Bobby Carpenter: Is it just me?

[MichaelWinicki]

I agree, Chief. I've been watching Carpenter like we all have and tho I haven't seen him make the constant over-running errors I've seen many rookie lbs do over the years, and tho I think his reaction time is typical for a kid with so much on his plate, I also don't think he is ever going to be anything like 'elite', was not drafted to be 'the man', and is going to be an important cog in the defensive wheel in years to come, but never the hub.

Was he drafted too high. Probably. But he evidently has the the makings of a sound, smart linebacker whose stability will pay for itself many times over the years.

We're dealing with a lot of issue here Barb...

The big challenge from my perspective is that the entire defense hasn't be out there much over the course of the first 3 games. And once you subtract the time spent out there by others either on the first team, on the third team or since traded (Shanle)-- that doesn't leave a lot of plays for Carpenter to be out there.

The fact is I think most people forgot that Greg Ellis is a former 1st round pick with a decent amount of athletic ability and some savvy. Once he got his head 'round' this whole position switch he's taken to it like a duck to water. I'm not surprised that once he put his mind to it that he's capable of doing a more than credible job-- yes even better than what Carp could do-- by far at this point.

I think Ellis has quite frankly shocked the entire organization (except for Bill of course. ). If things had gone smoother in the offseason OR they had started doing this LAST SEASON (which probably would have been a smart move given how bad we were at that position after Al went down) then I'm guessing we wouldn't have drafted a LB #1 this past April.

But the bottom line is I think Carpenter will be just fine. Would have I liked a "starter" being drafted in round 1? You bet! I just not sure outside of FS and TE if there was anyone at #18 we could have drafted that would have been a starter in '06--- and I kinda doubt it. After Ferguson went off the board there weren't any lineman at #18 that would have started in my honest opinion.

 

[DLCassidy]

Once he got his head 'round' this whole position switch he's taken to it like a duck to water.

Do ducks take to water kicking and screaming?

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Do ducks take to water kicking and screaming?

Yeah, the first few days were somewhat painful.

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

Hey guys, I attended the game and watched him closely, looked like he was out of position some and his timing is a little off. BUT when I got home and watched the TIVO he indeed made some plays.

On one running play in particuliar impressed me when the OG fired off the line and clamped onto Bobby with a good hard check. Carpenter took on the block, shedded the the big lineman, at the last second put his shoulder down into the ball carrier and the ball shot out for a fumble. The Whinners recovered the ball but it was actually quite a play by Carp, I think he is just experiencing the rookie curve at tha moment.

 

[tomson75]

2nd half defensive play by play:

1st and 10 - play action. Carpenter drops back into solid coverage. pass to sideline complete for first down. A. Glenn in tight coverage. penalty negates play.

2nd and 16 - again, Carpenter drops back into good zone coverage on the slot receiver. pass complete to Bryant left sideline for 14 yards. Reeves in coverage.

3rd and 2 - run up the middle for 4 yards. fullback succesfully engages and seals off Carpenter. Fowler with the stop. K. Coleman missed tackle in backfield.

1st and 10 - play action. both Fowler and Carpenter bite on the QB rollout. Carpenter first to recover and would have been the second man to the ballcarrier had it not been incomplete to the right side. Singleton in coverage.

2nd and 10 - run to the right side for no gain. Hatcher and A. Glenn on the tackle. never got to the second level, but it looked like Carpenter would not have been able to make a play on this one.

3rd and 10 - Carpenter blitzes inside and is blocked by the center and LG. Hatcher beats the LT to the outside for the first of two sacks.

next series.

1st and 10 - run up the middle for 4 yards. Carpenter blocked by LG, no chance on the play.

2nd and 6 - Carpenter switches to opposite inside position. run to the right side for 6 yards. Both Carpenter and Folwler shed blocks by the LG and RG respectively. Fowler makes the tackle at the sideline just ahead of Carpenter.

1st and 10 - Carpenter back to WILB position. short pass to the RB on the left side. Either Fowler or Carpenter missed their assignment on this one, and both LB's looked lost. gain of 21 yards.

1st and 10 - pass to the goalline incomplete. zone coverage. Fowler and Carpenter blanket Vernon Davis but Fowler is called for defensive holding.

1st and 10 - run to the left for 3 yards. Hatcher, Fowler, and Carpenter all in position to make the stop. i'd give it to Fowler.

2nd and 7 - zone coverage in the middle for Carpenter. Hatcher misses a chip on V. Davis who catches a 16 yard pass to the left for a TD. Fowler looked lost on this one. ZERO pass rush.

next series:

1st and 10 - couldn't see the beginning of the play because of lame Haley interview. but the result was a run to the outside left where Carpenter makes the tackle for a 2 yard gain.

2nd and 8 - short pass over the middle complete for 8 yards. Fowler (primary) and Carpenter on the tackle.

1st and 10 - run up the middle. Carpenter sheds a block from the RG and puts his shoulder into the ball carrier, creating a fumble. 49rs recover.

2nd and 6 - run to the right side for 3 yards. Carpenter makes the tackle. Fowler also looked good on this play absorbing two blockers ahead of Carpenter.

3rd and 3 - Carpenter back to opposite ILB position. dropped into zone coverage to the left side. pass complete to the right side (after looking left) for 13 yards. no pass rush.

1st and 10 - Carpenter drops into coverage on the slot receiver. short dump off pass to tight end good for 8 yards. coverage and tackle by Fowler.

2nd and 2 - no play. false start.

2nd and 7 - Carpenter again drops back in coverage on tight end. short pass to right side flats falls incomplete. big ol' M. Stanley flailing about in coverage.

3rd and 7 - Carpenter blitzes up the middle easily avoiding the center and LG. flushes QB to right side missing sack by inches. Burnett picks up a sack on the play.

next series:

1st and 10 - Hatcher beats the LT to outside for his second sack of the game. Carpenter has good coverage on TE.

2nd and 15 - Carpenter drops back into zone coverage along side of Burnett and Fowler. pass intended deep over the middle is TIPPED by Carpenter, causing the ball to go through the receiver's hands and off of Reeves' knee. the ball bounces back towards the line of scrimmage where Carpenter, Burnett, and a 49rs WR jump simultaniously for the INT. no one comes down with the ball.

3rd and 15 - good coverage and a pass rush by Hatcher and Ratliff casue the 49rs QB to scramble out of the pocket. Ratliff and Carpenter both miss diving tackles. I can only assume this is the play that most of Capenter's detractors on this board are referring to when they claim he is slow. watch this again. he IS slow to recognize that the QB was out of the pocket. he doesn't see him until the QB has already made a move to the left, causing Carpenter to make a complete change of direction. it would have been a tough play for any LB on this team, including Ware or Burnett, our most athletic linebackers. anyway, the play is stopped about a yard short of the first down by A. Glenn.


That being the last play for our defense might have left a sour taste in some poster's mouths, but it was by no means necassary to start threads claiming Carpenter to be a bust or not worth a first round pick.

In what, 23 plays, Carpenter has 3 tackles, 1 assist, 1 forced fumble, 1 pass defensed, and a QB pressure. hmmm. yeah, he sucks...

 

[MichaelWinicki]

2nd half defensive play by play:

1st and 10 - play action. Carpenter drops back into solid coverage. pass to sideline complete for first down. A. Glenn in tight coverage. penalty negates play.

2nd and 16 - again, Carpenter drops back into good zone coverage on the slot receiver. pass complete to Bryant left sideline for 14 yards. Reeves in coverage.

3rd and 2 - run up the middle for 4 yards. fullback succesfully engages and seals off Carpenter. Fowler with the stop. K. Coleman missed tackle in backfield.

1st and 10 - play action. both Fowler and Carpenter bite on the QB rollout. Carpenter first to recover and would have been the second man to the ballcarrier had it not been incomplete to the right side. Singleton in coverage.

2nd and 10 - run to the right side for no gain. Hatcher and A. Glenn on the tackle. never got to the second level, but it looked like Carpenter would not have been able to make a play on this one.

3rd and 10 - Carpenter blitzes inside and is blocked by the center and LG. Hatcher beats the LT to the outside for the first of two sacks.

next series.

1st and 10 - run up the middle for 4 yards. Carpenter blocked by LG, no chance on the play.

2nd and 6 - Carpenter switches to opposite inside position. run to the right side for 6 yards. Both Carpenter and Folwler shed blocks by the LG and RG respectively. Fowler makes the tackle at the sideline just ahead of Carpenter.

1st and 10 - Carpenter back to WILB position. short pass to the RB on the left side. Either Fowler or Carpenter missed their assignment on this one, and both LB's looked lost. gain of 21 yards.

1st and 10 - pass to the goalline incomplete. zone coverage. Fowler and Carpenter blanket Vernon Davis but Fowler is called for defensive holding.

1st and 10 - run to the left for 3 yards. Hatcher, Fowler, and Carpenter all in position to make the stop. i'd give it to Fowler.

2nd and 7 - zone coverage in the middle for Carpenter. Hatcher misses a chip on V. Davis who catches a 16 yard pass to the left for a TD. Fowler looked lost on this one. ZERO pass rush.

next series:

1st and 10 - couldn't see the beginning of the play because of lame Haley interview. but the result was a run to the outside left where Carpenter makes the tackle for a 2 yard gain.

2nd and 8 - short pass over the middle complete for 8 yards. Fowler (primary) and Carpenter on the tackle.

1st and 10 - run up the middle. Carpenter sheds a block from the RG and puts his shoulder into the ball carrier, creating a fumble. 49rs recover.

2nd and 6 - run to the right side for 3 yards. Carpenter makes the tackle. Fowler also looked good on this play absorbing two blockers ahead of Carpenter.

3rd and 3 - Carpenter back to opposite ILB position. dropped into zone coverage to the left side. pass complete to the right side (after looking left) for 13 yards. no pass rush.

1st and 10 - Carpenter drops into coverage on the slot receiver. short dump off pass to tight end good for 8 yards. coverage and tackle by Fowler.

2nd and 2 - no play. false start.

2nd and 7 - Carpenter again drops back in coverage on tight end. short pass to right side flats falls incomplete. big ol' M. Stanley flailing about in coverage.

3rd and 7 - Carpenter blitzes up the middle easily avoiding the center and LG. flushes QB to right side missing sack by inches. Burnett picks up a sack on the play.

next series:

1st and 10 - Hatcher beats the LT to outside for his second sack of the game. Carpenter has good coverage on TE.

2nd and 15 - Carpenter drops back into zone coverage along side of Burnett and Fowler. pass intended deep over the middle is TIPPED by Carpenter, causing the ball to go through the receiver's hands and off of Reeves' knee. the ball bounces back towards the line of scrimmage where Carpenter, Burnett, and a 49rs WR jump simultaniously for the INT. no one comes down with the ball.

3rd and 15 - good coverage and a pass rush by Hatcher and Ratliff casue the 49rs QB to scramble out of the pocket. Ratliff and Carpenter both miss diving tackles. I can only assume this is the play that most of Capenter's detractors on this board are referring to when they claim he is slow. watch this again. he IS slow to recognize that the QB was out of the pocket. he doesn't see him until the QB has already made a move to the left, causing Carpenter to make a complete change of direction. it would have been a tough play for any LB on this team, including Ware or Burnett, our most athletic linebackers. anyway, the play is stopped about a yard short of the first down by A. Glenn.


That being the last play for our defense might have left a sour taste in some poster's mouths, but it was by no means necassary to start threads claiming Carpenter to be a bust or not worth a first round pick.

In what, 23 plays, Carpenter has 3 tackles, 1 assist, 1 forced fumble, 1 pass defensed, and a QB pressure. hmmm. yeah, he sucks...

Well I guess someone just brought a gun to a knife fight.

I pine for things like this when someone uses facts to *****slap someone else just bringing "opinion".

 

[MiStar]

thanks, tomson75. That was very informative.

 

[LaTunaNostra]

Wow, great summary, Tomson 75, but too bad you didn't appreciate the Haley "The Elephant' graphic blocking half of an offensive drive!

Reading thru your synopsis, it strikes me that both coverage and run assignments are being absorbed at a pretty decent rookie pace.

 

[DallasDomination]

If I expected big things from him I would need patience but I dont so it doesnt bother me. Hopefully he becomes a decent player in the near future.

 

[DeaconMoss]

Guys it is obviously too soon to say that hes a bust but Im really beginning too wonder when hes going to show something. If he swas playing against other first teameers then of course the learning curve is steeper.

Im not saying run to the hills but none of you are a bit concerned hes not showing ANYTHING?

Forced a fumble that should have been recovered last night. Tackled very solidly and bull rushed the QB once. Flushed out of the pocket several times. He is playing behind a pair of 100+ tackle guys in the middle and 2 pro bowlers on the outside. What the heck is he supposed to do?

 

[tomson75]

Wow, great summary, Tomson 75, but too bad you didn't appreciate the Haley "The Elephant' graphic blocking half of an offensive drive!

Reading thru your synopsis, it strikes me that both coverage and run assignments are being absorbed at a pretty decent rookie pace.

oh i did!! that interveiw was painful to listen to though.

As far as the recap goes, you're welcome. While i'm not in awe of Carpenters performance myself, i can't let people incapable of paying attention to what's going on berate a player becasue they "didn't feel his overwhelming presence". its ridiculous...

after watching the game over, however, he showed his athletic ability, albeit subtly. when his head catches up and he doesnt' have to think so much, IMO, he's going to be pretty darn good.

 

[marchetta]

I don't think there's any way Carpenter will be a bust.

But I doubt he was the best choice at No. 18, or the 18th-best player in the draft.

I would prefer drafting guys with more upside in the first two rounds ... or as Inman would say, take the guy with the best chance to be in the Ring of Honor. You may miss occasionally, but that's where you can pick guys with special ability. Elite athletes that make game-changing plays.

Having watched all three preseason games, I think Carpenter will be fine. But, athletically, he's not special. He's solid. If you want "solid" with your first-round pick, then that's fine.

Same thing with Anthony Fasano. I don't see a special athlete. I see a solid, workmanlike plugger.

They both look like "need" picks to me.

I couldn't have said it any better myself!

 

[LaTunaNostra]

after watching the game over, however, he showed his athletic ability, albeit subtly. when his head catches up and he doesnt' have to think so much, IMO, he's going to be pretty darn good.

I don't have as astute an eye for lb play as you do, but I have noticed a lack of that freelancing tendency that plagued Bradie James early on, for example, the kind that can rob even an Arrington of his full potential.

I heard Jerry say when Carpenter was drafted that he would be 'disappointed' if Bobby weren't starting sometime this year. But you sure didn't hear BILL say it.

I have witnessed Bill develop many linebackers over the years..saw his struggle for years with first round pick James Farrior til he 'got it', saw him and Belichick make a sound technician out of Marvin Jones (the kind of player I think Bobby will be), saw even a vet like Bryan Cox find more discipine..not everyone in a Parcells 3-4 is gonna be LT or Mo Lewis. Ware might be, but Bobby's role will be equally important in its own way.

It's all good from where I am sitting...a chance to see Bill develop his final crop of young LBs... see what Ellis can become as well...it's freakin priceless!

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

Well the game is on NFL Network again. Gotta luv it BTW.

Watch Carp he plays alot in this game. Not a bad showing for a rookie.

 

[tomson75]

I don't have as astute an eye for lb play as you do, but I have noticed a lack of that freelancing tendency that plagued Bradie James early on, for example, the kind that can rob even an Arrington of his full potential.

I heard Jerry say when Carpenter was drafted that he would be 'disappointed' if Bobby weren't starting sometime this year. But you sure didn't hear BILL say it.

I have witnessed Bill develop many linebackers over the years..saw his struggle for years with first round pick James Farrior til he 'got it', saw him and Belichick make a sound technician out of Marvin Jones (the kind of player I think Bobby will be), saw even a vet like Bryan Cox find more discipine..not everyone in a Parcells 3-4 is gonna be LT or Mo Lewis. Ware might be, but Bobby's role will be equally important in its own way.

It's all good from where I am sitting...a chance to see Bill develop his final crop of young LBs... see what Ellis can become as well...it's freakin priceless!

I hear that. If Ellis can really adapt to standing up, and it looks like he can, this LB corps could be special. By having Ware and Ellis as proven outside pass rush threats, James' newfound ability to bring leadership and a sorely missed "attitude", Ayodele and Carpenter capable of doing their jobs effectively...i'd have to say i haven't been this excited in 15 years.

Also, to create a dominant 3-4 scheme, you need LB's capable of rushing the QB at all four positions. We have that now. This as where i think Carpenter is going to end up earning a starting job later in the year. One thing is for sure, its going to be fun to watch.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Forced a fumble that should have been recovered last night. Tackled very solidly and bull rushed the QB once. Flushed out of the pocket several times. He is playing behind a pair of 100+ tackle guys in the middle and 2 pro bowlers on the outside. What the heck is he supposed to do?

I guess. I dont have the tivo nor the proclivity to go and review the tape. At the same time I remember that supposed tipped ball and I initially thought he had tipped but after the replay on the TV he hadnt.

Additionally, for all that, this review it failed to mention the two times at very least that game he left his feet and completely whiffed a tackle this.

The one thing all of you fail to recognize is that i realy really want Carp to play well. He is a Dallas Cowboy after all BUT what I saw is a bunch of other guys there ahead of him to make stops and a tendency for him to lose his feet and miss.

i am not a X-Dawg which is just trying to stir the proverbial pot with senseless negativity. Nor I this an attempt to be able to say I told you so later. I watched this guy almost exclusively when the second team was out there because he is a guy I want to see excel.

I have yet to see it.

 

[LaTunaNostra]

The one thing all of you fail to recognize is that i realy really want Carp to play well.

That's clear enough, Fuzzy...all your comments read like desire to see a player do well, not like criticism for criticism's sake.

I have a strong hankering to see him do well - fast - too. Even tho he was a first round pick, he played in the shadow of his much better known lb teammate at OSU, so Bobby has that blue collar 'feel' to him I can really get behind.

Speaking of non-elite but compelling - how 'bout that AH coverage on AB last night!

AH - my 'main man' on D.

 

[tomson75]

I guess. I dont have the tivo nor the proclivity to go and review the tape. At the same time I remember that supposed tipped ball and I initially thought he had tipped but after the replay on the TV he hadnt.

Additionally, for all that, this review it failed to mention the two times at very least that game he left his feet and completely whiffed a tackle this.

The one thing all of you fail to recognize is that i realy really want Carp to play well. He is a Dallas Cowboy after all BUT what I saw is a bunch of other guys there ahead of him to make stops and a tendency for him to lose his feet and miss.

i am not a X-Dawg which is just trying to stir the proverbial pot with senseless negativity. Nor I this an attempt to be able to say I told you so later. I watched this guy almost exclusively when the second team was out there because he is a guy I want to see excel.

I have yet to see it.

wrong. he DID tip the ball. i do have a DVR. i watched it several times. the announcers didn't even allude to the fact that the ball had been tipped, but it was. Carpenter made the play.

and if you go back to my recap, i do mention Carpenter's poor plays, i do mention his whifs on diving tackles. there were two, one from behind on his QB PRESSURE which ended in him diving at the Qb from behind, and is a very common occurence in that particular situation because he becomes reactive at that point. and another dive which, admittedly was worse. this one occured when the QB was flushed from the pocket. Carpenter was late at reacting becasue he was in coverage on the tight end. when he turned and saw the QB it was too late, he was in poor position to make the tackle...it happens. if anything, it shows that he's putting a tremendous amount of effort in a play he wasn't going to be able to make.

go back and watch the game before you spout about things you don't remember.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

wrong. he DID tip the ball. i do have a DVR. i watched it several times. the announcers didn't even allude to the fact that the ball had been tipped, but it was. Carpenter made the play.

and if you go back to my recap, i do mention Carpenter's poor plays, i do mention his whifs on diving tackles. there were two, one from behind on his QB PRESSURE which ended in him diving at the Qb from behind, and is a very common occurence in that particular situation because he becomes reactive at that point. and another dive which, admittedly was worse. this one occured when the QB was flushed from the pocket. Carpenter was late at reacting becasue he was in coverage on the tight end. when he turned and saw the QB it was too late, he was in poor position to make the tackle...it happens. if anything, it shows that he's putting a tremendous amount of effort in a play he wasn't going to be able to make.

go back and watch the game before you spout about things you don't remember.

You want to get nasty we can get nasty. Im trying to keep this civil and your diatribe is not helping. I looked at it twice cause I know what youre talking about. The sideline angle it looks like a tip but when they show behind the QB angle its clear it wasnt.

Tahts why the announcers didnt say anytthing. Because it didnt happen. Furthermore, your some average joe looking at this. Do you have any at all coaching experience that should make me really care what your 'opinion is?'

i think not. enjoy your dvr.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

That's clear enough, Fuzzy...all your comments read like desire to see a player do well, not like criticism for criticism's sake.

I have a strong hankering to see him do well - fast - too. Even tho he was a first round pick, he played in the shadow of his much better known lb teammate at OSU, so Bobby has that blue collar 'feel' to him I can really get behind.

Speaking of non-elite but compelling - how 'bout that AH coverage on AB last night!

AH - my 'main man' on D.

To me this is an issue of the Dallas secondary not getting the respect it deserves. Roy Williams is overrated. Newman isnt a blip on most peoples screen and Henry is overlooked as well.

Henry's play is elite when healthy has been elite whether or not he is tagged as such.