Blackistone: Coaching hires prove NFL discriminates

[aikemirv]

You want to take one example and apply it to decades and decades of obvious discrimination.

Amazing...

- Mike G.

Nope, I wanted to point out that Blackistone is saying that these guys did not get interviews because they were black, and that just may not be true.

I don't believe the guy in Minnesota is a racist against his own race of course but it does give some credence to the idea that there are other reasons these guys may not get hired!!

 

[burmafrd]

Many today do not really even think about race unless someone starts to whine and cry about it. then they feel guilty about not thinking about race- BUT THAT IS EXACTLY THE POINT. If you are not thinking about race then you are very likely not racist. ITS THOSE that do nothing except cry about race that are most likely more racist. Jackson and the rest of that type know that if racism disappears then they are out of the free lunch they have enjoyed. Those that make the most noise - they are the ones that are probably more racist then just about anyone else. they are the ones that think everything is about race-morons.

 

[Phoenix-Talon]

You see, this is why these type of threads 'get ugly'

Trust me ...this is not ugly!

 

[NinePointOh]

Well, did he interview all these black coaches on the list and if he did not then why did he not?

The Vikings interviewed Ted Cottrell and Jim Caldwell.

 

[neosapien23]

Many today do not really even think about race unless someone starts to whine and cry about it. then they feel guilty about not thinking about race- BUT THAT IS EXACTLY THE POINT. If you are not thinking about race then you are very likely not racist. ITS THOSE that do nothing except cry about race that are most likely more racist. Jackson and the rest of that type know that if racism disappears then they are out of the free lunch they have enjoyed. Those that make the most noise - they are the ones that are probably more racist then just about anyone else. they are the ones that think everything is about race-morons.

There has been racism in the NFL in the past. I do think that it has gotten to the point where racism is not prevalent as it used to be. America was founded with slavery being protected in the constitition. Slaves were viewed as property and not people. Our country still has problems with minorities getting hired, that is why Affirmative Action was created in the first place. Congress would not have taken action if it wasn't a problem.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

Nope, I wanted to point out that Blackistone is saying that these guys did not get interviews because they were black, and that just may not be true.

I don't believe the guy in Minnesota is a racist against his own race of course but it does give some credence to the idea that there are other reasons these guys may not get hired!!

Okay, we really need to step back here and ask ourselves what is it Mr. Blackistone is trying to get at here.

Is he saying the NFL run amuck with racists?

Is he saying that a few teams are amuck with racists?

As I have stated before:

Typically, when speaking about human nature, most individuals prefer to be surrounded, whether in their personal life or their public life by people that they...

--Have alot in common with
--Look like they do
--Share common morals and values
--Talk as they talk
--Share a common heritage

etc etc

I firmly believe this. Now, it is not to say people wont hire people that are not so similar to them, I am just saying I think that is what most humans do when eventuating who they hang with, who they hire, who they, who they promote etc etc.

The Cochran(R.I.P.)/Mehri Board wanted to get minorities at least in the interview room, to at least show the Big Whigs that they are capable of doing the job.

I really see no problem with that.

Just like Bill Parcells use to tell you in his Press Conferences on methods he would use to fire up players. He would tell his Veteran players that he was going to bring in another player to take his spot and he said all of the players that he considers "Bill Parcells Guys" all welcomed the challenge.

If I was Payton, McCarthy etc etc, I wouldnt mind seeing minorities getting at least an interview. For one, it doesnt keep them from getting an interview and two, if I am confident in my skills, I will feel I will get the job regardless.

Now if the Rooney Rule set "HIRING" requirements, that is a different can of worms....but suffice it to say, we are merely talking about an interview here....

- Mike G.

 

[WoodysGirl]

Many today do not really even think about race unless someone starts to whine and cry about it. then they feel guilty about not thinking about race- BUT THAT IS EXACTLY THE POINT. If you are not thinking about race then you are very likely not racist. ITS THOSE that do nothing except cry about race that are most likely more racist. Jackson and the rest of that type know that if racism disappears then they are out of the free lunch they have enjoyed. Those that make the most noise - they are the ones that are probably more racist then just about anyone else. they are the ones that think everything is about race-morons.

Unless you've been a victim of racism, I can't imagine you even being able to seriously speak on what you see as crying and whining.

 

[burmafrd]

Progress is steady and impressive. Racism is much less of a problem then it was 10-20 years ago. But you would never know it from listening to Jackson and others. Affirmative action is a two edged sword- it did force hiring but it also put forth the proposition that any minority hired was hired DUE to his race. He/she might not have been qualified- but they were of the right color to get the job. I beleive in 100 years most historians will call affirmative action a mistake in many areas.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

Many today do not really even think about race unless someone starts to whine and cry about it. then they feel guilty about not thinking about race- BUT THAT IS EXACTLY THE POINT. If you are not thinking about race then you are very likely not racist. ITS THOSE that do nothing except cry about race that are most likely more racist. Jackson and the rest of that type know that if racism disappears then they are out of the free lunch they have enjoyed. Those that make the most noise - they are the ones that are probably more racist then just about anyone else. they are the ones that think everything is about race-morons.

Who's point of view are you speaking from.

There was only one perfect person who ever lived on this earth (depending on what you beleive), and that was Jesus Christ.

Everyone else are quite imperfect.

Unless you are a mind reader, then you dont know what everyone else is thinking.

Why do you think all of the Studies on Race are/have been done by Colleges, U.S. Government, Private Sector Firms etc etc?

It is because nobody can read everyone's mind so you have to collect the data and see if you can see trends and use it as a guide to help you see what is going on in America.

The Cochran/Mehri Board did just that and the data was pretty conclusive and the NFL most certainly thought it was too.

 

[MadCow]

One of the reported reasons for Crennel not receiving a head coaching position in years past was that the line between him and Belichick was not clear. For this reason, Crennel had to wait for his chance to be a head coach. To be fair, this is the same reason that Gary Kubiak has been overlooked for so long in Denver.

I actually was okay with the aforementioned reasoning. HOWEVER... Eric Mangini has been the Patriot's DC for one year and suddenly he's the next coaching superstar. What happened to the line being cloudy? Maybe its not malicious but is definitely a bias. For that reason, I feel that broaching the subject of race discrimination is appropriate in this instance.

BTW, there was also a reported bias against Charlie Weis if you remember. Not race of course but his weight. At one time, he was considered morbidly obese.

 

[neosapien23]

Progress is steady and impressive. Racism is much less of a problem then it was 10-20 years ago. But you would never know it from listening to Jackson and others. Affirmative action is a two edged sword- it did force hiring but it also put forth the proposition that any minority hired was hired DUE to his race. He/she might not have been qualified- but they were of the right color to get the job. I beleive in 100 years most historians will call affirmative action a mistake in many areas.

Affirmative action is needed to make up for past mistakes. Who is going to get better grades in the SAT, a minority that excells in a public shool or another canidate that is excelling in a private school? People have to be given some kind of equalizer due to their economic and social conditions. The goal of Affirmative Action is too be so effective that it is abolished in 20 years. With more minorities gettin into colleges, I'd say it's working. The only way to break poverty is to help the impoverished. It does stink that more qualified white people are sometimes overlooked, but they aren't the ones that need help.

 

[aikemirv]

Okay, we really need to step back here and ask ourselves what is it Mr. Blackistone is trying to get at here.

Is he saying the NFL run amuck with racists?

Is he saying that a few teams are amuck with racists?

As I have stated before:

Typically, when speaking about human nature, most individuals prefer to be surrounded, whether in their personal life or their public life by people that they...

--Have alot in common with
--Look like they do
--Share common morals and values
--Talk as they talk
--Share a common heritage

etc etc

I firmly believe this. Now, it is not to say people wont hire people that are not so similar to them, I am just saying I think that is what most humans do when eventuating who they hang with, who they hire, who they, who they promote etc etc.

The Cochran(R.I.P.)/Mehri Board wanted to get minorities at least in the interview room, to at least show the Big Whigs that they are capable of doing the job.

I really see no problem with that.

Just like Bill Parcells use to tell you in his Press Conferences on methods he would use to fire up players. He would tell his Veteran players that he was going to bring in another player to take his spot and he said all of the players that he considers "Bill Parcells Guys" all welcomed the challenge.

If I was Payton, McCarthy etc etc, I wouldnt mind seeing minorities getting at least an interview. For one, it doesnt keep them from getting an interview and two, if I am confident in my skills, I will feel I will get the job regardless.

Now if the Rooney Rule set "HIRING" requirements, that is a different can of worms....but suffice it to say, we are merely talking about an interview here....

- Mike G.

See, I don't need to take a step back here because I never said Blackistone was wrong, I said he may be right in some cases.

I just said that he did not do the necessary research to write that article and say racism was still a problem as I have outlined in a previous posts.

Naming 4 people who are qualified who did not get the position is not enough. How many white people hold the same qualifications and did not get an interview - did he even check that out?

He is taking a group of four guys and saying that since they were not hired racism still exist in the NFL. Maybe he is right, maybe he is not.

How many black assistant coaches have been hired in the past decade? would you not assume that if that increased to a great deal then we were on the right track. It would be a natural progression of things if there were a large increase in assistant hires.

Obviously there is progression because he listed 4 guys who very well may be qualified (not to mention Shell and Rhodes). Were there that many to mention last year at this time or in prior years. It takes time. Blackistone list 6 guys are currently ready to be NFL coaches - thats great - they have taken advantage of their opportunities, made a name for themselves, worked there way up through the ranks.

Is that not the progress you were looking for?

 

[tyke1doe]

Super Bowls.

So did Sherman Lewis, and he was Green Bay's offensive coordinator when the Packers won the Super Bowl.

Super Bowl. Coached with Parcells.

Uh, last time I checked his credentials, Payton wasn't an offensive coordinator or a quarterback coach with a Super Bowl team. As for coaching with Parcells, correct me if I'm wrong but has Parcells taken the Cowboys to the Super Bowl yet?

Brett Favre?

You do know that McCarthy became Packer's QB coach AFTER Favre established himself as one of the elite QBs in the league and AFTER Favre's Super Bowl run.

Unless you're going to give McCarthy credit for all those wild, erratic interceptions Favre now throws. Then we know he wasn't qualified to become a head coach.

I think coaches like Henderson deserve a shot. Gray also. But to suggest that an owner compromise what he thinks is the best man for the job based on the race of the candidate is crazy.

You just don't get it. No one is saying hire someone based solely on race. But give a black position or coordinator a chance to impress you like so many other candidates.

If he can't do that, then fire who you feel should get the job. But at least give one the chance.

Turner has rings too.

The point isn't that Turner has rings. The point is that he keeps on getting head coaching jobs when he has shown zilch. Okay, the first job, I can buy that. But subsequent jobs?

He should return to offensive coordinator. Wait, he has ... with the 49ers.

That's where he belongs, a coordinator. Give someone else a chance.

 

[tyke1doe]

Okay, we really need to step back here and ask ourselves what is it Mr. Blackistone is trying to get at here.

Is he saying the NFL run amuck with racists?

Is he saying that a few teams are amuck with racists?

As I have stated before:

Typically, when speaking about human nature, most individuals prefer to be surrounded, whether in their personal life or their public life by people that they...

--Have alot in common with
--Look like they do
--Share common morals and values
--Talk as they talk
--Share a common heritage

etc etc

I firmly believe this. Now, it is not to say people wont hire people that are not so similar to them, I am just saying I think that is what most humans do when eventuating who they hang with, who they hire, who they, who they promote etc etc.

The Cochran(R.I.P.)/Mehri Board wanted to get minorities at least in the interview room, to at least show the Big Whigs that they are capable of doing the job.

I really see no problem with that.

Just like Bill Parcells use to tell you in his Press Conferences on methods he would use to fire up players. He would tell his Veteran players that he was going to bring in another player to take his spot and he said all of the players that he considers "Bill Parcells Guys" all welcomed the challenge.

If I was Payton, McCarthy etc etc, I wouldnt mind seeing minorities getting at least an interview. For one, it doesnt keep them from getting an interview and two, if I am confident in my skills, I will feel I will get the job regardless.

Now if the Rooney Rule set "HIRING" requirements, that is a different can of worms....but suffice it to say, we are merely talking about an interview here....

- Mike G.

An Excellent Post.

 

[tyke1doe]

Naming 4 people who are qualified who did not get the position is not enough. How many white people hold the same qualifications and did not get an interview - did he even check that out?

Sigh.

He doesn't need to because white coaches don't have a problem getting jobs.

Please indicate one season where there were mulitple coaching jobs available and all blacks were hired?

No one is complaining about white guys not being interviewed because that's not the problem nor the issue.

He gave you four candidates who are equally qualified and probably more so qualified than the white candidates who received head coaching jobs but were not considered.

He proved his point, which is that often times successful black candidates don't get interviewed for these jobs.

He proved his basic premise. Sorry, you can't see that or don't want to.

 

[aikemirv]

Sigh.

He doesn't need to because white coaches don't have a problem getting jobs.

Please indicate one season where there were mulitple coaching jobs available and all blacks were hired?

No one is complaining about white guys not being interviewed because that's not the problem nor the issue.

He gave you four candidates who are equally qualified and probably more so qualified than the white candidates who received head coaching jobs but were not considered.

He proved his point, which is that often times successful black candidates don't get interviewed for these jobs.

He proved his basic premise. Sorry, you can't see that or don't want to.

Yes he does have to do that - I'm sorry you don't understand.

For ex.

Let's say there are 20 white assistants who are as equally qualified and only 10 of them got interviewed for a position of head coach, while there are 6 black assistants/excoaches and 3 of them got interviewed for a position of head coach.

Would you say there is racism if that is the case. He proved nothing at all, nothing. Not one interview with an owner, not one interview with one of these qualified guys who would say "i have been discrimated against".

That is not proof!!!!

 

[Paniolo22]

1-Wasn't Payton a Coordinator with the G-Men when the went to the SuperBowl?

2-Why wasn't it a big deal that the Chiefs didn't interview anyone but Herm Edwards.

3- I think it's a shame that the Lewis' (Tim and Sherm)are not Head Coaches, Rivera not so much. Lovie Smith is a defensive coach and takes a lot of credit for the defense.

4- I'm not too upset that Mo Carthon isn't a head coach. Have you heard the guy speak? Not only do I want my coach to be good football wise, but also represent my franchise. I can't see how Carthon interviews well after listening to him speak a few times.

 

[tyke1doe]

Progress is steady and impressive. Racism is much less of a problem then it was 10-20 years ago. But you would never know it from listening to Jackson and others. Affirmative action is a two edged sword- it did force hiring but it also put forth the proposition that any minority hired was hired DUE to his race. He/she might not have been qualified- but they were of the right color to get the job. I beleive in 100 years most historians will call affirmative action a mistake in many areas.

As Malcolm X once said, "When the White man stole America from the Indians that was Affirmative Action."

Please, let's not get cocky and try to bad mouth AA as an ineffective policy because truth be told white folks used race long before AA was ever an issue to get ahead in society.

You don't want me to mention property, jobs and lives stolen from black folks because of America's AA policy favoring whites now do you?

Let's not go there.

 

[tyke1doe]

Yes he does have to do that - I'm sorry you don't understand.

For ex.

Let's say there are 20 white assistants who are as equally qualified and only 10 of them got interviewed for a position of head coach, while there are 6 black assistants/excoaches and 3 of them got interviewed for a position of head coach.

Would you say there is racism if that is the case. He proved nothing at all, nothing. Not one interview with an owner, not one interview with one of these qualified guys who would say "i have been discrimated against".

That is not proof!!!!

You don't even follow your own examples.

First, how does your example prove that whites were discriminated against? They weren't. Ten of them still got interviewed while only three blacks got interviewed. They have greater numbers in the interviewing process.

LOL!

You can't even pick an example that fits your own argument.

Now back to his point:

Hiring white candidates is not an issue. So he doesn't have to show how many whites were passed over for jobs, especially since the majority of the jobs are going to white men.

He just has to show the qualification of black candidates who weren't interviewed and match them with the qualification of white candidates who did get jobs.

But I don't expect you to understand.

 

[ddh33]

I'm all for everyone getting a fair shot and the best man being able to get the job.

I don't see how there was a black candidate that was superior. In fact, I think the best coach available was Mike Sherman, and it looks like he's not going to have a job at all.