Breaking Down the ‘Boys: Where does Tyron Smith rank among NFL’s best left tackles?

[ShiningStar]

What would your expectation be?

my expectations wont be so much on the numbers, but if he could allow romo a few more seconds to complete plays. He doesnt have to be stellar in my book, just push the defender around so Romo can step up and make a play.

He needs to be consistent, i dont expect one good week one bad week, but i can understand teams loading up on his side.

Do I expect every player we draft to be awesome, no, but at this point i just want him consistent enough to get Romo that second or two to get the play down the field and not intercepted.

 

[Future]

my expectations wont be so much on the numbers, but if he could allow romo a few more seconds to complete plays. He doesnt have to be stellar in my book, just push the defender around so Romo can step up and make a play.

He needs to be consistent, i dont expect one good week one bad week, but i can understand teams loading up on his side.

Do I expect every player we draft to be awesome, no, but at this point i just want him consistent enough to get Romo that second or two to get the play down the field and not intercepted.

If we drafted Tyron in the 2nd round, I would agree with that. But when you take a tackle top 10, being less than stellar is a no-no, in my opinion.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

what a strange article.

first, he says that pressure rate trumps sacks. then, he ranks tyron smith as the 8th-best left tackle in the league -- despite the fact that he has a 6.0-percent rate, twice the average of the guys on his list, while ranking a guy with a pressure rate under 2.0-percent as the 13th-best left tackle in the league.

he doesn't explain how he calculated the pressure rate (is this his own research, a league-wide, official stat?), and he doesn't explain why he bucks his own logic in ranking the players.

also, he just makes up "projected" stats for tyron for the coming season. um, okay.

Pressure rate is a stat that i believe PFF and other sources like it calculate.. as i've seen it come up in other articles before this one. However, he does explain all the different variables he included in his ranking if you actually read the first couple paragraphs. He says age played a part, as well as how much time each players respective QB spends in the pocket before releasing the ball. So no, he isn't "bucking" his own logic in the piece. Whether everyone would agree that its reasonable or not is a different question though.

I do agree, it makes any OL's job easier though, when you have guys like Peyton or Brady who make quick decisions and get rid of the ball in the first couple seconds.

 

[ShiningStar]

If we drafted Tyron in the 2nd round, I would agree with that. But when you take a tackle top 10, being less than stellar is a no-no, in my opinion.

I would agree, but i dont know if hes going to be that kind of a player, I hope he does, but i no longer have expectations of our draft picks to be those players.

 

[burmafrd]

I think Smith is a bit overrated, actually. Obviously, he's developing and expected to get better. He's more or less on the curve I'd expect given that he plays such an important position, but he gave up a lot of pressure last year...more than I expected from him, even in a sophomore campaign and with the move to the left side, frankly.

Not sure I even understand Bales' ranking system here, as Smith looks good in terms of sacks given up--which Bales says he doesn't value all that highly--and then has a pressure rate twice what players below him on the list have given up.

He's a player I really expect to get better this season, given his age, experience, and the coaching changes we've made. But he's got plenty of room for improvement, as well. I actually thought Livings played better than Smith did for long stretches last season.

You think Costa is under rated and Smith Over rated? Wow. Just wow.

 

[burmafrd]

For a guy who had never played LT in any game that I could find before last year, I think he did pretty well. And he got better as the season progressed which is what is really important.

 

[Idgit]

You think Costa is under rated and Smith Over rated? Wow. Just wow.

Yep. I'm surprised that surprises you given how low the regard is for Phil Costa and how high the regard is for Tyron Smith. We're talking about crazy-time CZ ratings here, obviously.

I also think Tyron is clearly the better player playing at the more difficult position, of course.

 

[Crown Royal]

For a guy who had never played LT in any game that I could find before last year, I think he did pretty well. And he got better as the season progressed which is what is really important.

I think this is the most important thing about Tyron and why I have a lot of hope for him. I just don't want to be surprised if he isn't a complete dominant force there, because it was a VERY high risk to move him to LT.

Yep. I'm surprised that surprises you given how low the regard is for Phil Costa and how high the regard is for Tyron Smith. We're talking about crazy-time CZ ratings here, obviously.

I also think Tyron is clearly the better player playing at the more difficult position, of course.

I think this is very true and probably the best thing you can add to the post you made.

My opinion on Costa is this; possibly a very smidge of a hair underrated by the media and writers, but he has become highly overrated on this board based on his Baltimore game. He played very well against Baltimore, granted, but that doesn't make up for how poor he played in 2011. And regardless of the people who say "oh he wasn't that bad," well...he was. He was very bad in 2011, along with Kosier and whatever other scrub we rolled out at guard. I'm getting a feeling that a lot of people are on the Costa bandwagon in the hopes of being able to say "see, I told you so!" Which would be great, but I am not convinced he is the next Andre Gurode yet ( who also was awful his first 2-3 years before becoming awesome).

 

[Idgit]

I think this is the most important thing about Tyron and why I have a lot of hope for him. I just don't want to be surprised if he isn't a complete dominant force there, because it was a VERY high risk to move him to LT.



I think this is very true and probably the best thing you can add to the post you made.

My opinion on Costa is this; possibly a very smidge of a hair underrated by the media and writers, but he has become highly overrated on this board based on his Baltimore game. He played very well against Baltimore, granted, but that doesn't make up for how poor he played in 2011. And regardless of the people who say "oh he wasn't that bad," well...he was. He was very bad in 2011, along with Kosier and whatever other scrub we rolled out at guard. I'm getting a feeling that a lot of people are on the Costa bandwagon in the hopes of being able to say "see, I told you so!" Which would be great, but I am not convinced he is the next Andre Gurode yet ( who also was awful his first 2-3 years before becoming awesome).

Costa's ceiling--his very peak--is probably slightly better than adequate for an NFL starter for the next few years. I'll take that any day for a street free agent.

Honestly, I just appreciate how hard these guys have to work to even make a roster. That he was able to start for Gurode in 2011 was very impressive in my book, and you'd have to have monstrously unreal expectations for the player to not expect him to need time to develop during that first year. And he did improve that season. And he looked to me to have improved again in 2012. Not just in the BAL game, either.

Now, Frederick's probably going to take his job. Even if he's not better off the bat, the safe bet is he'll be better long term. That's good for the Cowboys, and I have no problem with it at all. I'd like it if Costa plays so well that the team considers moving Fred to RG, honestly, because that would also be a good thing. Either way, though, our lack of depth at C absolutely handicapped us last year. I completely understand why Callahan didn't want to risk going through that again.

I don't think either of them are likely to play for us at Gurode's level at any point. I'd love it if one of them did, but that's a high bar. Talk about your underrated Cowboys players. Gurode was a very, very good Center for a long time for us.

 

[xwalker]

Costa's ceiling--his very peak--is probably slightly better than adequate for an NFL starter for the next few years. I'll take that any day for a street free agent.

I don't see any physical reason that Costa's ceiling can't be higher other than short arms. He is very strong, has decent size at 6-3, 313 and had very good speed/quickness measureables.

I don't think either of them are likely to play for us at Gurode's level at any point. I'd love it if one of them did, but that's a high bar. Talk about your underrated Cowboys players. Gurode was a very, very good Center for a long time for us.

Yes, Gurode was underrated by many (not by the Cowboys considering what they paid him); however, I don't see any reason that Frederick can't be as good or better. Gurode definitely had some mental focus/awareness issues. I don't expect that to be an issue with Frederick. Gurode's best asset was his size/strength. He was not a super quick guy. Frederick actually seems very similar to Gurode physically.

Remember it took a few years for Gurode to become a good player.

 

[SportsGuru80]

He's going to be All Pro this year...

 

[JPostSam]

Pressure rate is a stat that i believe PFF and other sources like it calculate.. as i've seen it come up in other articles before this one. However, he does explain all the different variables he included in his ranking if you actually read the first couple paragraphs. He says age played a part, as well as how much time each players respective QB spends in the pocket before releasing the ball. So no, he isn't "bucking" his own logic in the piece. Whether everyone would agree that its reasonable or not is a different question though.

I do agree, it makes any OL's job easier though, when you have guys like Peyton or Brady who make quick decisions and get rid of the ball in the first couple seconds.

i read the whole thing.

what i did not see was the part where he aligned the qb's release and time in the pocket with the tackle's pressure rate to come up with a new statistic. the article makes it seem like that's what he did in his head... but then he undermined all that with a list based on criteria that he says are pretty worthless.

 

[burmafrd]

Costa's ceiling--his very peak--is probably slightly better than adequate for an NFL starter for the next few years. I'll take that any day for a street free agent.

Honestly, I just appreciate how hard these guys have to work to even make a roster. That he was able to start for Gurode in 2011 was very impressive in my book, and you'd have to have monstrously unreal expectations for the player to not expect him to need time to develop during that first year. And he did improve that season. And he looked to me to have improved again in 2012. Not just in the BAL game, either.

Now, Frederick's probably going to take his job. Even if he's not better off the bat, the safe bet is he'll be better long term. That's good for the Cowboys, and I have no problem with it at all. I'd like it if Costa plays so well that the team considers moving Fred to RG, honestly, because that would also be a good thing. Either way, though, our lack of depth at C absolutely handicapped us last year. I completely understand why Callahan didn't want to risk going through that again.

I don't think either of them are likely to play for us at Gurode's level at any point. I'd love it if one of them did, but that's a high bar. Talk about your underrated Cowboys players. Gurode was a very, very good Center for a long time for us.

Costa was not ABLE to start in 2011 and whoever on the cowboy staff that said so should have been road out of town on a rail complete with tar and feathers

 

[Idgit]

Costa was not ABLE to start in 2011 and whoever on the cowboy staff that said so should have been road out of town on a rail complete with tar and feathers

Yah, I don't think you're looking at his play in 2011 very objectively. Nor are you remembering the level Gurode was playing at at that point in his career very clearly.

Everybody wants to develop young players. Apparently, nobody wants to actually develop them if it means giving them snaps.

 

[mmillman]

The debate in the draft room was to go with Smith or Watt. If Smith doesn't play better this season it will be another huge miss for Dallas.

Smith has loads of potential, but has to start realizing it.

 

[Idgit]

The debate in the draft room was to go with Smith or Watt. If Smith doesn't play better this season it will be another huge miss for Dallas.

Smith has loads of potential, but has to start realizing it.

Watt's a better player, regardless. But it's ok with me if Smith continues on the path he's on. He's also incredibly young for a starting NFL player going into his third year, so he also represents great value over Watt in that regard, and that's actually pretty important. Given the position he plays, we may get 3-4 extra seasons out of that spot, and that's nothing to sneeze at.

 

[TheRomoSexual]

The debate in the draft room was to go with Smith or Watt. If Smith doesn't play better this season it will be another huge miss for Dallas.

Smith has loads of potential, but has to start realizing it.

Shortsighted and absurd analysis.

 

[Nation]

Watt's a better player, regardless. But it's ok with me if Smith continues on the path he's on.

I am of this feeling as well. Based on positional value I'd rather have an OT that is good for 2-3 All Pro's and 5-7 Pro Bowls in his career over a 3-4 DE who is good for 10 All Pro's and a Hall of Fame bust.

 

[TwoDeep3]

Another article where a writer takes stats, then manipulates the meaning of the stats to underscore the supposition of the writer.

This is a sterling example why I do not hold stats in great esteem.

Stats are like documentaries. They reflect the desires of the author/film maker, and in most all cases are skewed to make a point sound logical that doesn't.

 

[Idgit]

Another article where a writer takes stats, then manipulates the meaning of the stats to underscore the supposition of the writer.

This is a sterling example why I do not hold stats in great esteem.

Stats are like documentaries. They reflect the desires of the author/film maker, and in most all cases are skewed to make a point sound logical that doesn't.

Only, in this case, he's making the case for a statistic, and then drawing a conclusion that's not supported by the statistic he made the case for.