik is just being honest and doesn't feel indebted to providing Parcells credit simply because he was his boss for several years.

When the Patriots played us in 2003, Bellichek just put on a clinic and exposed Parcells. And that was during Parcell's 10-6 season. I didn't get any indication that Parcells taugh Bellichek a thing or two. Those schemes didn't look like anything Parcells was implementing with Dallas at the time.

You seem to forget that was a SB Patriots team vs a team coming off a 5-11 season. Dallas played well above their level that season. It was hardly a clinic by the way, the score was 12-0, and the Pats didnt put the game away until late.

 

[Alexander]

I would like to add that Bill Belichick is gay.


Oops. Wrong thread.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Um...no..not really. Pete Carroll was the HC in NE for three years before BB took over. The talent level in NE had gradually eroded after BP left and Bobby Grier took over the drafts. There were some significant holdovers but NE had like 12 new starters in 2001".

Here’s a list of guys that Parcells brought into New England or helped bring into New England that Belichick got to have under his current reign as head coach:

1. Drew Bledsoe
2. Troy Brown
3. Adam Vinatieri
4. Ty Law
5. Otis Smith
6. Lawyer Milloy
7. Ted Johnson
8. Tedy Bruschi
9. Willie McGinest
10. Roman Phifer

So let’s see. Parcells gave him a top flight CB, SS, pass rushing OLB, ILB, and a possible HOF kicker.

Then there’s Brown (top receiver in team history), Johnson (great against the run), Phifer, and Smith who were all significant contributors.

And don’t forget about Bledsoe. Without him, the Pats never beat the Steelers in the ’01 playoff game (Brady went down with an injury in the 1st quarter). Furthermore, they were able to trade him away for draft picks to the Bills.

The big thing is that Belichick was able to take over the Pats and go into his favorite defensive scheme (the 3-4) without missing a beat since he had players that were built for the 3-4 and had played it under Parcells. That’s a far cry from Parcells taking over the Cowboys with diminutive defensive players not suited for the 3-4.

If anything, this list shows just how great of a job Charlie Weiss did in New England. He controlled the offensive side of things and practically helped develop a team with a poor offense to a team with one of the best offenses in the league. Including a future HOF Quarterback that was a 6th round pick.

Rich……………

 

[Alexander]

That's why numerous coaches have won multiple Superbowls with essentialy the same team, but no one has won Superbowls with two different organizations. Its what makes Parcells so remarkable that he's even come close.

Coach Parcells was also a pioneer. He was the first true "free agent" coach in a era where free agency came to be.

In the 1970s and into the 1980s a coach, if they were any good, stayed with their organization forever. Lombardi, Landry, Shula and Noll and were all examples of this. Now you have perhaps one in the league who has stayed with their club for a decade (Bill Cowher).

Bill Parcells left the Giants, went back, left New England, went back, left the Jets, went back.

Had Lombardi, Landry, Shula or Noll done the same are you implying they would be any less remarkable?

That does not make Coach Parcells any more accomplished than any of the other legends just because he decided to do it in more places.

 

[Givincer]

You toiled for years. Your boss taught you a good deal about how to be a head coach. However, your hard work was never recognized. But the boss got the credit. Then you strike out on your own and accomplish things at a level and even above what your boss did.

I don't think you can say that Bellichick has surpassed Parcells. Parcells won 2 titles with the Giants then went on to rebuild two franchises and is currently working on his third. Bellichick has won 3 titles , yes more than Parcells, but he hasn't accomplished as much entirely. Think about where the Patriots and the Jets were before Parcells got there and also think about where the Cowboys were when he got here. Now think about where the Patriots were when Bellichick came there they weren't in awful shape in fact many of the players that are major contributors to the 3 superbowl runs were drafted by Parcells...

 

[Alexander]

I don't think you can say that Bellichick has surpassed Parcells. Parcells won 2 titles with the Giants then went on to rebuild two franchises and is currently working on his third. Bellichick has won 3 titles , yes more than Parcells, but he hasn't accomplished as much entirely. Think about where the Patriots and the Jets were before Parcells got there and also think about where the Cowboys were when he got here. Now think about where the Patriots were when Bellichick came there they weren't in awful shape in fact many of the players that are major contributors to the 3 superbowl runs were drafted by Parcells...

If you look at it title for title, Belichick has surpassed Parcells. He has coached a dynasty that has one three crowns, like it or not.

If Belichick went to another franchise and repeated his success, then you would have an even comparison.

Two different things.

 

[Rack]

Got a copy of his new book "The education of a coach"

Its about all the people thats influenced him over his career. Alot of it talks about his father who is also a coach.

So far the only thing I've seen about Parcells is that he said they had contrasting styles and because of that Parcells didnt really influence his coaching career.

I dont particularly like Parcells myself, but here was an opportunity for him to pay homage to someone that gave him an opportunity to break into the pros if nothing else.

Ultimate diss.

Parcells got Beli*rick his Cleveland job, and then took him back after he FAILED.

Then he got him ANOTHER job (Jets) and Beli*rick stabbed him in the back and went to NE instead.

Parcells pretty much MADE Beli*rick and he's never given him credit.

What a piss-poor, sorry excuse for a human being.

 

[Givincer]

That does not make Coach Parcells any more accomplished than any of the other legends just because he decided to do it in more places.

No the decision of his to do it in more than one place does not make his career any more remarkable than any of the other great coaches. What makes his career more remarkable than many other coaches is the fact that he's had success where ever he's gone. And as of right now it looks like he's about to turn a 4th franchise around nobody in history has turned 3 around let alone 4. You cannot say Landry Lombardi Bellichick Noll Shula Walsh would have succeeded had they gone to another franchise because they haven't done it. Parcells has and is the only one that has done that - it is far more impressive to turn 4 franchises around (assuming he turns the Cowboys completely around) than it is to stay with one franchise for x number of years and win x number of superbowls, in my logical eyes anyways...

 

[adbutcher]

Parcells got Beli*rick his Cleveland job, and then took him back after he FAILED.

Then he got him ANOTHER job (Jets) and Beli*rick stabbed him in the back and went to NE instead.

Parcells pretty much MADE Beli*rick and he's never given him credit.

What a piss-poor, sorry excuse for a human being.

 

[mr.jameswoods]

I don't think you can say that Bellichick has surpassed Parcells. Parcells won 2 titles with the Giants then went on to rebuild two franchises and is currently working on his third. Bellichick has won 3 titles , yes more than Parcells, but he hasn't accomplished as much entirely. Think about where the Patriots and the Jets were before Parcells got there and also think about where the Cowboys were when he got here. Now think about where the Patriots were when Bellichick came there they weren't in awful shape in fact many of the players that are major contributors to the 3 superbowl runs were drafted by Parcells...

But did Parcells rebuild the Patriots and Jets by himself or was Bellichek at his side the entire time?

Bellichek finished 5-11 in his first year with the Patriots so how much talent did they have? And the following year, (the year they won their 1st SB) they were 4-4 at midseason? So how loaded with talent was that team. I thought the Rams team they defeated in the Superbowl was much more talented as was the Raiders team they defeated in the playoffs that year. Also, they didn't win the following year. They finished 9-7 despite not losing any major players. If they were so loaded with talent, why didn' they win the following year in 2002?

The term talent is meaningless. If a team that is thought to lack talent in the preseason wins the Superbowl that year, players who were previously thought of as lacking talent will suddenly be called talented. The Patriots were not thought to have a lot of talent after 2001. It wasn't until after their second Superbowl that Tom Brady finally started getting accolades for being a talented QB. I don't think Parcells could have taken those teams to a Superbowl without Bellichek. However, I would have loved to see what Bellichek could do with our talent on this team. It could be scary.

 

[Givincer]

If you look at it title for title, Belichick has surpassed Parcells. He has coached a dynasty that has one three crowns, like it or not.

If Belichick went to another franchise and repeated his success, then you would have an even comparison.

Two different things.

You are comparing their legacies not just superbowl titles

Bellichick has failed with the Browns succeeded with the Patriots and won 3 superbowl titles.

Parcells has succeeded with the Giants and won 2 superbowl titles. Succeeded with the Patriots winning an AFC title(taking the franchise from nothing into something). Succeeded with the Jets getting them to an AFC title game (taking the franchise from nothing into something). And is currently working on the Cowboys who were in absolute horrible shape when he got here and as of right now they are considered one of the best teams in the NFC.

If you go by this logic of superbowl titles being the way to measure coaches against eachother then Bellichick is a "better coach" than Tom Landry. I would have to say that is a false statement and I think many football fans would agree. You have to take the entire coaching legacy into consideration (all of their accomplishments) not just superbowl titles.

 

[mr.jameswoods]

You are comparing their legacies not just superbowl titles

Bellichick has failed with the Browns succeeded with the Patriots and won 3 superbowl titles.

Parcells has succeeded with the Giants and won 2 superbowl titles. Succeeded with the Patriots winning an AFC title(taking the franchise from nothing into something). Succeeded with the Jets getting them to an AFC title game (taking the franchise from nothing into something). And is currently working on the Cowboys who were in absolute horrible shape when he got here and as of right now they are considered one of the best teams in the NFC.

If you go by this logic of superbowl titles being the way to measure coaches against eachother then Bellichick is a "better coach" than Tom Landry. I would have to say that is a false statement and I think many football fans would agree. You have to take the entire coaching legacy into consideration (all of their accomplishments) not just superbowl titles.

Fair enough but which franchise did Parcells rebuild by himself without Bellichek at his disposal. At the end of last season, his record with the Cowboys was below .500. This year remains to be seen although it looks promising.

The true litmus test for Parcells is his tenure with the Cowboys. He has no Bellichek this time. Can he win without Bellichek? We won't know the answer to that question until he leaves the organization.

 

[RCowboyFan]

Is not written by him. I am not sure why the obvious is not pointed out. Its by the author David Halberstam.

So I see bunch of people going back and forth about BB dissing BP etc., but I am not sure if this the book that Bill Belichek distanced himself from it or another book, where he basically was apparently dissing BP about talking to other teams while or during the week of NE playing in SB, in BP era.

Just wanted to pointed that out, since seems like that thread will be a long one I guess Mods if you want to merge it into that one, feel free.