Browns trade rumors

[Stash]

Seen this movie....RGIII.....It typically doesn't end well...

Here's a comprehensive study on the subject:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2014/nfl-draft-round-round-quarterback-data

 

[lkelly]

However, you said that Bradford was untradeable due to his contract and I was just merely pointing out that he is not untradeable.

I did? I thought that this is what I wrote:

"Look at the cap hit they take trading Bradford right now. It's substantial."

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

What they do is argue that these guys are question marks or that this team that has struggled in finding one, will just 'get one' because... Cowboys. That's certainly "defending the organization".

Not in my opinion...it is just a different idea that the closed minded way of looking at things.

Right, so the 'whatever the team does' philosophy. Where they can't lose and guys like you defend everything they do, until it's proven to be terrible. And then it's 'in the past' and 'too late now' and we just move on to the next one. And you label that as 'open-minded'. I'd rather stand for something than fall for anything.

It is not defending the team any more than it is condemning them before you find out who the player is and how they work out and if they are the right player for this team. Condemning the pick before it is ever made even though the pick is graded in the right slot and fits a team need but does not fit what you want is idiotic. If a player is taken and later proves to be a bad fit or a bad player for this team does not mean it is not a bad pick later. Bobby Carpenter will always be a bad player for this team that did not pan out. He was slotted at the right spot but he just did not pan out. Mo was a bad pick that has not panned out for the slot he was taken. And for the idea that you have to use the term...guys like you...only illustrates what I am talking about with "guys like YOU" who thinks their way is the only way and if it is not your way than it is the wrong way. Too closed minded and silly and thinks that buy being "out there" is some form of having guts while you hide behind a keyboard. Real guts there. lol

You're mostly right, except for the part where you assume that Rivers and the Chargers are in anywhere near the same position the Cowboys are. And the part where Rivers has missed 0 games to Romo's 27 over the same period of time. Other than that? Sure.

Has nothing to do with his Phillips health...he is at the tail end of his career he just this offseason was talking about possibly retiring so by your rational they should draft a QB now to replace him therefore there will be no QB left for us at 4.

the track record on quarterbacks. Was that unclear?

I was talking a first round pick here not just QB...We have only drafted two QBs with a first round pick since Jerry has owned the team...so you are not optimistic that we are taking a QB in the first round because of our draft history but still making a big stink about anyone that says we could draft different positions?

As I've said, if they don't have the opportunity at either of the top two quarterbacks, I can't fault them for that. But, likely in the rush to attack anyone dating to criticize the Cowboys, that was once again overlooked or disregarded.

Just as you are likely to rush to attack anyone who is ok if we draft someone besides one of the two QBs? Like you have been with me...like saying...I am defending the organization because I don't agree with you when that is a lie? Or like you saying guys like you...or rather stand for something instead of fall for anything even though I am standing for using by brain and not falling for being trapped in a close minded situation...you mean like that?

Fine. We can have it your way and have an adversarial conversation. That's obviously what you're looking for.

Takes two to tango Senior Stasheroo

 

[Stash]

Not in my opinion...it is just a different idea that the closed minded way of looking at things.

Of course, criticism = "close mindedness". Well established mantra.

It is not defending the team any more than it is condemning them before you find out who the player is and how they work out and if they are the right player for this team. Condemning the pick before it is ever made even though the pick is graded in the right slot and fits a team need but does not fit what you want is idiotic.

Criticizing the thought process isn't any more "idiotic" than mindlessly signing off on whatever the team does like a sheep. I've made my thoughts clear, given this team's needs and long term future, added to their history of quarterback failure and proven odds being better the earlier you draft one, if one of these guys is available, they should draft them.

If a player is taken and later proves to be a bad fit or a bad player for this team does not mean it is not a bad pick later. Bobby Carpenter will always be a bad player for this team that did not pan out. He was slotted at the right spot but he just did not pan out. Mo was a bad pick that has not panned out for the slot he was taken. And for the idea that you have to use the term...guys like you...only illustrates what I am talking about with "guys like YOU" who thinks their way is the only way and if it is not your way than it is the wrong way. Too closed minded and silly and thinks that buy being "out there" is some form of having guts while you hide behind a keyboard. Real guts there. lol

More than simply being a lemming or sheep who simply falls in line with anything the team does. I'll make zero apologies for having an opinion and expressing it. I find it hilarious that someone who either can't or won't would dare call anyone else "close minded".

Has nothing to do with his Phillips health...he is at the tail end of his career he just this offseason was talking about possibly retiring so by your rational they should draft a QB now to replace him therefore there will be no QB left for us at 4.

Has everything to do with quarterback health. And Romo's lack thereof, but why am I not surprised to hear this from you? You know what else Rivers did this offseason? He signed a long-term contract extension! I guess you missed that?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...ilip-rivers-extension-includes-notrade-clause

That sure doesn't say 'retiring' to anybody else.

I was talking a first round pick here not just QB...We have only drafted two QBs with a first round pick since Jerry has owned the team...so you are not optimistic that we are taking a QB in the first round because of our draft history but still making a big stink about anyone that says we could draft different positions?

I'm talking about drafting a quarterback. My optimism or lack thereof has nothing to do with the fact that they've drafted two in the 1st round in the past.

Just as you are likely to rush to attack anyone who is ok if we draft someone besides one of the two QBs? Like you have been with me...like saying...I am defending the organization because I don't agree with you when that is a lie? Or like you saying guys like you...or rather stand for something instead of fall for anything even though I am standing for using by brain and not falling for being trapped in a close minded situation...you mean like that?

You're not "using your brain" for anything. You're letting someone else tell you what the decision is and then trying to defend it after the fact. Zero guts there.

Takes two to tango Senior Stasheroo

I tried to extend the olive branch and you preferred to keep things hostile. You can have things your way.

 

[aikemirv]

Here's a comprehensive study on the subject:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2014/nfl-draft-round-round-quarterback-data

Those stats have no bearing on moving up for a Qb. honestly, giving up multiple picks for a FCS player is really a huge risk. I don't see how you can justify it. If he falls to you then so be it, but sacrifing a years high round picks is foolish. He is truly unproven IMO.

 

[Stash]

Those stats have no bearing on moving up for a Qb.

They clearly show you that your chances for success are better. Tell yourself whatever else you want to after that.

honestly, giving up multiple picks for a FCS player is really a huge risk. I don't see how you can justify it. If he falls to you then so be it, but sacrifing a years high round picks is foolish. He is truly unproven IMO.

Giving up the picks for any player is a "huge risk", but NFL decision makers obviously feel that it's a risk worth taking.

Look around this league at what is happening at the position, with these trades, and the skyrocketing salaries. You either have one and are paying big, hope you have one and are paying big, or desperately trying to get one.

Any rookie is "unproven", and based on that criteria, you never draft one. And therefore you become one of the teams in this league without one. Welcome to 2001 all over again.

 

[aikemirv]

They clearly show you that your chances for success are better. Tell yourself whatever else you want to after that.



Giving up the picks for any player is a "huge risk", but NFL decision makers obviously feel that it's a risk worth taking.

Look around this league at what is happening at the position, with these trades, and the skyrocketing salaries. You either have one and are paying big, hope you have one and are paying big, or desperately trying to get one.

Any rookie is "unproven", and based on that criteria, you never draft one. And therefore you become one of the teams in this league without one. Welcome to 2001 all over again.

Any rookie is unproven but the speed of the game at FCS vs FBS is night and day. An FBS player on a high profile program has faced some of the best players and the best defensive coordinators> He is much more proven but obviously not a guaratee. Obviously stats show that 1st round QB's have more playoff games and so forth because your odds are definitely better getting a better player and I would not be upset if Dallas takes Wentz because I like him. I just think he is a much bigger risk.

 

[Stash]

Any rookie is unproven but the speed of the game at FCS vs FBS is night and day. An FBS player on a high profile program has faced some of the best players and the best defensive coordinators> He is much more proven but obviously not a guaratee. Obviously stats show that 1st round QB's have more playoff games and so forth because your odds are definitely better getting a better player and I would not be upset if Dallas takes Wentz because I like him. I just think he is a much bigger risk.

I take comfort in the fact that any quarterback this team drafts will have time to get acclimated to the NFL game. Likely much more time than they will going most anywhere else.

Where I have less comfort is in the quality of the coaching that they'll be receiving. That's part of why I personally favor Goff over Wentz, and both more than Paxton Lynch.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Of course, criticism = "close mindedness". Well established mantra.

If they are there and they don't take them...you will not be happy no matter who they take.
Seems like closed minded to me. Not sure what else it would be.
Maybe set in stone, resolute, uncompromising...different words I guess if you prefer those.

Criticizing the thought process isn't any more "idiotic" than mindlessly signing off on whatever the team does like a sheep. I've made my thoughts clear, given this team's needs and long term future, added to their history of quarterback failure and proven odds being better the earlier you draft one, if one of these guys is available, they should draft them.

If the team drafts Hackenberg at #4...I would be pissed. If the team would draft Henry at #4 I would be pissed. If the team signed a multitude of other players at #4 that are not rated that high I would be pissed. If the team would take Bosa over Wentz I would hate it but I have to also realize that DE is a need and Bosa is rated at the spot. We have complained for years to build this team from the inside out so when we have the chance, even if I hate it, I can't complain much about it. We need secondary help...if they take what many consider the 1st or 2nd best player in this draft...I might not like it...but I can understand it. Now with the Eatman Ramsey report it seems even more of a risk. If the team takes Zeke...I would be happy. Between Wentz and Zeke they are the players I want with the 4th pick. Does not mean i have to be so set in stone that I think any other picks are wrong and only the two I like are correct.

More than simply being a lemming or sheep who simply falls in line with anything the team does. I'll make zero apologies for having an opinion and expressing it. I find it hilarious that someone who either can't or won't would dare call anyone else "close minded".

Just because someone does not agree with you it does not make them a lemming or sheep for the team. We should have taken S.Floyd in the one draft because we had him rated that high, we got lucky that Fredbeard paid off. We should have taken S.Jackson in the one draft and we regretted it with J.Jones. We should have put more draft first round resources in the Oline way before they finally did. Jerry needs to retire the GM spot even though he never will. So just because someone does not agree whole hearted with your ideas, it does not make one a lemming, as sheep or defender of all things cowboys.

Has everything to do with quarterback health. And Romo's lack thereof, but why am I not surprised to hear this from you? You know what else Rivers did this offseason? He signed a long-term contract extension! I guess you missed that?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...ilip-rivers-extension-includes-notrade-clause

That sure doesn't say 'retiring' to anybody else.

He talked about possilby retiring prior to resigning and as someone once said if you talked about retiring, you are thinking about it. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...p-rivers-considered-retirement-last-offseason
Or maybe you missed that. And the Chargers Should be taking a QB soon to groom for the future since Phillips is older, has publicly contemplated retirement. Just as the Cowboys should consider drafting a QB to groom to replace Romo even if it means drafting on in the first round at 4 if available...OR...drafting one later in this year draft...or drafting one next year.

I'm talking about drafting a quarterback. My optimism or lack thereof has nothing to do with the fact that they've drafted two in the 1st round in the past.

Fair enough on that point.

You're not "using your brain" for anything. You're letting someone else tell you what the decision is and then trying to defend it after the fact. Zero guts there.

Again just because I don't agree with you whole heartedly it does not mean I am a sheep, lemming, defending the team no matter what and NOW not using my brain and letting others tell me what to do.
Who is this mysterious person telling me what I think I should think instead of myself? I would like to meet this mysterious person that has control over my mind.

I tried to extend the olive branch and you preferred to keep things hostile. You can have things your way.

No you did not and I am far from Hostile.

 

[aikemirv]

I take comfort in the fact that any quarterback this team drafts will have time to get acclimated to the NFL game. Likely much more time than they will going most anywhere else.

Where I have less comfort is in the quality of the coaching that they'll be receiving. That's part of why I personally favor Goff over Wentz, and both more than Paxton Lynch.

Yeah, I don't like Paxton. The interview I saw of him makes me think he is as dumb as dirt.

 

[boysfanindc]

And don't cherry pick some misses and call it truth either. I know what the actual research shows. Unlike some, I do my homework.

I don't believe it is cherry picking at all, below are the first round QB's for the last decade, how many of them would you say will lead a franchise for 12 years and deep into the playoffs. How many of those guys are franchise QB's?

It's is a crap shoot, even when the league thinks highly of them when they are coming out. Are your odds better in the 1st round, of course they are but you are also hurt pretty badly if it does not work and it is still a crap shoot.

Every NFL team needs a good QB to win, most important position on the field, but it is not a binary decision, pick one high and you are guaranteed success, it is risk reward and you can be burnt (i.e. wasting a first round pick)

If you also look at the QB's that where drafted after the first round, you will see a decent amount of pretty good ones, odds go down but so does the cost if you make a mistake.

But either way, there is more then one way to skin a cat.

My personal beef with the Boys and drafting QB's is that they have not taken more flyers on the 2nd - 4th round guys, if they had drafted a QB every time they drafted a TE we might have our starter in the wings already.

My belief is that they are now going to start to do this. I think their thought process is we have 3 to 4 years to find Romo's replacement and they will spend some resources to find them in the 2-4 range.

Jameis Winston
Marcus Mariota
Blake Bortles
Johnny Manziel
Teddy Bridgewater
EJ Manuel
Andrew Luck
Robert Griffin
Brandon Weeden
Ryan Tannehill
Cam Newton
Jake Locker
Blaine Gabbert
Christian Ponder
Sam Bradford
Tim Tebow
Matthew Stafford
Mark Sanchez
Josh Freeman
Matt Ryan
Joe Flacco
JaMarcus Russell
Brady Quinn
Vince Young
Matt Leinart
Jay Cutler

 

[CowboyRoy]

So Goff at #1 and Wentz at #2? Yeah, "overrated" for sure. "No franchise quarterbacks here folks!" Despite the fact that not one, but two NFL franchises will be giving up two years' worth of draft picks to get 'em...

Screw the franchise QB thing. He wont play for a couple years. And just think......there is a 1 in 500 chance we can win the SB if we think short term and get lucky.

It really is mind blowing that some fans would pass on one of those guys and go for immediate need over franchise QB.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Are we headed for another AFLAC?

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

I don't believe it is cherry picking at all, below are the first round QB's for the last decade, how many of them would you say will lead a franchise for 12 years and deep into the playoffs. How many of those guys are franchise QB's?

It's is a crap shoot, even when the league thinks highly of them when they are coming out. Are your odds better in the 1st round, of course they are but you are also hurt pretty badly if it does not work and it is still a crap shoot.

Every NFL team needs a good QB to win, most important position on the field, but it is not a binary decision, pick one high and you are guaranteed success, it is risk reward and you can be burnt (i.e. wasting a first round pick)

If you also look at the QB's that where drafted after the first round, you will see a decent amount of pretty good ones, odds go down but so does the cost if you make a mistake.

But either way, there is more then one way to skin a cat.

My personal beef with the Boys and drafting QB's is that they have not taken more flyers on the 2nd - 4th round guys, if they had drafted a QB every time they drafted a TE we might have our starter in the wings already.

My belief is that they are now going to start to do this. I think their thought process is we have 3 to 4 years to find Romo's replacement and they will spend some resources to find them in the 2-4 range.

Jameis Winston
Marcus Mariota
Blake Bortles
Johnny Manziel
Teddy Bridgewater
EJ Manuel
Andrew Luck
Robert Griffin
Brandon Weeden
Ryan Tannehill
Cam Newton
Jake Locker
Blaine Gabbert
Christian Ponder
Sam Bradford
Tim Tebow
Matthew Stafford
Mark Sanchez
Josh Freeman
Matt Ryan
Joe Flacco
JaMarcus Russell
Brady Quinn
Vince Young
Matt Leinart
Jay Cutler

Now take off the first QB draft taken away in a multiple QB drafted first round and see how the other QBs have fared.

Like someone posted at one time...when there have been QBs drafted one and two over all...Usually the first one pans out and the other does not.

I wonder how many times that applies to First QB taken in the first round vs the other QBs taken in the first round.

To be fair I understand what he is saying that FIRST Round QBs will end up better overall than QBs drafted in other Rounds. That IMO is a given.

But with teams over drafting QBs because of need and so many 2nd or later round QBs getting drafting in the 1st...it does seem to diminish the odds after the first QB taken in the first round but I have not went back and seen that.

 

[casmith07]

"You don't criticize the team the way I do! You are less of a fan than me and are less intelligent than me!" -- @stasheroo

 

[dcjules]

According to Alex Marvez of Fox Sports, the Eagles and Browns have set the framework for a potential trade involving the No. 2 pick.

Per Marvez, the Eagles would give up first and third round picks in 2016 and 2017. The Eagles are reportedly enamored with North Dakota State QB Carson Wentz and they'll probably have to trade up to No. 2 to get him. Then again, the Eagles have also shown keen interest in Ohio State RB Ezekiel Elliott, who they might be able to grab at No. 8. If the two sides can't reach an agreement, the Eagles could try trading up to No. 3. NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reported Tuesday that the Chargers are shopping their pick.
Related: Browns, Eagles


Sorry if already posted. I didnt see it.

would love this trade to go thru...Wentz overrated and Eagles give up boatload of picks...

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

"You don't criticize the team the way I do! You are less of a fan than me and are less intelligent than me!" -- @stasheroo

To be fair to him...He might be thinking or saying some of that...I don't think he is thinking or saying the bold part.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

would love this trade to go thru...Wentz overrated and Eagles give up boatload of picks...

Would love to see them waste picks and him be terrible for them.

Would hate to see him play well and running all around the field while our defensive players miss him time and again only for him to finally throw a bomb down the field...ala like McNabb used to do when he was young.

 

[KingintheNorth]

Pfff. Who needs a Goff or Wentz when you can have a Prescott.

Where's the Hate button?

 

[Stash]

I don't believe it is cherry picking at all, below are the first round QB's for the last decade, how many of them would you say will lead a franchise for 12 years and deep into the playoffs. How many of those guys are franchise QB's?

It's is a crap shoot, even when the league thinks highly of them when they are coming out. Are your odds better in the 1st round, of course they are but you are also hurt pretty badly if it does not work and it is still a crap shoot.

Every NFL team needs a good QB to win, most important position on the field, but it is not a binary decision, pick one high and you are guaranteed success, it is risk reward and you can be burnt (i.e. wasting a first round pick)

If you also look at the QB's that where drafted after the first round, you will see a decent amount of pretty good ones, odds go down but so does the cost if you make a mistake.

But either way, there is more then one way to skin a cat.

My personal beef with the Boys and drafting QB's is that they have not taken more flyers on the 2nd - 4th round guys, if they had drafted a QB every time they drafted a TE we might have our starter in the wings already.

My belief is that they are now going to start to do this. I think their thought process is we have 3 to 4 years to find Romo's replacement and they will spend some resources to find them in the 2-4 range.

Jameis Winston
Marcus Mariota
Blake Bortles
Johnny Manziel
Teddy Bridgewater
EJ Manuel
Andrew Luck
Robert Griffin
Brandon Weeden
Ryan Tannehill
Cam Newton
Jake Locker
Blaine Gabbert
Christian Ponder
Sam Bradford
Tim Tebow
Matthew Stafford
Mark Sanchez
Josh Freeman
Matt Ryan
Joe Flacco
JaMarcus Russell
Brady Quinn
Vince Young
Matt Leinart
Jay Cutler

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2014/nfl-draft-round-round-quarterback-data