Bring back Watkins...

[Seven]

This is the kind of posting that just grates on people.

WHERE DID I SAY THE SAFETY HAD NO RESPONSIBILITY?

I merely said it was wrong to blame him - stopping that play is a secondary responsibility for him, but a primary responsiblity for the LB's and D-line.

Comparing Davis' responsibility on that run to Watkins getting burned deep multiple times - which is his primary responsibility to prevent - is an incredibly bogus attempt at logic.

Read the underlined italics first. (Pssst, it was a sweep play.) Now read the bold, 10 times.

 

[Fernando Fernandez]

***cough*** Defensive secondary coaches, defensive coordinator ***cough***

 

[aikemirv]

***cough*** Defensive secondary coaches, defensive coordinator ***cough***

Players making plays is all this is.

Players are in the position to make the play in all the cases that have been brought up in this thread and they have not done this. Period!!!!

 

[Seven]

***cough*** Defensive secondary coaches, defensive coordinator ***cough***

***asks*** you know this, how ***asks***

 

[Stautner]

Sorry, you're right. You didn't say NO responsibility.

I'm just saying that if Portis had made a great play to shake Davis, that would be one thing. But Davis ran to... Nowhere. He wasn't even close to touching Portis on that play.

And I bet Parcells would give him a good amount of the blame on that play, too.

I completely agree that Davis made took a poor angle and didn't make a play that he should have at least had a chance to make. All I'm saying is to put that in the same context as the multiple deep passes and long TD's Watkins has allowed is wrong.

 

[Stautner]

Read the underlined italics first. (Pssst, it was a sweep play.) Now read the bold, 10 times.

So, you think that stopping the sweep - making a play on his SECONDARY responsibility - is the equivalent of Watkins giving up multiple big plays and multiple TD's on deep passes, which are his PRIMARY responsibility?

Give it a rest - that doesn't stretch the bounds of logic, it never even comes close enough to it to do any stretching.

The reality is that while Davis isn't completely blameless on the Portis TD and while he did take a bad angle, the D-line and LB's are primarily to blame - stopping that play IS the job they are charged with above all others.

On the other hand, stopping the deep pass IS the job the FS is charged with above all others, and Watkins has failed in that and Davis, at least thus far, has not.

 

[aikemirv]

So, you think that stopping the sweep - making a play on his SECONDARY responsibility - is the equivalent of Watkins giving up multiple big plays and multiple TD's on deep passes, which are his PRIMARY responsibility?

Give it a rest - that doesn't stretch the bounds of logic, it never even comes close enough to it to do any stretching.

I know he did not give it up by himself but if he does not play the run well and a TD is the result of that flaw, primary or secondary, what is the real difference. The safety is the last line of defense. It is his primary responsibility to stop Portis, if Portis makes it to his level. He played it wrong and a TD is the result. A TD is a TD, if he plays it right Portis gets knocked out of bounds.

If R Williams does not get knocked down by the ref Watkins would still be starting today.

 

[Stautner]

I know he did not give it up by himself but if he does not play the run well and a TD is the result of that flaw, primary or secondary, what is the real difference. The safety is the last line of defense. It is his primary responsibility to stop Portis, if Portis makes it to his level. He played it wrong and a TD is the result. A TD is a TD, if he plays it right Portis gets knocked out of bounds.

If R Williams does not get knocked down by the ref Watkins would still be starting today.

The difference is in whether you should bench a guy for not successfully accomplishing his secondary responsibility on one play as opposed to benching a guy for failing to successfully accomplish his primary responsibility on multiple plays. That's the discussion - and weighing one agains the other makes no sense.

HERE'S WHAT I ADDED TO MY PREVIOUS POST THAT YOU DIDN'T SEE:

The reality is that while Davis isn't completely blameless on the Portis TD and while he did take a bad angle, the D-line and LB's are primarily to blame - stopping that play IS the job they are charged with above all others.

On the other hand, stopping the deep pass IS the job the FS is charged with above all others, and Watkins has failed in that and Davis, at least thus far, has not.

 

[aikemirv]

The difference is in whether you should bench a guy for not successfully accomplishing his secondary responsibility on one play as opposed to benching a guy for failing to successfully accomplish his primary responsibility on multiple plays. That's the discussion - and weighing one agains the other makes no sense.

HERE'S WHAT I ADDED TO MY PREVIOUS POST THAT YOU DIDN'T SEE:

The reality is that while Davis isn't completely blameless on the Portis TD and while he did take a bad angle, the D-line and LB's are primarily to blame - stopping that play IS the job they are charged with above all others.

On the other hand, stopping the deep pass IS the job the FS is charged with above all others, and Watkins has failed in that and Davis, at least thus far, has not.

Not this year, but many in the past two years.

 

[superpunk]

The reality is that while Davis isn't completely blameless on the Portis TD and while he did take a bad angle, the D-line and LB's are primarily to blame - stopping that play IS the job they are charged with above all others.

On the other hand, stopping the deep pass IS the job the FS is charged with above all others, and Watkins has failed in that and Davis, at least thus far, has not.

That's an enormous oversimplification. The job the free safety is charged with above all others is whatever job he is assigned during that actual play. Considering we don't know the playcall, the only thing we can say about Davis on that play is that he took a terrible angle, kind of like Roy against Tiki on 3rd and 16. With him in there, over Watkins, the big plays have gone way down. That said, it is only a two game sample. But we didn't see Keith get beat nearly as bad or as often as Watkins last year.

You gotta stick with Keith. Bottom line is that it's not a great selection to be choosing from, and that's management's problem. Watkins was apparently lights out in camp, INTs left and right, so there's a chance it gets much better. It just needs to get better BEFORE we put him back out there. We're 4-4. There's no time for learning on the fly.

 

[Stautner]

Not this year, but many in the past two years.

Davis wasn't even a regular player 2 years ago - last year was his first year to get any serious playing time other than special teams.

And who gives a crap about last year - all I know is that we were getting burned deep consistently with Watkins at FS and we haven't been since Davis has been playing, and that's what matters at this point in time.

That's an enormous oversimplification. The job the free safety is charged with above all others is whatever job he is assigned during that actual play. Considering we don't know the playcall, the only thing we can say about Davis on that play is that he took a terrible angle, kind of like Roy against Tiki on 3rd and 16. With him in there, over Watkins, the big plays have gone way down. That said, it is only a two game sample. But we didn't see Keith get beat nearly as bad or as often as Watkins last year.

You gotta stick with Keith. Bottom line is that it's not a great selection to be choosing from, and that's management's problem. Watkins was apparently lights out in camp, INTs left and right, so there's a chance it gets much better. It just needs to get better BEFORE we put him back out there. We're 4-4. There's no time for learning on the fly.

While I admit that I did oversimplify things to a degree, it wasn't an "enormous" oversimplification - especially for a FS who is less charged with stopping the run than the SS.

Unless the FS is blitzing or given an atypical assignment he IS, first and foremost, charged with stopping the deep pass, just as a MLB's first responsibility, barring a blitz or atypical coverage assignment, is to stop the run.

But the bottom line is that we agree that Davis has not been getting burned deep and Watkins was - often - and that is the most important consideration in determining who should be starting.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Davis wasn't even a regular player 2 years ago - last year was his first year to get any serious playing time other than special teams.

And who gives a crap about last year - all I know is that we were getting burned deep consistently with Watkins at FS and we haven't been since Davis has been playing, and that's what matters at this point in time.



While I admit that I did oversimplify things to a degree, it wasn't an "enormous" oversimplification - especially for a FS who is less charged with stopping the run than the SS.

Unless the FS is blitzing or given an atypical assignment he IS, first and foremost, charged with stopping the deep pass, just as a MLB's first responsibility, barring a blitz or atypical coverage assignment, is to stop the run.

But the bottom line is that we agree that Davis has not been getting burned deep and Watkins was - often - and that is the most important consideration in determining who should be starting.

Our FS gave up the TD to Cooley on Sunday. That may not have bee "deep" but it was still a TD given up due to blown coverage and the middle of the field was open constantly.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

Our FS gave up the TD to Cooley on Sunday. That may not have bee "deep" but it was still a TD given up due to blown coverage and the middle of the field was open constantly.

Well, we played Cover 2 for the most part and that type of defense is vunerable to the deep corner routes and the deep middle.

Even though they lost, the Patriots were constantly trying to exploitg the deep middle of the Colts Cover 2 defense with their Tight End.

- Mike G.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Well, we played Cover 2 for the most part and that type of defense is vunerable to the deep corner routes and the deep middle.

Even though they lost, the Patriots were constantly trying to exploitg the deep middle of the Colts Cover 2 defense with their Tight End.

- Mike G.

Oh I agree. And Davis just does not have any range so the center of the field is even more vulnerable.

 

[King Marco III]

imho Watkins needs to start. He is the only true FS on the roster. Davis is back there playing like a ss. He goes for bone crushing hits rather than ints and I feel he would be better served playing closer to the line in run support. Its almost like he is the generic version of roy williams, but his coverage is worse and that sure as hell isn't what the cowboys need at the Fs position. Watkins just needs to get the game down mentaly and has all the physical talent you would ever need in a fs. He just needs to learn. If we are gonna get torched, atleast have somebody with some upside learning from his mistakes. Coleman doesn't even belong in the nfl imo.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Davis is a strong safety. I think we need to ... ugh, put Watkins back and let Davis backup. I think we should just release Coleman...

 

[TheHustler]

We are sticking with Romo because he is playing well and not costing us games.

Watkins was costing us games, so the comparison isn't fair.

Haven't you noticed that we haven't been getting burned on deep passes in the last 2 weeks since Watkins has been on the bench - why would you want to go back to the way it was?

The FS was responsible for making the play on Cooley's TD.....

 

[MichaelWinicki]

The FS was responsible for making the play on Cooley's TD.....

Exactly.

The FS cost us two TD's against the Skins.

You might as well have Watkins in there.

 

[dfense]

We got burned by 2 deep passes. One on the Randle El pass on another that was called back because of that hold they called on the TE. Not including the TD pass to Cooley which BP said was not Henry's responsibility.

My question would be this. The middle of the field was open all day for Brunnell. I don't remember that being a problem all year. Would Watkins have done better in that area? I don't know but just a question because we got eaten alive deep (20-30 yrds) middle.

Not for nothing, but Davis allowed the longest run of the season when Portis ripped off that 38 yarder. Once he turned the corner, Davis came in at a horrible angle way too fast and just fell down.

 

[Jay]

We hadn't given up a run more than 20 yards until that Portis run. We were the only team in the league left that had yet to give one up.