BTB Vela: The Last Time Dallas Had a Football Guy in Charge...

[Dave_in-NC]

That isn't the argument... We aren't worse off are we? We would need four years to determine that... Wade Phillips has done more record wise that Parcells did in two years...

Really? Not if you use the same argument.

We measured Parcells in play off wins and SBs.
Parcells started with nothing and won ten games his first season.
Phillips started with every thing and won three more games.

Still nothing on the ruler.
Phillips second season Started with even more and he did worse.
Still nothing.

I don't see much for next season either.

 

[wileedog]

Like there wasn't room for a 4th DE or a third RB with the squad as it was.

So he should have kept Ekuban? He would have been killed on this board if he had done that.

Or am I misunderstanding you?

 

[theebs]

The 07 draft is still way to early to call...Folk is a pro bowler, Spencer is going to get better, Ball has contributed, while Stanback and Free have not been able to show what they can do due to injury or who is in front of them.

I think both sides are a little jaded in there thinking here. Jones is far from perfect, but to say he has been awful since Parcells left is a stretch to say the least. The '08 draft was tremendous, Roy Williams is a number one reciever (I think it is easy to say he overpaid in hindsight) and he prudently signed Zach Thomas for very little. He did take a risk in bringing in PacMan which ultimately backfired, but considering the price it was a worthwhile gamble in my opinion.

Parcells was not perfect to say the least, it's insistance on bringing in "his" guys didn't exactly go over too well either...Bledsoe, Vinny, MeShawn, Coleman, and Fabian weren't exactly moves that will conjure up images of Bill Walsh...and people forget he signed criminals like Leonardo Carson and Jermaine Brooks both of whom weren't exactly choir boys early on his tenure.

The problem Jones has now is that he has accumaulated too much talent with very large egos and a coach who can't manage those egos....if he can correct that issue I think the detractors might start to second guess they're criticism of Jerrah.

Yes he did bring in carson and brooks. He even wrote the prison board to get carson a suspended or lessened sentence cant remember which.

If I remember correctly, carson had one incident and it wasnt a pattern and parcells believed he could help him.

I am not a fan of any criminals on my team, but at least behaved while he was here and he never got in trouble again.

and I love how no one brings up all the great undrafted guys we picked up or signed off of practice squads, which is a compliment to the front office parcells put in place.

guys like scott shanle, ryan fowler and kenyon coleman, shoot even corey procter.

but anyway I am going back to working on my first newsletter to my parcells fan club I run. Its entitled, we were all wrong, Parcells sucks without bellichick.

 

[Doomsday101]

The 07 draft is still way to early to call...Folk is a pro bowler, Spencer is going to get better, Ball has contributed, while Stanback and Free have not been able to show what they can do due to injury or who is in front of them.

I think both sides are a little jaded in there thinking here. Jones is far from perfect, but to say he has been awful since Parcells left is a stretch to say the least. The '08 draft was tremendous, Roy Williams is a number one reciever (I think it is easy to say he overpaid in hindsight) and he prudently signed Zach Thomas for very little. He did take a risk in bringing in PacMan which ultimately backfired, but considering the price it was a worthwhile gamble in my opinion.

Parcells was not perfect to say the least, it's insistance on bringing in "his" guys didn't exactly go over too well either...Bledsoe, Vinny, MeShawn, Coleman, and Fabian weren't exactly moves that will conjure up images of Bill Walsh...and people forget he signed criminals like Leonardo Carson and Jermaine Brooks both of whom weren't exactly choir boys early on his tenure.

07 class maybe is too early to tell but given how much many of them contributed in their rookie season I would say the odds are very good that these players will continue to develop into top pros. I'm not going to come down on BP I think he was needed but there are many picks that he helped to select that did not pan out and FA that did not work.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

Actually, the cess-pool was cleaned up in part, by Jerry. By the time BP came on board, Dallas was in a position to actually sign players, because they weren't bound by the back-loaded contracts that plagued the Cowboys, since the end days of the dynasty of past.... From a financial stan-point, Jerry had everything clean for BP to start afresh....

OMG. Dude cmon. Financially maybe. Quincy Carter was cleaned up?
Two failed baseball players?

Please. Don't go in circles, I get it.

 

[theebs]

So he should have kept Ekuban? He would have been killed on this board if he had done that.

Or am I misunderstanding you?

Ekuban got outplayed by a parcells guy all year in eric ogbogu and ekuban was a whiner.

he would fit in perfectly with the current locker room.

 

[wileedog]

That isn't the argument... We aren't worse off are we? We would need four years to determine that... Wade Phillips has done more record wise that Parcells did in two years...

You can't begin to tell me Wade Phillips could take that 2003 roster 13-3.

Most people call it a miracle and one of Bill's best coaching jobs he got it to 10-6.

You guys aren't comparing apples to apples here.

 

[theebs]

OMG. Dude cmon. Financially maybe. Quincy Carter was cleaned up?
Two failed baseball players?

Please. Don't go in circles, I get it.

LOL

I guess he forgot goodrich and derek ross....

All cleaned up for sure.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

You can't begin to tell me Wade Phillips could take that 2003 roster 13-3.

Most people call it a miracle and one of Bill's best coaching jobs he got it to 10-6.

You guys aren't comparing apples to apples here.

Because they can't.

 

[theebs]

You can't begin to tell me Wade Phillips could take that 2003 roster 13-3.

Most people call it a miracle and one of Bill's best coaching jobs he got it to 10-6.

You guys aren't comparing apples to apples here.

that is always the part the parcells haters miss. it doesnt get talked about because it doesnt fit the agenda.

they never give credit to him for hiring an above average coaching staff etc.

Which makes sense, because only sean payton and mo carthon were known and most hated the idea of carthon being here.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

The earlier one was with Romo starting his first half season and Ware still learning his position. It was without a $50M right guard and featured Julius Jones as the starting RB. They came within a field goal muff of winning a playoff game. They needed a few pieces and some maturity from some key guys to take the next step, and they almost did under Wade in 2007.

This team lost 3 straight to miss the playoffs, including an embarrassment in the 4thQ against Baltimore and a humiliation in Philly. THey are a fundamentally flawed football team not on the same page on offense, and lacking basic blocking and tackling skills. They are so distraught by this complete meltdown they are creating reality shows and rap videos at a record pace.

If you can't see the difference between the two directions the teams were/are heading I don't know what to tell you.

Parcells also didn't have to deal with all the injuries we did this year.

But he did have an 8-4 team that lost three of its last four. And those weren't four of the best teams in football like this year, either.

And he had a blank check to get the RG he wanted, and he chose a horse five steps away from the glue factory. For that matter, he had four years to get the players he wanted. Funny how Parcells was saddled with all these crappy players... Players that he was in charge of bringing in. You don't like Julius Jones? Then draft Stephen Jackson.

Someone once said that "You are what your record says you are."

He also said that "It's a production business."

Hey, 9-7 vs. 9-7.

 

[khiladi]

Really? Not if you use the same argument.

We measured Parcells in play off wins and SBs.
Parcells started with nothing and won ten games his first season.
Phillips started with every thing and won three more games.

Still nothing on the ruler.
Phillips second season Started with even more and he did worse.
Still nothing.

I don't see much for next season either.

Parcells won ten games with a defensive scheme that wasn't his coaching. It was a 4-3 and Parcells changed it, and it got progressively worse.

Wade never did worse... Wade Phillips also played with an injured Romo, busted bruises and messed up pinky, both last season and this season. If Romo didn't get hurt, the team most liekly would have been in the play-offs, because they would have needed one more game.

 

[wileedog]

Ekuban got outplayed by a parcells guy all year in eric ogbogu and ekuban was a whiner.

he would fit in perfectly with the current locker room.

Hey Ekuban learned it from the best - team leader Greg Ellis.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

LOL

I guess he forgot goodrich and derek ross....

All cleaned up for sure.

I guess. It's an amazing argument that's for sure.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

Parcells won ten games with a defensive scheme that wasn't his coaching. It was a 4-3 and Parcells changed it, and it got progressively worse.

Wade never did worse... Wade Phillips also played with an injured Romo, busted bruises and messed up pinky, both last season and this season. If Romo didn't get hurt, the team most liekly would have been in the play-offs, because they would have needed one more game.

13-3 to 9-7 isn't worse?

Parcells had Quincy Freaking Carter. Up in smoke carter. Good grief.

Wade had more and did worse in comparison. You won't ever get that though.

 

[khiladi]

OMG. Dude cmon. Financially maybe. Quincy Carter was cleaned up?
Two failed baseball players?

Please. Don't go in circles, I get it.

Didn't I just say financially.... Of course it was cleaned up financially, and finances is a big factor in buildign a team. Dallas was in salary cap hell prior to the Parcells erea, and when he got here, Jerry had given BP every opprutunity to succeed. They could go out and actually sign players in free agency.

Further, the 'cleaning up' was initiated prior to Bill Parcells. That is why the Cowboys never drafted Randy Moss and they hired Calvin Hill as well. It was the 'cleaning up' image which screwed us in the first place, otherwise Moss would have had AIkman throwing to him and Galloway trade never would have happened.

 

[wileedog]

Parcells won ten games with a defensive scheme that wasn't his coaching. It was a 4-3 and Parcells changed it, and it got progressively worse.

Quincy Carter. Troy Hambrick. End. Of. Argument.

And wasn't it Zimmer doing the coaching? The guy who started an entire movement he was so hated?

ade Phillips also played with an injured Romo, busted bruises and messed up pinky, both last season and this season. If Romo didn't get hurt, the team most liekly would have been in the play-offs, because they would have needed one more game.

Parcells had one half season of Romo. Other than that he had three guys playing out the end of their careers - one of them just happened to be younger and more stoned than the other two.

You're shooting yourself in the foot here.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

the 07 draft is turning out to be terrible.

Ken hamlin was a below average player this year.

he got hosed on 3 trades in the offseason.

He brought the three real boogeymen in the nfl into a great locker room.

Why does he not deserve critiscm. Guys like me loathe this style of managing, had he not brought in those three stooges even I wouldnt have a complaint about jerry because I would have believed he wised up. But he clearly hasnt.

the fact that you insult everyone else for even questioning what jerry has done in the last two years speaks volumes.

Boogeymen is the right word. Be afraid of whats under the bed indeed.

Pacman and Tank did nothing more than get people like yourselves panties in a wad.

As for the 2007 draft we shall have to see The extra ffirst should not be discounted. That is Jenkins or Felix depending on how you look at it and I thought Spencer played pretty well especially considering he was taken out on passing downs, Marten busted , Anderson and Folk are solid esp for late rounders and its make or break for Free and especially Stanback. Its a mixed bag IMO.

Hamlin played average. he also had poor play from Thomas and Burnett espeically tackling along with terrible safety play with the post Roy platoon. Musical chairs at both corner spots did not help either.

As for the three trades. The only one I can fault is jettisoning Ferg and keeping Tank. From a talent perspective that is obvious. In fairness Tank did appear to be having a good offseason.

If you think that we could have gotten anything other than low draft picks for Ayodele and Fasano you are kidding yourself.

As for the chemistry issues there are three things I buy:

1) TO bashing Garrett on NFL Network
2) Jones forcing Houck and Garrett on Wade.
3) Ellis' yearly whinefest to JJT

Actually, if I had to bet I would say Ellis is the infamous leak. Sounds just about his style. I would even posit that Ellis is a bigger chemistry problem than Tank or Pacman. He should be right up there with TO.

Things I do not buy.

1) Werder's sources take. All of the WR went to Jason Garrett.
2) The late to meetings/planes take. The story is like swiss cheese.
3) The meddling Jerry take. He was right on in having Stewart and Read's roles reduced. They sucked and Wade wasn't doing anything.

All of this general mu8mbo jumbo boogeyman garbage is just fearmongering.

 

[khiladi]

Parcells had Quincy Freaking Carter. Up in smoke carter. Good grief.

Wade had more and did worse in comparison. You won't ever get that though.

He had Quincy Carter one year... Parcells best year was 10-6 with a team that wasn't his, and a defensive scheme that wasn't his... What does that say for him? He coached his best here in Dallas with players that weren't his... Wow... amazing..

And like I said, Wade has coached better then Parcells, no matter what you say... Wade had Brad Johnson at 4 games, and Johnson couldn't sniff the field 30 yards down, while at least QC that year, was playing pretty decent...

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I guess. It's an amazing argument that's for sure.

Were they even with the Cowboys when they had their runins. Why stop there then. Hambrick had his runins. Newton too lets blame Jones for that too. Henderson I think had some runins wheil Jerry was GM so lets include that too.