BTB Vela: The Last Time Dallas Had a Football Guy in Charge...

[theebs]

Parcells won ten games with a defensive scheme that wasn't his coaching. It was a 4-3 and Parcells changed it, and it got progressively worse.

Wade never did worse... Wade Phillips also played with an injured Romo, busted bruises and messed up pinky, both last season and this season. If Romo didn't get hurt, the team most liekly would have been in the play-offs, because they would have needed one more game.

wait a darn minute. You are one of the guys that told me parcells sucks without bellichick, now you are whining about defensive schemes?

wade never did worse?

Wade never had to find a qb, rb, wr, te, lt, c, rt, pass rusher either.....pretty much all the skill positions.

and the skill position people he has brought in have not produced like anthony spencer.

its apples and oranges.

 

[Doomsday101]

Didn't I just say financially.... Of course it was cleaned up financially, and finances is a big factor in buildign a team. Dallas was in salary cap hell prior to the Parcells erea, and when he got here, Jerry had given BP every opprutunity to succeed. They could go out and actually sign players in free agency.

Further, the 'cleaning up' was initiated prior to Bill Parcells. That is why the Cowboys never drafted Randy Moss and they hired Calvin Hill as well. It was the 'cleaning up' image which screwed us in the first place, otherwise Moss would have had AIkman throwing to him and Galloway trade never would have happened.

I agree that is the reason Dallas brought in guys like Quinton Coryatt and Ryan Leaf they were guys who we could bring in at a cheap price. I will say BP was needed and did a good job with helping the Cowboys and I think the organization is better off because BP was here. I look at the players we have picked up since BP left and I also like what I see. I don't think this team is as bad off right now as some seem to suggest

 

[khiladi]

Quincy Carter. Troy Hambrick. End. Of. Argument.

And wasn't it Zimmer doing the coaching? The guy who started an entire movement he was so hated?

And Wade had Brian Stewart...

When Parcells went 10-6, the NFC East was pathetic and their schedule was one of the weakest in the league. Wade coached this year in the NFC East, when it was pretty much deemed the toughest division to play in. They also played 5 of the best defenses in the league, with a one-armed Tony Romo... Wade also had to compensate for the failures of Brain Stewart.

Parcells had one half season of Romo. Other than that he had three guys playing out the end of their careers - one of them just happened to be younger and more stoned than the other two.

You're shooting yourself in the foot here.

And how does that shoot me in the foot? Parcells had one half season with Romo, and that December, Romo turned the ball over plenty.... So the majority of the time that Parcells had Romo, he wasn't maximizing his potential... He was healthy...

 

[fanfromvirginia]

Parcells was pretty good and pretty good's not good enough. He took us from hopelessly crappy to not-quite-good-enough. The system and coaching were way better than average but the personnel acquisition was very hit and miss, especially OL.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

wait a darn minute. You are one of the guys that told me parcells sucks without bellichick, now you are whining about defensive schemes?

wade never did worse?

Wade never had to find a qb, rb, wr, te, lt, c, rt, pass rusher either.....pretty much all the skill positions.

and the skill position people he has brought in have not produced like anthony spencer.

its apples and oranges.

What does all that have to do with any thing? Any one but Parcells could fix those things over night. AZ is in the SB this year.

 

[theebs]

He had Quincy Carter one year... Parcells best year was 10-6 with a team that wasn't his, and a defensive scheme that wasn't his... What does that say for him? He coached his best here in Dallas with players that weren't his... Wow... amazing..

And like I said, Wade has coached better then Parcells, no matter what you say... Wade had Brad Johnson at 4 games, and Johnson couldn't sniff the field 30 yards down, while at least QC that year, was playing pretty decent...

A. johnson played 3 games.

B. Carter played decent but testaverde and bledsoe played terrible, yet the numbers are nearly identical.

C. Parcells is a lifelong linebacker coach and defensive coordinator, he can coach any scheme. its simple minded people and people with foggy memories who think he can coach only one way.

D. Go look at 03 closely. Really close. then come back and tell me what you see. If you do you will see we played the worst group of qb's ever that year and it helped us build confidence. The NY win in overtime sent this team into a belief level that carried on while they stayed healthy for weeks, like when we had the number 1 offense for the first half of the year.

Guys started getting hurt and carter got worse as the season went on. he threw the worst screen passes I have ever seen and he couldnt throw the out to the sideline to save his life.

There are lots of reasons 03 was so amazing. Most of it was coaching and alot of it was luck.

the fact that you are comparing what wade did in 08 with a team completely ready to win and the team parcells walked into in 03 proves all of the pro parcells peoples points, basically by default.

 

[khiladi]

wait a darn minute. You are one of the guys that told me parcells sucks without bellichick, now you are whining about defensive schemes?

Huh? Let me make it simple for you. The 4-3 that Dallas played, it wasn't the scheme of Parcells. Parcells changed the defense in hsi second, third and foruth year here, and the defense got progressively worse, the more his hands got involved in it.

wade never did worse?

Wade never had to find a qb, rb, wr, te, lt, c, rt, pass rusher either.....pretty much all the skill positions.

and the skill position people he has brought in have not produced like anthony spencer.

its apples and oranges.

Anthony Spencer hasn't produced? What have you been watching? The defense was playing the run much better whne he came in. He took downs 1 and 2 away from Greg Ellis. COnsidering that most scouts said it wouldn't be surprising that he cpould be defensive player of the year, players liek Joe Thomas considered him the hardest guy to block, most scouts had the pick as a steal....

Wade also brought in Jenkins, and Scandrick, people that were needed because Parcells had bums like Jacques Reeves... And how about that FS we had during the Parcells era... Oh yeah, we had to go out and pay big money to Hamlin, because we were stuck with Parcells guys...

 

[Dave_in-NC]

He had Quincy Carter one year... Parcells best year was 10-6 with a team that wasn't his, and a defensive scheme that wasn't his... What does that say for him? He coached his best here in Dallas with players that weren't his... Wow... amazing..

And like I said, Wade has coached better then Parcells, no matter what you say... Wade had Brad Johnson at 4 games, and Johnson couldn't sniff the field 30 yards down, while at least QC that year, was playing pretty decent...

And Phillips went 13-3 with Bills team. Then reality set in and he went 9-7.
More circles.

 

[khiladi]

A. johnson played 3 games.

B. Carter played decent but testaverde and bledsoe played terrible, yet the numbers are nearly identical.

C. Parcells is a lifelong linebacker coach and defensive coordinator, he can coach any scheme. its simple minded people and people with foggy memories who think he can coach only one way.

D. Go look at 03 closely. Really close. then come back and tell me what you see. If you do you will see we played the worst group of qb's ever that year and it helped us build confidence. The NY win in overtime sent this team into a belief level that carried on while they stayed healthy for weeks, like when we had the number 1 offense for the first half of the year.

Guys started getting hurt and carter got worse as the season went on. he threw the worst screen passes I have ever seen and he couldnt throw the out to the sideline to save his life.

There are lots of reasons 03 was so amazing. Most of it was coaching and alot of it was luck.

the fact that you are comparing what wade did in 08 with a team completely ready to win and the team parcells walked into in 03 proves all of the pro parcells peoples points, basically by default.

Keep diverting away from the point... How bad was the NFC East that year and how easy was the schedule of the Cowboys?

 

[khiladi]

And Phillips went 13-3 with Bills team. Then reality set in and he went 9-7.
More circles.

SO what does that say for Parcells going 10-6 his first year and then falling even farther than Wade? How are you proving your point?

 

[theebs]

Huh? Let me make it simple for you. The 4-3 that Dallas played, it wasn't the scheme of Parcells. Parcells changed the defense in hsi second, third and foruth year here, and the defense got progressively worse, the more his hands got involved in it.




Anthony Spencer hasn't produced? What have you been watching? The defense was playing the run much better whne he came in. He took downs 1 and 2 away from Greg Ellis. COnsidering that most scouts projected him to be defensive player of the year, players liek Joe Thomas considered him the hardest guy to block, most scouts had the pick as a steal....

Wade also brought in Jenkins, and Scandrick, people that were needed because Parcells had bums like Jacques Reeves... And how about that FS we had during the Parcells era... Oh yeah, we had to go out and pay big money to Hamlin, because we were stuck with Parcells guys...

again, You have numerous factual errors. Parcells played the 4-3 in 04, he was trying to get talent to play the 3-4 in 04 but guys like kalen thornton could not get healthy and bradie james was just not ready to be an every down player.

And here is a little trivia fact for you, that flies in the face of the bellichick makes parcells argument. Go look up what defense the patriots played in 96.

and again, Bums like jacques reeves. How could parcells and staff fix every hole in a year or two, it takes time to build a team. Are you really this naive.

Was he supposed to draft Demarcus ware, tom brady, namdi ashmonga, ed reed, adrian peterson and jason witten in the same year>?

what a foolish point that was.

You have got to do better. And getting some facts straight wouldnt kill you.

 

[IndianaCowboyFan]

Johnson and Landry were the only 2 football guys this team has ever had. Parcells was an all about me guy. He helped this team but he is a distant 3rd in terms of football guys.

 

[wileedog]

B

Pacman and Tank did nothing more than get people like yourselves panties in a wad.

Which is why Pacman, who was dirt cheap and from strictly a pay/performance ratio was a great value, will be back next year right? I mean obviously this off the field witch hunt by the media isn't effecting the team, so why aren't we bringing him back?

As for the 2007 draft we shall have to see The extra ffirst should not be discounted. That is Jenkins or Felix depending on how you look at it and I thought Spencer played pretty well especially considering he was taken out on passing downs, Marten busted , Anderson and Folk are solid esp for late rounders and its make or break for Free and especially Stanback. Its a mixed bag IMO.

Anderson is a JAG and a FB. Folk is a kicker - if you use a pick on one he better perform. Stanbeck was a dumb idea in the first place, and barring divine intervention will never beat out Austin anyway. Again, unless Spencer looks more like Ware and less like Carpenter next year this draft has to be looked at as a bust.

Hamlin played average.

$39M is a lot of money for average. I'll give you he has no partner back there even when ROy is in, but that was one heck of a drop off from the guy year before who HADN'T been paid. Ditto Davis.

If you think that we could have gotten anything other than low draft picks for Ayodele and Fasano you are kidding yourself.

We got one 2nd day pick for both of them.

As for the chemistry issues there are three things I buy:

1) TO bashing Garrett on NFL Network
2) Jones forcing Houck and Garrett on Wade.
3) Ellis' yearly whinefest to JJT

Actually, if I had to bet I would say Ellis is the infamous leak. Sounds just about his style. I would even posit that Ellis is a bigger chemistry problem than Tank or Pacman. He should be right up there with TO.

Agree, I have always said the fact that he is one of the "team leaders" shows itself every Sunday.

Things I do not buy.

1) Werder's sources take. All of the WR went to Jason Garrett.
2) The late to meetings/planes take. The story is like swiss cheese.
3) The meddling Jerry take. He was right on in having Stewart and Read's roles reduced. They sucked and Wade wasn't doing anything.

Jerry clearly supported and enabled TO's whining for the ball and Ellis incessant crying about playing time. How is that not undermining Garret and Wade? How is not undermining Wade not letting him increase fines? Jerry has always meddled going all the way back to post-Jimmy, that's who he is.

I agree Jerry was right in forcing Wade to take over the defense, but it scares the bejeebus out of me that Jerry wants to stick with a HC who could not come to that conclusion himself.

 

[khiladi]

again, You have numerous factual errors. Parcells played the 4-3 in 04, he was trying to get talent to play the 3-4 in 04 but guys like kalen thornton could not get healthy and bradie james was just not ready to be an every down player.

And here is a little trivia fact for you, that flies in the face of the bellichick makes parcells argument. Go look up what defense the patriots played in 96.

and again, Bums like jacques reeves. How could parcells and staff fix every hole in a year or two, it takes time to build a team. Are you really this naive.

Was he supposed to draft Demarcus ware, tom brady, namdi ashmonga, ed reed, adrian peterson and jason witten in the same year>?

what a foolish point that was.

You have got to do better. And getting some facts straight wouldnt kill you.

There are no factual errors in my post, so stop with the crap. I never said Parcells never coached a team with a 4-3. That doesn't mean it was his philosophy. He plays a 3-4 alignement. Parcells wanted the 3-4 in Dallas. That is undisputed. It got progressively worse. That is a fact, no matter how you spin it... One more time for you:

Parcells changed this defense to a 3-4.

In fact, it was because of this change, that Dallas hired Wade Phillips. He knew the 3-4 and Dallas invested heavily in it. Further, with Parcells, they couldn't sniff snacks. With Wade, they led the league in sacks, and he wasn't even coaching the defense the whole year. The failure of this team was in the offense and Garrett's pathetic play-calling, of which Wade had no control over.

 

[theebs]

Keep diverting away from the point... How bad was the NFC East that year and how easy was the schedule of the Cowboys?

the nfc east was the toughest part of the schedule.

Again you need to do much better than this and at least get some facts straight.

The eagles went to the nfc championsip in 02, on their way they beat the nyg in the playoffs.

so going into the 07 season the east had 2 playoff teams, going into the 03 season the east had 2 playoff teams.

and the giants were a sb favorite heading into 03.

seriously, do some research.

 

[wileedog]

So the majority of the time that Parcells had Romo, he wasn't maximizing his potential... He was healthy...

Romo went to the Pro Bowl in his first season starting and was undoubtedly one of the top 3 or 4 QBs in the league that year. WTH are you talking about maximizing his potential? He was way way worse this year with turnovers and stupid decisions. The biggest Romo homers in the world will tell you he regressed this year, and it wasn't because of injuries.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

SO what does that say for Parcells going 10-6 his first year and then falling even farther than Wade? How are you proving your point?

Parcells had to rebuild the team. He did just that, his body of work displayed very well last season.

 

[theebs]

There are no factual errors in my post, so stop with the crap. I never said Parcells never coached a team with a 4-3. That doesn't mean it was his philosophy. He plays a 3-4 alignement. Parcells wanted the 3-4 in Dallas. That is undisputed. It got progressively worse. That is a fact, no matter how you spin it... One more time for you:

Parcells changed this defense to a 3-4.

In fact, it was because of this change, that Dallas hired Wade Phillips. He knew the 3-4 and Dallas invested heavily in it. Further, with Parcells, they couldn't sniff snacks. With Wade, they led the league in sacks, and he wasn't even coaching the defense the whole year. The failure of this team was in the offense and Garrett's pathetic play-calling, of which Wade had no control over.

good grief.

 

[Alexander]

Romo went to the Pro Bowl in his first season starting and was undoubtedly one of the top 3 or 4 QBs in the league that year. WTH are you talking about maximizing his potential?

:laugh2:

Really.

This is an all-time first.

Coach Parcells deserves blame for not maximizing Romo's potential?

If it was up to Jerry Jones, we'd still have Clint Stoerner, Ryan Leaf, Quincy Carter, Chad Hutchinson, Drew Henson or another complete and utter waste at quarterback.

 

[wileedog]

The failure of this team was in the offense and Garrett's pathetic play-calling, of which Wade had no control over.

He's the head coach, he has control over everything.

Oh wait

http://www.***BANNED-URL***/sharedcontent/dws/pt/photos/2008/07/080724_NS_24CowboysW.jpg

Nevermind.