Bucky Brooks: "It's a myth that elite QBs single-handedly carry their teams to wins"

[KJJ]

In the playoffs, teams are generally very close in talent level. The difference is more often than not the performance of the quarterback. Dont need to be hyperbolic about it to say KC beat SF specifically because Pat Mahomes was the outlier, not because he was the sole asset to the team.

Very true!

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

No you come here to hate on Dak and the rest of the Cowboys organization. I get it. It’s easy to be a hater. To give up. To have no hope. To just come here and crap on everything Cowboys. Doesn’t take much effort. More effort is needed to understand that it’s not just 1 persons fault. This isn’t Golf or Tennis. This is football at the highest level. Yet you put most of the blame on the QB, who led the league in TD passes, accuracy and others and was in the NFL MVP race finals. An All Pro. See how golden your hate is? We’re all LOL on the floor.

And you come here to hate everyone that dares disagree with you.

See how GOLDEN your hate is? It FEEDS and enriches your life.

Hate does it. Hate is poison no matter what form it manifests itself.

Stop hating...free yourself from poison.

 

[KJJ]

I absolutely agree with this, and it's exactly why I would be careful about paying top QB money.

If you don’t pay top QB money, you won’t have one that’s worth a hill of beans. You guys that think you can win a championship with a cheap QB are kidding yourselves. They may not win games single-handedly, but they influence the outcome of games, especially championships more than any other player. The difference in last years Super Bowl was Patrick Mahomes. Purdy had an opportunity to close out the game and couldn’t do it and Mahomes did. Mahomes is the main reason KC has won back-to-back championships. He was able to overcome their deficiencies at WR. That position cost them some games last season.

 

[Rockport]

And you come here to hate everyone that dares disagree with you.

See how GOLDEN your hate is? It FEEDS and enriches your life.

Hate does it. Hate is poison no matter what form it manifests itself.

Stop hating...free yourself from poison.

Gold I tell ya, pure GOLD.

 

[DandyDon52]

It isnt a myth, it just doesnt happen much now days except with mahomes.

I am watching SB 19 I think with montana vs marino.
In the 1st qrt it is 3-0 miami, SF is right at the 50 with a 3rd and 7, their offense had struggled, and joe avoids a sack and takes off
on a 25-30 yd run for 1st down! and he wasnt a running qb.
Next play he finds his rb, who was a bkup guy open and gets it to him,on a touch pass, and that guy runs it in for td.

2 plays totally changed the game and momentum SF now leads 7-3 , and I think they lead the rest of the game. need to watch rest of it,but know they win.
So when a qb does something like that, it can change the game in favor of his team.
The reverse is true if he plays poorly or throws int's.

 

[thunderpimp91]

If you don’t pay top QB money, you won’t have one that’s worth a hill of beans. You guys that think you can win a championship with a cheap QB are kidding yourselves. They may not win games single-handedly, but they influence the outcome of games, especially championships more than any other player. The difference in last years Super Bowl was Patrick Mahomes. Purdy had an opportunity to close out the game and couldn’t do it and Mahomes did. Mahomes is the main reason KC has won back-to-back championships. He was able to overcome their deficiencies at WR. That position cost them some games last season.

Sure and if we had Mahomes on the Cowboys it's a non discussion. For most QBs in the league I would be careful though. Not only is Mahomes the best QB in football, he also took a very team friendly 10 year deal. Him and Brady are the only big money QBs to consistently make it to the super bowl. Brady also got his money in his 2010 deal ($18M AAV) and then left money on the table with each additional extension ($13M AAV in 2013, 9M AAV in 2015, $20M in 2016, $15M in 2018, $23M in 2019, $25M in 2020, $15M in 2022. Outside of those two who played on mostly team friendly deals the evidence is pretty split:

Mahomes v Purdy - 1 big money, 1 rookie deal
Mahomes v Hurts - 1 big money, 1 rookie deal
Stafford v Burrow - 1 big money, 1 rookie deal
Mahomes v Brady - 1 big money, 1 rookie deal
Mahomes v Jimmy G - 1 big money, 1 rookie deal
Brady V Foles - 1 medium money, 1 cheap deal
Brady V Ryan - 1 medium money, 1 big money
Manning V Newton - Both big money
Brady V Wilson - 1 medium money, 1 rookie deal
Wilson V Manning - 1 big money, 1 rookie deal
Flaco V Kaepernick - both on rookie deals

If you go back further than that I think it starts to support a model where you need to pay your QB as the super bowls and CCGs were dominated by the same guys (Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Big Ben, Warner, both Mannings, etc.) however in 2011 no QB took up more than 14% of the cap at signing. Fast forward to today and you have 15QBs currently taking up more than that and the list about to grow, with 11 of those north of 20% going up to the leader of Joe Burrow at 24.5%.

It's simply a different world in the 2020s than we lived in the previous decades. If the contracts were simply exploding in terms of an amount proportionate to the explosion of the salary cap I would be with you 100% in you need to just resign your guy if he is at least an above average starter. The fact that we are seeing such a drastic increase in % of the cap going to the QB position I think makes it incredibly more difficult to build a true contender, especially one that isnt in a Rams type of all in on one year model. For that reason I would be very selective about which QBs I would give extensions to.

 

[thunderpimp91]

It isnt a myth, it just doesnt happen much now days except with mahomes.

I am watching SB 19 I think with montana vs marino.
In the 1st qrt it is 3-0 miami, SF is right at the 50 with a 3rd and 7, their offense had struggled, and joe avoids a sack and takes off
on a 25-30 yd run for 1st down! and he wasnt a running qb.
Next play he finds his rb, who was a bkup guy open and gets it to him,on a touch pass, and that guy runs it in for td.

2 plays totally changed the game and momentum SF now leads 7-3 , and I think they lead the rest of the game. need to watch rest of it,but know they win.
So when a qb does something like that, it can change the game in favor of his team.
The reverse is true if he plays poorly or throws int's.

I think this is very accurate and really creates a discussion around why. Is QB play not as good these days? Are veteran QBs making too much money to build a contending team around them? Are the rules too offense friendly in the modern game where even bad to mediocre QBs can put up big numbers?

 

[KJJ]

Sure and if we had Mahomes on the Cowboys it's a non discussion. For most QBs in the league I would be careful though. Not only is Mahomes the best QB in football, he also took a very team friendly 10 year deal.

Mahomes’ deal isn’t that team friendly or they wouldn’t have had to trade Tyreek Hill. No way are you going to pay a QB $40+ million and not have to make some concessions.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Mahomes’ deal isn’t that team friendly or they wouldn’t have had to trade Tyreek Hill. No way are you going to pay a QB $40+ million and not have to make some concessions.

People underrate the Chiefs ability to find cheap talent. Their best players on defense besides Chris Jones were getting paid nothing.

 

[thunderpimp91]

Mahomes’ deal isn’t that team friendly or they wouldn’t have had to trade Tyreek Hill.

Why do those have to be directly correlated? Since Tyreek was traded KC has spent $255M (average contract $4.6M AAV) on new free agents contracts. In that same time period the Cowboys have spent $105M (average contract $2.6M AAV).

Despite moving on from Hill the Chiefs have continued to spend money to improve their roster. I think it's very likely they simply saw an opportunity to bring in a plethora of draft picks to offset some of the free agent spending, and simply didn't feel a $30+M receiver was the best way to build a team. They also emphasized spending on the Oline and Defense in recent years which looking at the bargain bin for WRs. Good chance Andy Reid believes he can work with buy low candidate WRs with a top tier QB and a good defense, similar to what the Patriots did for years under Brady.

It doesnt get talked about but that Tyreek Hill trade worked out very well for KC as they freed up money and landed a top young CB.

 

[thunderpimp91]

People underrate the Chiefs ability to find cheap talent. Their best players on defense besides Chris Jones were getting paid nothing.

Because many of their best players on defense were draft picks since the Tyreek Hill trade, and they picked up a total of 5 picks in that trade. Chenal, McDuffie, Williams were all defensive selections from the 2022 draft. When you have both a high quantity and quality of picks (I think 6 in the top 150 selections that year) you should be able to find cheaper talent.

 

[KJJ]

Why do those have to be directly correlated? Since Tyreek was traded KC has spent $255M (average contract $4.6M AAV) on new free agents contracts. In that same time period the Cowboys have spent $105M (average contract $2.6M AAV).

Despite moving on from Hill the Chiefs have continued to spend money to improve their roster. I think it's very likely they simply saw an opportunity to bring in a plethora of draft picks to offset some of the free agent spending, and simply didn't feel a $30+M receiver was the best way to build a team. They also emphasized spending on the Oline and Defense in recent years which looking at the bargain bin for WRs. Good chance Andy Reid believes he can work with buy low candidate WRs with a top tier QB and a good defense, similar to what the Patriots did for years under Brady.

It doesnt get talked about but that Tyreek Hill trade worked out very well for KC as they freed up money and landed a top young CB.

It’s connected because Hill is one of the top WR‘s in the league and they couldn’t afford to pay him. Andy Reid came right out and said it. Their WR position last season almost derailed them. They would’ve never reached the Super Bowl without Kelce. They lost their opener without him. They struggled all season at WR. They would be way better if they still had Hill.

 

[KJJ]

It doesnt get talked about but that Tyreek Hill trade worked out very well for KC as they freed up money and landed a top young CB.

It worked out because they have a generational QB who was able to overcome their issues at WR. They’ve built a good defense but they would really be scary with Tyreek Hill. In all the trade worked out for both teams. Miami has the most explosive tandem at WR in the league.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

He never said he stares down "all the time". Implying...ALL the time. EVERY time.

Why are you lying about it so you can argue?

And yet here you are...having the time. Weird/

lol lying. Here to defend fair Dulcinea? I suggest you learn the meaning of the word 'if.'

I wasn't trying to have him understand.

 

[thunderpimp91]

It’s connected because Hill is one of the top WR‘s in the league and they couldn’t afford to pay him. Andy Reid came right out and said it. Their WR position last season almost derailed them. They would’ve never reached the Super Bowl without Kelce. They lost their opener without him. They struggled all season at WR. They would be way better if they still had Hill.

I would disagree simply because they still spent a ton of money in 2022, and 2023. North of $200M they spent in those two years in free agency but couldn't find the money to keep Hill? Plus without the Hill trade odds are they don't end up with that 2022 draft class which looks like a massive home run. I agree that Hill obviously makes their WR unit stronger and offense more explosive, but it seems pretty obvious that they valued the cap space and draft picks more than Hill. They could have made it work if they really wanted to based on the other money spent.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Because many of their best players on defense were draft picks since the Tyreek Hill trade, and they picked up a total of 5 picks in that trade. Chenal, McDuffie, Williams were all defensive selections from the 2022 draft. When you have both a high quantity and quality of picks (I think 6 in the top 150 selections that year) you should be able to find cheaper talent.

I disagree. You still have to actually find the talent. I see teams with two first rounders screw it up.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

It worked out because they have a generational QB who was able to overcome their issues at WR. They’ve built a good defense but they would really be scary with Tyreek Hill. In all the trade worked out for both teams. Miami has the most explosive tandem at WR in the league.

And I’ve discussed that with some….Chiefs choice other talent to keep over Tyreek….talent they could do without.

 

[KJJ]

I would disagree simply because they still spent a ton of money in 2022, and 2023. North of $200M they spent in those two years in free agency but couldn't find the money to keep Hill? Plus without the Hill trade odds are they don't end up with that 2022 draft class which looks like a massive home run. I agree that Hill obviously makes their WR unit stronger and offense more explosive, but it seems pretty obvious that they valued the cap space and draft picks more than Hill. They could have made it work if they really wanted to based on the other money spent.

Disagree, but Andy Reid said they couldn’t afford to pay him. No way did they want to move on from him. He’s the most dangerous, explosive WR in the entire league.

 

[thunderpimp91]

It worked out because they have a generational QB who was able to overcome their issues at WR. They’ve built a good defense but they would really be scary with Tyreek Hill. In all the trade worked out for both teams. Miami has the most explosive tandem at WR in the league.

I wont say that you're wrong, Hill is an unbelievable talent, but I think it's at very least up for debate that KC with Hill but minus those 5 draft picks (Including Trent McDuffie) and a couple of their 2022 FA signings are not as good of a team right now. That 2022 draft class they had was really....really good.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

lol lying. Here to defend fair Dulcinea? I suggest you learn the meaning of the word 'if.'

I wasn't trying to have him understand.

Oh...my you used "if"? Oh my....well that cements your argument then. Excuse me....you qualified it so it wouldn't matter what stand you took. Admirable.