Browns trade rumors

[gimmesix]

So Goff at #1 and Wentz at #2? Yeah, "overrated" for sure. "No franchise quarterbacks here folks!" Despite the fact that not one, but two NFL franchises will be giving up two years' worth of draft picks to get 'em...

Teams trading up to take these QBs doesn't prove they aren't overrated. It just proves that teams are desperate for QBs and this is all they've got to choose from.

What happens after they are drafted will show whether they are overrated or these teams were justified in trading up to get them.

Obviously, if the Eagles trade up for Wentz/Goff, I hope whoever they get is vastly overrated.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Yeah, or conversely, an owner who has done nothing but fail at quarterback since Jimmy drafted Troy Aikman or Sean Payton brought Romo to town somehow should get the benefit of the doubt? All evidence to the contrary.

Or a .500 coach who can't win without Romo should somehow get the benefit of the doubt that he knows what good quarterbacking looks like? All evidence to the contrary.

Or a failed quarterback coach who can do nothing but sit next to Romo is somehow good at his job or qualified to make the decision. All evidence to the contrary.

It continues to amaze me how some fans will continue to place faith in people who have again and again failed to justify it, all in the name of hope and fandom.

The people in the building haven't done anything to instill faith in anyone that they have the slightest clue what they're doing at quarterback. If anyone is being "silly", it's those that continue to defend them in spite of their proven and well-established track record of failure in this area.

But, by all means, 'shoot the messenger'.

First off...I am not shooting you and you are not a messenger you are just some random fan behind a keyboard on a sports forum on the internet conveying an opinion like the rest of us.

Secondly...Just because someone does not believe the same exact point you do, does not mean they are defending the organization. It means they are not as closed minded as you are to your one specific point. You are under some delusion that yours is the only right way and anyone else who has other ideas or does not agree with you is just coddling the organization...sit back and think just how silly that sounds.

I don't think you will ever see me praise how this team has handled the QB situation over the years...if anything I have been just as critical. I used to say that Jones was trying out cheap low round QBs and in doing so was trying to hit a home run in a softball game while using a wiffle ball bat and he beat all odds by hitting on Romo. So please...just because others don't agree does not mean they are defending the organization.

Some are just hell bent on thinking that if we don't take an unproven QB from a small school at 4 than that means this draft was a waste. Nobody knows how that QB will turn out, nobody knows how the other players might turn out. It is all just an opinion but to go into a draft with the idea that it is this guy or bust is silly at best.

There are more than one ways to help this team get better. This team has question marks on the D line, the LB rotation, the secondary, the WR corp, the RB corp and yes the QB situation as well.

This team can come out of this draft a better team even if they don't take a QB at 4.

My personal opinion and desire also mirrors yours that I would like one of these two QBs...actually I will thrown Lynch in there as well. However if we don't get one of those three but the other players we do get look like they can help this team...I will be happy. I will be happy with a meat and potato draft. Heck it could be someone taken in the first round that at this point I would want the least out of the options (Buckner) for example...but if he turns out to help this Defensive line get some pressure and helps this team generate some sacks whether it be at RDE, LDE or 3Tech...that makes the team better. If I want the team to have the most immediate impact to make it better the clear choice is Zeke and by a good margin IMO. If I want our secondary to be better I would be ok with Ramsey. Heck I could be ok with a trade down and give me a Rankins as a 3tech or a Spence as a DE.


Heck by your own argument...with this ownership, front office, head coach, scouts, OC and or QB Coach...do you think if they picked the QB that they would know he is a good QB and can use him to the best of his ability...by your own description of their ineptitude the answer would be no so why even draft a QB in the first place if we keep those who decide if he is worthy and coach him. Heck if we leave it to Jerry we would have JFF right now.

IT does not have to be ONE player or bust and linear thinking like that is silly....but I am not the messenger, you won't shoot me...I am just some random fan behind a keyboard on a sports forum on the internet conveying an opinion like the rest.

 

[Stash]

With the 1st pick this year, what would you do if you were the Cowboys? If you could do anything?

You'd have to give me the variables before I could answer, who's available and who's been drafted?

 

[Stash]

Teams trading up to take these QBs doesn't prove they aren't overrated. It just proves that teams are desperate for QBs and this is all they've got to choose from.

It does prove they aren't overrated. If they were, teams wouldn't be giving up so much to get them. The only people still claiming they're overrated are a minority of fans whose opinions don't mean much in the real world. Teams actions show how the league actually values them.

What happens after they are drafted will show whether they are overrated or these teams were justified in trading up to get them.

Undoubtedly so.

Obviously, if the Eagles trade up for Wentz/Goff, I hope whoever they get is vastly overrated.[/quote]

As Cowboys fans, we all do!

 

[DBOY3141]

You'd have to give me the variables before I could answer, who's available and who's been drafted?

Just using some of the smoke/rumor stuff going on.

Option 1.
1. Rams take GoffWentz
2. Browns take Wentz/Goff
3. Chargers take Tunsil

Option 2.
1. Rams take Goff
2. Browns trade pick to Cowboys for either 2nd & 3rd this year or 1st next year. Your choice on what to give up.

Option 3.

1. Rams take Goff/Wentz
2. Browns take Ramsey
3. Chargers take Tunsil

 

[Clarkson]

Teams trading up to take these QBs doesn't prove they aren't overrated. It just proves that teams are desperate for QBs and this is all they've got to choose from.

while it doesn't prove they're not overrated, it also doesn't prove what you said, either.

 

[gmoney112]

This is the point in the game where you can just ignore everything until anything at all is official.

I wouldn't be surprised if Cleveland was trying to trade down. They have a lot of holes, if I was them and really wanted to build a contender, trade down this year and get as much talent as possible, then tank this year and get your QB. Tank jobs give you tremendous draft equity.

Otherwise, until anything is official, yawn.

 

[Stash]

First off...I am not shooting you and you are not a messenger you are just some random fan behind a keyboard on a sports forum on the internet conveying an opinion like the rest of us.

Secondly...Just because someone does not believe the same exact point you do, does not mean they are defending the organization. It means they are not as closed minded as you are to your one specific point. You are under some delusion that yours is the only right way and anyone else who has other ideas or does not agree with you is just coddling the organization...sit back and think just how silly that sounds.

If that's the way you choose to see it, I'm fine with that. I'm stating what should be obvious. That quarterback is the most highly-valued position in sports and the actions of real NFL teams are showing that, despite what some fans might think.

I don't think you will ever see me praise how this team has handled the QB situation over the years...if anything I have been just as critical. I used to say that Jones was trying out cheap low round QBs and in doing so was trying to hit a home run in a softball game while using a wiffle ball bat and he beat all odds by hitting on Romo. So please...just because others don't agree does not mean they are defending the organization.

So then, tell us what you are trying to do here. Clarify your position and don't hide in some grey area and tell us all only what you're not doing. It takes zero guts to criticize someone else's position while having none yourself.

Some are just hell bent on thinking that if we don't take an unproven QB from a small school at 4 than that means this draft was a waste. Nobody knows how that QB will turn out, nobody knows how the other players might turn out. It is all just an opinion but to go into a draft with the idea that it is this guy or bust is silly at best.

No more "silly" than trusting the decision-making of those who've never earned it. But, again, it's easier to question a player than it is a decision maker. I'm watching what this league is doing, not just what the Cowboys and a bunch of guys who've never earned their jobs think.

There are more than one ways to help this team get better. This team has question marks on the D line, the LB rotation, the secondary, the WR corp, the RB corp and yes the QB situation as well.

This team can come out of this draft a better team even if they don't take a QB at 4.

My personal opinion and desire also mirrors yours that I would like one of these two QBs...actually I will thrown Lynch in there as well. However if we don't get one of those three but the other players we do get look like they can help this team...I will be happy. I will be happy with a meat and potato draft. Heck it could be someone taken in the first round that at this point I would want the least out of the options (Buckner) for example...but if he turns out to help this Defensive line get some pressure and helps this team generate some sacks whether it be at RDE, LDE or 3Tech...that makes the team better. If I want the team to have the most immediate impact to make it better the clear choice is Zeke and by a good margin IMO. If I want our secondary to be better I would be ok with Ramsey. Heck I could be ok with a trade down and give me a Rankins as a 3tech or a Spence as a DE.

We all certainly hope for the best. And, despite what you might think otherwise, I'll be happy if things work out too. But, given the statistics and the track record here, forgive me if I'm not overly optimistic.

Heck by your own argument...with this ownership, front office, head coach, scouts, OC and or QB Coach...do you think if they picked the QB that they would know he is a good QB and can use him to the best of his ability...by your own description of their ineptitude the answer would be no so why even draft a QB in the first place if we keep those who decide if he is worthy and coach him. Heck if we leave it to Jerry we would have JFF right now.

I don't have much, if any faith in any of them outside Romo, and that's a big part of why I prefer Goff. I think he's had the best coaching at the college level and would need the least from these coaches. I also have faith that Romo could and would pass on as much of what he's been taught from the better coaches he's been around. Again, that's my opinion.

IT does not have to be ONE player or bust and linear thinking like that is silly....but I am not the messenger, you won't shoot me...I am just some random fan behind a keyboard on a sports forum on the internet conveying an opinion like the rest.

Aren't we all?

 

[DogFace]

A majority of teams feeling that both quarterbacks are worthy, and several teams in need of one going to great lengths to get one of them. Their actions are gepreater than any fans' words.



And what value does that have? As if this bunch has done anything in the area of quarterback to have their opinions mean anything but failure? If this group said up, you should look down. If they say high, you should go low.

This is far and away one of the worst groups ever assembled when it comes to finding, evaluating, acquiring or coaching quarterbacks. Their track record clearly shows it.



The term you're looking for is 'idiots'. Or someone who has never watched this team. Never watched them fail for years between Aikman and Romo because they had no plan then. Nor watched the, last year as their season was completely detailed when they had no viable backup plan for Romo getting hurt.



Again, I wouldn't try to force anyone to feel the way I do, but I'll put a lot more stock in what NFL personnel people are doing over what some fan thinks. I cane clearly see the price being paid in the effort to acquire viable quarterbacks. I just have a hard time understanding how others can't.

Pease provide a link to the majority of the teams and I'll reevaluate my position.

You're hurt by what happened I between Romo and Aikamn. No one liked it. You may be overreacting to that instance. Idiots are the only ones who don't think we need a QB this year? That seems like a judgmental opinion of others not supported by any facts.

If the Cowboys don't feel like they're worthy of the 4th pick than that's all that matters. If it makes you feel better you can criticize them. Or boycott their merchandise or anything to make you feel some relief. I'm afraid it won't change anything and they could turn out to be right in this decision.

Again, please provide some evidence to this "consensus". I'd like to read how they've come to this conclusion.

 

[erod]

So Goff at #1 and Wentz at #2? Yeah, "overrated" for sure. "No franchise quarterbacks here folks!" Despite the fact that not one, but two NFL franchises will be giving up two years' worth of draft picks to get 'em...

You mean like Tim Couch, Ryan Leaf, RG3, Joey Harrington, Jemarcus Russell, Vince Young.....?

Don't confuse desperation with certainty.

 

[CWR]

First off...I am not shooting you and you are not a messenger you are just some random fan behind a keyboard on a sports forum on the internet conveying an opinion like the rest of us.

Secondly...Just because someone does not believe the same exact point you do, does not mean they are defending the organization. It means they are not as closed minded as you are to your one specific point. You are under some delusion that yours is the only right way and anyone else who has other ideas or does not agree with you is just coddling the organization...sit back and think just how silly that sounds.

I don't think you will ever see me praise how this team has handled the QB situation over the years...if anything I have been just as critical. I used to say that Jones was trying out cheap low round QBs and in doing so was trying to hit a home run in a softball game while using a wiffle ball bat and he beat all odds by hitting on Romo. So please...just because others don't agree does not mean they are defending the organization.

Some are just hell bent on thinking that if we don't take an unproven QB from a small school at 4 than that means this draft was a waste. Nobody knows how that QB will turn out, nobody knows how the other players might turn out. It is all just an opinion but to go into a draft with the idea that it is this guy or bust is silly at best.

There are more than one ways to help this team get better. This team has question marks on the D line, the LB rotation, the secondary, the WR corp, the RB corp and yes the QB situation as well.

This team can come out of this draft a better team even if they don't take a QB at 4.

My personal opinion and desire also mirrors yours that I would like one of these two QBs...actually I will thrown Lynch in there as well. However if we don't get one of those three but the other players we do get look like they can help this team...I will be happy. I will be happy with a meat and potato draft. Heck it could be someone taken in the first round that at this point I would want the least out of the options (Buckner) for example...but if he turns out to help this Defensive line get some pressure and helps this team generate some sacks whether it be at RDE, LDE or 3Tech...that makes the team better. If I want the team to have the most immediate impact to make it better the clear choice is Zeke and by a good margin IMO. If I want our secondary to be better I would be ok with Ramsey. Heck I could be ok with a trade down and give me a Rankins as a 3tech or a Spence as a DE.


Heck by your own argument...with this ownership, front office, head coach, scouts, OC and or QB Coach...do you think if they picked the QB that they would know he is a good QB and can use him to the best of his ability...by your own description of their ineptitude the answer would be no so why even draft a QB in the first place if we keep those who decide if he is worthy and coach him. Heck if we leave it to Jerry we would have JFF right now.

IT does not have to be ONE player or bust and linear thinking like that is silly....but I am not the messenger, you won't shoot me...I am just some random fan behind a keyboard on a sports forum on the internet conveying an opinion like the rest.

Awesome post. My sentiments exactly. We sometimes forget on this board that we are all on the same team. There are no absolutes here and some speak thier opinions as if its fact. Id love a QB @4 but there are a ton of guys in this draft that can help this team. No one can predict if one of the qbs in the following rounds can be developed into a great player.

I will say as much criticism as this front office has gotten for thier lack of being able to identify Romos successor we have been linked to several suitable replacements the last few years. Just missing on Russell Wilson and Andy Dalton comes to mind.

 

[DogFace]

You'd have to give me the variables before I could answer, who's available and who's been drafted?

I think the first pick means no one else has chosen.

 

[Stash]

Just using some of the smoke/rumor stuff going on.

Option 1.
1. Rams take GoffWentz
2. Browns take Wentz/Goff
3. Chargers take Tunsil

That's the worst scenario for me. I think it means you're stuck with neither quarterback, and likely no trade offers. Then I think you're looking at one of the two Ohio State guys, Bosa or Elliott. Hope for the best.

Option 2.
1. Rams take Goff
2. Browns trade pick to Cowboys for either 2nd & 3rd this year or 1st next year. Your choice on what to give up.

Personally, I'd give up next year's #1 if it was for Goff, not for Wentz. But that's just me. I'd decline the deal and hope Tunsil was there at #4. Is that an option or am I stuck taking the trade?

Option 3.

1. Rams take Goff/Wentz
2. Browns take Ramsey
3. Chargers take Tunsil

Take the quarterback. Hopefully, it's Goff, but I'd be happy with Wentz too and hopeful that Romo could help him to develop his talents.

 

[Stash]

I think the first pick means no one else has chosen.

I think he meant the Cowboys 1st pick. Or at least that's how I interpreted it.

 

[Stash]

You mean like Tim Couch, Ryan Leaf, RG3, Joey Harrington, Jemarcus Russell, Vince Young.....?

Don't confuse desperation with certainty.

And don't cherry pick some misses and call it truth either. I know what the actual research shows. Unlike some, I do my homework.

 

[DC Cowboy]

Not only that but PR wise Dallas would get absolutely slaughtered in the nation media if 1 year after declining to pay DeMacro Murray they invested their highest draft pick in a decade on a RB who isn't viewed as a Peterson or Gurley caliber back.

Don't agree with this, most national media types think Zeke is a good fit behind our line.

 

[DogFace]

And don't cherry pick some misses and call it truth either. I know what the actual research shows. Unlike some, I do my homework.

Educate us or provide some links.

Aren't you also cherry picking the successful ones?

Top 3 in the league right now were all taken after pick 20 with one undrafted and one in the 6th? round.

Off hand I can't name any top 5 picks and their success rate. But, I don't believe they are as good as these three that there was no consensus on.

 

[Risen Star]

I don't think Wentz will ever even amount to half a Romo. Not much of a nightmare watching Wentz sit the bench for two years, not even being active. And when Wentz finally becomes ready, it will be fun watching Ramsey intercept him or Bosa sacking him.

The only nightmare I envision is Eagle fans upset because Wentz is on the bench for 2016 and 2017and the Eagles don't have draft picks for 2017.

That's nice.

~flush~

 

[erod]

And don't cherry pick some misses and call it truth either. I know what the actual research shows. Unlike some, I do my homework.

Don't have to cherry pick. I'm FAR from convinced that Winston, Marriota, or Bortles are going to pan out. Most QBs don't, in fact.

I'm even starting to seriously wonder about Andrew Luck. He seems to have hit a wall.

 

[iceberg]

If that's the way you choose to see it, I'm fine with that. I'm stating what should be obvious. That quarterback is the most highly-valued position in sports and the actions of real NFL teams are showing that, despite what some fans might think.

not gonna dive too deep in the middle of this one - but i think we've gone around that before. i don't think anyone disagrees on the value of a qb.

given that, the disagreement isnt the value of the qb's in the draft but the need for a QB on a team during this draft. i also have to go on the side of treading dangerous ground when we're calling the ram and eagles "real" NFL teams. "real" NFL teams in my mind would not get themselves in a position to HAVE to give up 6 picks or so for 1 player. give or take. the eagles and rams are both in "blow this crap up" mode as well and this year they want an anchor, any anchor, in a storm.

just because someone gives up the farm for a player does not make that player worth that to anyone BUT said team. if the eagles still had chip kelly they'd likely not be going qb here. rams still in st louie, ditto. but both are looking to show fans the phoenix is rising and while i get you and others (myself included) wanted to go QB with our pick, to me it was *only if it made sense* and giving up so many picks for these qb's to me is insane and i never thought anyone would until they did.

does that speak to the quality of the player or the idiocy of these "real" teams? that's the point of debate, not the value of a solid qb.