Bucs adding full-time coaching job for women

Jipper

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The league has no male only policy for players it doesn't need one. Has there ever been a time in the leagues history where women would be accepted on a playing field in the same way. Even encouraged to tryout? I highly doubt it. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with any of it mind you just that I could see why they wouldn't need an actual policy.

Now if Bruce Arians wants to discriminate that's his choice and I really don't care if women coach or in what capacity. Does it help them be a better team is the only result that matters to me. If it doesn't accomplish that then I have no use for it. I may alter my opinion after the position and details are made clear but right now it doesn't bother me in the slightest.

again, my question comes back to is it legal in the workplace to set a role officially aside for a specific gender.

I would assume the answer is no...also trying to not get political just asking legality
 

Jipper

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*A world where 100 percent of NFL coaching jobs are held by men*

Bruce Arians: I’m going to give a coaching opportunity to a woman.

Multiple posters here: DISCRIMINATION AGAINST MEN! NOT FAIR!

Honestly I don’t think that’s the point that has some fires up, hiring women is great and I would hope that you find few men in this day and age that dispute that.

However hiring a woman for the sake of hiring a woman when there are much better qualified men to be hired is the issue. Setting aside a role for a specific gender is the issue. The same argument could be made were the situation reversed in a female dominated environment.

Hire the best qualified for the job
 

InTheZone

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Honestly I don’t think that’s the point that has some fires up, hiring women is great and I would hope that you find few men in this day and age that dispute that.

However hiring a woman for the sake of hiring a woman when there are much better qualified men to be hired is the issue. Setting aside a role for a specific gender is the issue. The same argument could be made were the situation reversed in a female dominated environment.

Hire the best qualified for the job
unfortunately it appears for some it's not about equality. It's sad you have to even explain this. (not blaming you, the others that go to extremes and see it as black and white)
 

RamziD

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LOL.

No bad thing is being done to anyone just because Arians is hiring a woman. He’s the head coach of the Buccaneers. He can hire whoever he damn wants to fill out his staff.

But who will think of the men!
 

ABQCOWBOY

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So, you’re saying Arians is issuing a mandate to hire female coaches? That he’s ordering the people under his authority to hire female coaches? That’s a pretty weird way to describe creating a job for women. So anything that has a requirement is considered a mandate? Like, if you have to be 40 inches to ride a ride at Disney world it’s a mandate? That’s kind of a loose interpretation.

No, you said I didn't know what I was talking about so I provided you with the actual definition and asked you to explain the difference. I'll ask you again, what is the difference? If the head coach says he's creating a position for a woman, then it stands to reason that only a woman can have the job. That is a mandate. Explain to me how it isn't, based on definition and language used by Bruce Arians?

The answer to your question is yes. That is a mandate. That is the very definition of the word. It is not a loose interpretation, it is the exact definition of what mandate is.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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I never said all male coaches have been good or great. I never insinuated men can only be good or great at coaching. The best fit is exactly just that, the best fit. If an upcoming great female coach comes around that's fine, but to say "I want women coaches because diversity!" that leaves a lot of interpretation, such as just having a woman coach regardless of her skill. I never said women can't coach, but I think a lot of coaches start somewhere lower than the NFL.

I will never understand the mindset of "include me because different", that's all I'm saying. And judging by some of these insecure posts I'm seeing makes me question if it's even about finding new great talent. How many women coaches are even out there? And we want to balance this number in the NFL by just hiring on the spot or are we going to accept that staffs will mostly consist of men since I rarely see women coaching football at any level. I feel like some pushing women don't have the best interest of the NFL.

This is really it. I don't see people in this thread saying women can't coach. I see people in this thread saying the best, most qualified person for the job should get the job. Is there a savant out there that is female and that might be better then anybody else for the job? There could be but then again, the odds are better that there isn't. The simple fact of the matter is that Coaches in the NFL aren't typically people who have never had any experience with the game.

I would be willing to wager that most, if not all, have played at some level along the way. It may not be at a Pro Level but it is at some level. Imagine if you will, you have a job in some vocation, where you have 20 years of practical, applicable experience. You have literally done it all, with regards to your craft. Then image that management decides to bring in somebody who will be put over you, who has no practical experience with your craft and who is now instructing you and training you on how best to do the job. Imagine further that you will be evaluated and held responsible on how well you do your job, based on the results. How would you fell about that situation because that's exactly the situation that we are discussing here. There is no way anybody is going to be OK with that situation.

Now, I can see where there are certain areas where experience with actually playing the game might not be as important but I can see none were experience would be of no value.

We sit here and we rail about how equality matters but then we say that we need to set aside jobs for women because why? It should not be that way. It should be the best person for the job gets the job. That is literally the only way this will work. If you set it up to be otherwise, the woman who gets the job is going to fail because Football is not about equality. The entire game is based on performance and who is better at every aspect of the game. I men, you guys do realize that what we are talking about here is diametrically opposite to everything about the game of football right? Any woman who is put in that position is going to fail because the players are not going to accept her, because of how you are trying to do this. Hell, any man would likewise fail because players and coaches don't respect anybody who didn't earn it. It's a perception thing and you are not going to get around that. They may tolerate that person, for awhile but it's only a matter of time before it all comes crashing down around whomever that person is.

If you were really interested in seeing a woman succeed in the NFL, then you wouldn't be trying to do this, in this manner. All you would be accomplishing by such a move is to insure failure and make it even more difficult for the person who comes later, who maybe did it in another way. Who maybe put the time in and did the hard work it takes to create a profession at the highest level of the sport.

I think this is a bad mistake but hey, if Arians wants to do this, more power to him. I applaud any stupid decision that any other Franchise might be willing to make. Full speed ahead I say. I'm just sorry for the women who might be thrown under the bus in the name of progress here.
 
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RamziD

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No, you said I didn't know what I was talking about so I provided you with the actual definition and asked you to explain the difference. I'll ask you again, what is the difference? If the head coach says he's creating a position for a woman, then it stands to reason that only a woman can have the job. That is a mandate. Explain to me how it isn't, based on definition and language used by Bruce Arians?

The answer to your question is yes. That is a mandate. That is the very definition of the word. It is not a loose interpretation, it is the exact definition of what mandate is.

Ok, after thinking it over, technically it’s a mandate, just on a smaller level. So you’re right, my apologies. The mandate I’m thinking about and I think is the more applicable one is if the NFL were to mandate that all teams create a position for women. To me, that’s how the word is usually used.

In the end it’s going to come down to qualifications, I’m pretty certain the job that Arians is going to create is some type of analyst or QC job or something similar. It might be an internship. Both Jen Welter and Katie Sowers were interns for an NFL team before moving up. There are going to be women who have similar qualifications to men for the same job and that’s the pool that I’m sure Arians is alluding to. Look
at Welter, she played and coached in a professional football league before getting an internship with the Cards. So, I don’t think it’s going to hurt the team or anyone else as long as the hire meets the qualifications for the job.

Edit: On being the most qualified, that’s never really the case. The most qualified person does not always get hired, that can be seen across all professions (exhibit A: Kellen Moore). There’s no legal requirement to hire the most qualified person. Also, opinions on what makes a person qualified can differ.
 
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ABQCOWBOY

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Ok, after thinking it over, technically it’s a mandate, just on a smaller level. So you’re right, my apologies. The mandate I’m thinking about and I think is the more applicable one is if the NFL were to mandate that all teams create a position for women. To me, that’s how the word is usually used.

In the end it’s going to come down to qualifications, I’m pretty certain the job that Arians is going to create is some type of analyst or QC job or something similar. It might be an internship. Both Jen Welter and Katie Sowers were interns for an NFL team before moving up. There are going to be women who have similar qualifications to men for the same job and that’s the pool that I’m sure Arians is alluding to. Look
at Welter, she played and coached in a professional football league before getting an internship with the Cards. So, I don’t think it’s going to hurt the team or anyone else as long as the hire meets the qualifications for the job.

Edit: On being the most qualified, that’s never really the case. The most qualified person does not always get hired, that can be seen across all professions (exhibit A: Kellen Moore). There’s no legal requirement to hire the most qualified person. Also, opinions on what makes a person qualified can differ.

Most qualified is always the way to go. Now, any given candidate may not be the most qualified in our eyes, but this goes back to something I posted yesterday. The most qualified person is the one that the owner hires and deems most qualified because it is he or she that must live with the hire. Lots of factors go into that and they may not always line up with what we see. That's true. Still in all, the best practice will always be to hire the most qualified person.
 

windward

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But who will think of the men!
1. Hire the most qualified for the job.
2. The lack of women historically in the profession means they will never be the “most qualified”
3. Shrug, throw your hands up in the air and proclaim “There’s nothing we can do!”
 

ABQCOWBOY

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1. Hire the most qualified for the job.
2. The lack of women historically in the profession means they will never be the “most qualified”
3. Shrug, throw your hands up in the air and proclaim “There’s nothing we can do!”

I agree with this take, to a point. However, I don't believe that it will always be this way. The simple fact of the matter is that we don't have enough people in this world, as it is, who care enough to spend time teaching young people how to play football, baseball, whatever sport. I mean, we just don't. If women step forward and start getting more involved in this early stage of development, then you will see more women coming up who are more qualified to do the job IMO. Now, I don't think there is ever going to be a 1 to 1 ratio because it's just physically impossible to have that but, I don't think the book is closed and the approach is just to throw your hands up in the air. I think there will be opportunities but it's going to be a process. I don't believe that the way to do this is to create jobs for woman. I think that will eventually do more harm then good.

That's just my opinion thou.
 

Big_D

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You would think Cowboy fans especially would know hiring the best candidate is the biggest line of crap after watching Jerry’s boy toy for 15 years! lol sad that if 2 people show up for an interview that you already know the hire before they walk through the door. There are women who played HS football, played in other defunct leagues, kicked in college, 1 just got a football scholarship. Plenty working within organizations, know the sport inside and out, been studying it. So pretending to know the most qualified strictly on gender or insinuating that this is a normal NFL practice is laughable and a little dense on top of it.
 

Brax

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Bruce Arians to add full-time coaching job for women

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...to-create-fulltime-coaching-job-for-women?cam

  • 0ap1000000236552.jpg
  • By Kevin Patra
  • Around the NFL Writer
  • Published: March 6, 2019 at 09:03 a.m.
  • Updated: March 6, 2019 at 05:37 p.m.
Tampa Bay Buccaneers coach Bruce Arians continues his effort to employ the most diverse coaching staff in the NFL.

During the third annual Women's Careers in Football Forum at the NFL Scouting Combine last week, Arians told Melissa Jacobs of TheFootballGirl.com he plans to establish a full-time coaching position on his staff for a woman.
So discrimination is alive and well in the NFL , funny how this works, the qualified one doesn't get the job , isn't that what no discrimination means, the most qualified gets the job. It is simple if a women is most qualified they should get the job. Do not see how this can be legal anymore that if a job was created for just a male or any other group alive exclusively.
 

Brax

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It's a new position.

No one is being passed over for the hire.
except only a women need apply, all others need not apply and are disqualified from applying, the perfect description of discrimination.
 

TheCount

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except only a women need apply, all others need not apply and are disqualified from applying, the perfect description of discrimination.

Sure. Let me know when you start your petition for hairy dudes in speedos in the SI Swimsuit Issue.
 
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