Broaddus: What We’re Looking For Here At Senior Bowl (4 Players Named)

[ABQCOWBOY]

yup just preaching the obvious message.

parcells liked spears more than ware because of how heavily he valued size.
each group is a little different.

if the defensive system changes next year we'll see a very different approach probably.
but bet this draft looks a lot like a marinelli-influenced group.

it is an interesting question tho... what if floyd were sitting there this year....

I would take this kid Donald over Floyd but that's just me.

 

[supercowboy8]

yup just preaching the obvious message.

parcells liked spears more than ware because of how heavily he valued size.
each group is a little different.

if the defensive system changes next year we'll see a very different approach probably.
but bet this draft looks a lot like a marinelli-influenced group.

it is an interesting question tho... what if floyd were sitting there this year....

Just because we switch coaches doesn't mean the scheme changes. Doubt we go back to a 3-4 next year. Most likely stay in a 4-3. If so look at the 4-3 defenses. Alot of them still use a under tackle.

 

[jterrell]

Just because we switch coaches doesn't mean the scheme changes. Doubt we go back to a 3-4 next year. Most likely stay in a 4-3. If so look at the 4-3 defenses. Alot of them still use a under tackle.

hear you there and i bet jerry demands whatever coach utlilize the 4-3.
but some coaches like really big DL in a 4 man DL and others like a bunch of fast past rushers.
seattle uses massive bodies on at least some downs while marinelli has really seldom done that unless the big bodies are truly special athletes.

whomever comes in is likely to be less extreme than marinelli and will almost certainly not refer to the DL as "rushmen".
parcells like three guys weighing 300 on the DL together.
he loved the fatties!

 

[xwalker]

hear you there and i bet jerry demands whatever coach utlilize the 4-3.
but some coaches like really big DL in a 4 man DL and others like a bunch of fast past rushers.
seattle uses massive bodies on at least some downs while marinelli has really seldom done that unless the big bodies are truly special athletes.

whomever comes in is likely to be less extreme than marinelli and will almost certainly not refer to the DL as "rushmen".
parcells like three guys weighing 300 on the DL together.
he loved the fatties!

Speaking of Seattle, it's interesting that their Star player on DL (Mebane) is a 1-tech.

 

[jterrell]

Speaking of Seattle, it's interesting that their Star player on DL (Mebane) is a 1-tech.

Is he a star? He was a 3rd round pick and I suspect that's about what Dallas would prefer to give for a starting 1T.
He has 13 career sacks which by our fan base would mean he sucks.

A quick google gave me this fan-based ranking entering 2013 that had him 24th on the roster.
http://www.hawkblogger.com/2013/01/ranking-seahawks-roster-1-57.html

ESPN ranked the two SB rosters but I am not an insider so only saw that Peyton and Richard Sherman topped the list.

Mebane was 6'1" and 309 pounds at the combine. I think he is about as big as you'll see Dallas draft a DL with Marinelli having major input.

 

[Rogerthat12]

At 16 pick in the 1st round. You shouldn't have to teach him moves you should be coaching his moves and making them better. He should have some. He rely on his size to much.

Who said anything about pick 16, I simply mentioned the guy was a beast of a man.

 

[supercowboy8]

Who said anything about pick 16, I simply mentioned the guy was a beast of a man.

He's a beast for sure but if you want him to be a cowboy, some team will draft him before our 2nd round pick. Do its going to have to be 16 or 17

 

[Rogerthat12]

He's a beast for sure but if you want him to be a cowboy, some team will draft him before our 2nd round pick. Do its going to have to be 16 or 17

Could be wise to not overstate a case to push a preference, I simply made an observation of a listed player the team is looking at at the Senior Bowl.

If you like Donald at 16, just say it but it was clearly unnecessary to jump on my particular observation because it truly sounds like an attempt to prove a preference!

Where people will be drafted can change substantially from now until May, so it may be wise to take pause with absolute declarations on where a player may or may not be drafted at this point.

We all know this can vary even on the day of the draft.

 

[supercowboy8]

Could be wise to not overstate a case to push a preference, I simply made an observation of a listed player the team is looking at at the Senior Bowl.

If you like Donald at 16, just say it but it was clearly unnecessary to jump on my particular observation because it truly sounds like an attempt to prove a preference!

Where people will be drafted can change substantially from now until May, so it may be wise to take pause with absolute declarations on where a player may or may not be drafted at this point.

We all know this can vary even on the day of the draft.

I've been saying I like Donald as a 1st round pick since November. I'm just going off history on Hageman. Unless some off the filed character stuff comes up on Hageman I will go o the record he will be gone before we pick in the 2nd. His size and strength will make coaches and gms fall in love with.

 

[Rogerthat12]

I've been saying I like Donald as a 1st round pick since November. I'm just going off history on Hageman. Unless some off the filed character stuff comes up on Hageman I will go o the record he will be gone before we pick in the 2nd. His size and strength will make coaches and gms fall in love with.

Look, if you have liked Donald since November good for you, some are pointing out apparent weaknesses in his game as well with reference to his history on this board.

Hageman is a beast of a man that can learn moves at the next level, I have made absolutely zero declarations on where I believe the player will go precisely because of the capricious nature of the draft process and corresponding draft day.

I have read good things with reference to both players and I also acknowledge the reality of concrete weakness in their given games, as with any player up for evaluation.

I understand you like Donald, I see your same comments in other threads where the player is contested by other members, just watch overstating your case because you have fallen in love with the player since November and because others are pointing out said players weaknesses, just as you apparently are about Hageman.

During the draft process we will all learn more about both players as they are engaged further by NFL level staff at every level.

Game tape is informative but so is the complex systems that each NFL team employs to properly adjudicate a given players value to a particular team and scheme.

This year will be no different, there is plenty of time for further evaluations, I would just avoid overstating your case for a given player just to prove your preference.

 

[cowboys1981]

We need to pick the best player at the DT spot available vs looking for a RM type. If he can get the best for guys off the street, he can do the same with the players mentioned in this thread. IMO, adding DT Linval Joseph and drafting either Hageman or Donald; would bolster our interior line.

 

[supercowboy8]

Look, if you have liked Donald since November good for you, some are pointing out apparent weaknesses in his game as well with reference to his history on this board.

Hageman is a beast of a man that can learn moves at the next level, I have made absolutely zero declarations on where I believe the player will go precisely because of the capricious nature of the draft process and corresponding draft day.

I have read good things with reference to both players and I also acknowledge the reality of concrete weakness in their given games, as with any player up for evaluation.

I understand you like Donald, I see your same comments in other threads where the player is contested by other members, just watch overstating your case because you have fallen in love with the player since November and because others are pointing out said players weaknesses, just as you apparently are about Hageman.

During the draft process we will all learn more about both players as they are engaged further by NFL level staff at every level.

Game tape is informative but so is the complex systems that each NFL team employs to properly adjudicate a given players value to a particular team and scheme.

This year will be no different, there is plenty of time for further evaluations, I would just avoid overstating your case for a given player just to prove your preference.

I haven't fallen in love and of course he has weakness every player does. Like Hageman is he has no pass rush moves. I just hate when poeple talk about weakness that isn't true. Like some said Donald wares down at the end of the season so I posted his stats for the last of the season to prove him wrong. Then he talks about his size, then someone post a video of him pushing Richardson who is a 1st round OG 55 pound heavier over and to the ground.

if your going to talk about his weakness then thats fine, but atleast get them right and don't get upset when I correct you.
he can hold up vs double teams and vs the run. He sinks his hips and use his size to his advantage vs the run and contains his gaps. Thats his job. He penetrates and makes tackles in the backfield and gets sacks.

Donalds biggest weakness is he is to quick and over pursues. By doing this he runs himself out of the play. Needs to learn to control himself and read plays better.


Only think I ever said about Hagman is he rely to much on his power and doesn't have any pass rushing moves. He needs those and I wouldn't draft a play mid 1st that need to be taught moves. He should by now have moves that just needs to be coached and refined. Then I said he will be taken in the 1st because a team will fall in love with his size.

I'm not overstating anything. I say what I think and back it up.

 

[Rogerthat12]

I haven't fallen in love and of course he has weakness every player does. Like Hageman is he has no pass rush moves. I just hate when poeple talk about weakness that isn't true. Like some said Donald wares down at the end of the season so I posted his stats for the last of the season to prove him wrong. Then he talks about his size, then someone post a video of him pushing Richardson who is a 1st round OG 55 pound heavier over and to the ground.

if your going to talk about his weakness then thats fine, but atleast get them right and don't get upset when I correct you.
he can hold up vs double teams and vs the run. He sinks his hips and use his size to his advantage vs the run and contains his gaps. Thats his job. He penetrates and makes tackles in the backfield and gets sacks.

Donalds biggest weakness is he is to quick and over pursues. By doing this he runs himself out of the play. Needs to learn to control himself and read plays better.


Only think I ever said about Hagman is he rely to much on his power and doesn't have any pass rushing moves. He needs those and I wouldn't draft a play mid 1st that need to be taught moves. He should by now have moves that just needs to be coached and refined. Then I said he will be taken in the 1st because a team will fall in love with his size.

I'm not overstating anything. I say what I think and back it up.

First, you are not correcting or proving anything to me on any level.

You are having exchanges with others with regard to Donald and both sides have made valid points but clearly overstatement has been made on both sides!

This is a common logical fallacy when trying to support or prove a point.

Overstatement is over emphasizing strengths and down playing or denying valid weaknesses to prove a point.

It is using mental gymnastics and all data to prove a point to an agenda without being self-critical in return.

It also involves jumping on another player or to comment about a player to support an argument for preference to another, the problem here is there was absolutely zero reason for a comparative argument.

For example, I simply stated that Hagemen was a beast of a man and could push the pocket with reference to his 6'6 318 frame with power.

You state he has "no pass rush moves" and in your opinion "should already have them" notwithstanding I made zero reference to picking the guy at all, much less at 16.

Now all of a sudden you claim Donald "Like Hageman is he has no pass rush moves", this is a complete contradiction from your initial statement and would logically follow that just like Hageman who lacks pass rush moves, Donald should also already have them and of consequence, should not be selected at 16 in round 1 by your own logic.

This is worse than an overstatement, it is a complete contradiction which renders your original proposition false and your argument on those same terms invalid.

 

[xwalker]

Is he a star? He was a 3rd round pick and I suspect that's about what Dallas would prefer to give for a starting 1T.
He has 13 career sacks which by our fan base would mean he sucks.

A quick google gave me this fan-based ranking entering 2013 that had him 24th on the roster.
http://www.hawkblogger.com/2013/01/ranking-seahawks-roster-1-57.html

ESPN ranked the two SB rosters but I am not an insider so only saw that Peyton and Richard Sherman topped the list.

Mebane was 6'1" and 309 pounds at the combine. I think he is about as big as you'll see Dallas draft a DL with Marinelli having major input.

I should have said DT not DL. He signed a 25M contract. The other 2 DTs are making near minimum.

 

[jterrell]

We need to pick the best player at the DT spot available vs looking for a RM type. If he can get the best for guys off the street, he can do the same with the players mentioned in this thread. IMO, adding DT Linval Joseph and drafting either Hageman or Donald; would bolster our interior line.

There's very little reason to believe we will do anything other than rely on RM since Jerry brought him into the war room last year and stated we'd lean on these defensive assts.

This year they will have more input as the board is built.

Truth is RM is the de facto DC with Kiffen really here at his behest.

What you say certainly makes sense but seems so painfully unlikely as not worth discussing.

IF the team improves and makes the playoffs next year Garrett may well retain this defensive staff a while.
I think he'd oust Callahan when given the chance but I think he loves the geezers.

If we decide to reboot the D staff they can use the players we have while adding a piece here or there as we do every year anyway.

Draft isn't the big issue.
Bigger issue is not paying a couple DL Carr like deal sin FA to fill gaps who may be poor scheme fits in 2 years a la ... Carr.

 

[jterrell]

I should have said DT not DL. He signed a 25M contract. The other 2 DTs are making near minimum.

that's just the process.
he was a former 3rd round pick who was a starter. they had to pay him.
they'll have to deal with like 4 or 5 of those DL this year.
will be interesting to watch them as they clearly won free agency last year.

the market was serious crap last year so a lot of guys were left holding empty wallets.
seattle had cap money and bolstered it's depth to obscene levels because they had the cap cash to pounce on value.

we didn't

and that sux because we've tried in the past to be the slowly moving selective team in free agency.

last year with the romo deal and spencer deals out there we were never in a true free agency period.

one of the reasons i constantly caution against taking the rosiest estimates for cap handling since it just so seldom comes to fruition.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Donald kinda reminds me of La Roi Glover a little bit. Same short body type, same quickness and disruptive playing style.

 

[AsthmaField]

I don't think there is any question that the team is going to draft smaller, quicker DT's if they do draft any.

Personally, I don't think that Marinelli likes height on an interior DL. 6-2, or 6-3 is about as tall as he wants them, and he doesn't shy away at all from someone Donald's height.

 

[ceerrece]

I think we'll go DE(Ealy, Murphy) in the first, just for the value of the position, and a DT in the second, someone like Will Sutton who fits better in Marinelli's scheme..

 

[jterrell]

I think we'll go DE(Ealy, Murphy) in the first, just for the value of the position, and a DT in the second, someone like Will Sutton who fits better in Marinelli's scheme..

DE value guys may well be gone by 16/17.

Ealy is a real climber at this point due largely to potential.

Murphy has gotten mixed reviews.
Tough and heady player but lacks top of the line measurables.
He may well compare with someone like Spencer who was a late R1 guy because he lacked elite burst but wasn't going to get you beat.

Sutton is NOT a fit for Marinelli IMHO. Seems only a 1T here and a rotational guy. Maybe a R3-R4 value.
He was a really poor playmaker in 2013.
He looked slow and unathletic all year.

Keep in mind Dallas planned to play Crawford at SDE last year and then found a player in Selvie at that SDE position as well.

Not sure there is a worthy WDE value at 16/17. May be a guy we can grab in rounds 2-4 that is aback up for now.
I mocked the Georgia Tech kid there. OLB 3-4 Pass rush type that can play WDE.

I've been projecting Dallas trade down and grab a starting 3T to replace Hatcher.
Seems a pretty good marriage of value and positional need.