Camelot, The Borgias, Game of Thrones.

[Kevinicus]

Well HBO certainly took their liberties with that episode.

 

[theogt]

Well HBO certainly took their liberties with that episode.

All week I was pumped to see two episodes of GOT. I opened up the HBO Go app only to realize it's NEXT weekend. Ugh.....

 

[Khartun]

WTH, did I miss something in the books? I don't recall the Renly/Loras scene in the books. I don't even recall it mentioning they were gay at any point.

I was very disappointed that they didn't show the trip up to the Aerie. You didn't really get the sense of just how high and impenetrable it was supposed to be.

I realize that there are limitations on how much they can show but I hope in future seasons that they will either allow more episodes or make the season half of a book. Otherwise they will have to leave out too much. The first book is tiny compared to the next few. There will be a ton left out if they try to make them 1 book to a season.

 

[YosemiteSam]

That episode was not very exciting.

HBO GO is useless if I can't watch the next episode now.

Sucks that I haven't already read the books. It's probably going to suck watching the show then going back and reading the books. I prefer to do it the other way around.

 

[Kevinicus]

WTH, did I miss something in the books? I don't recall the Renly/Loras scene in the books. I don't even recall it mentioning they were gay at any point.

I was very disappointed that they didn't show the trip up to the Aerie. You didn't really get the sense of just how high and impenetrable it was supposed to be.

I realize that there are limitations on how much they can show but I hope in future seasons that they will either allow more episodes or make the season half of a book. Otherwise they will have to leave out too much. The first book is tiny compared to the next few. There will be a ton left out if they try to make them 1 book to a season.

There is no scene, and it's never explicitly stated, but there are subtle hints that one can infer such information from. Loras seemed way too scrawny, and Renly way too weak and fearful though. This episode was a mixed bag for me. Some of it (mostly what adhered to the book) were my favorite parts of the show thus far, other parts (where they deviated, and in some cases completely lost the point of the scenes) were my least favorite.

Two scenes, they kept, but altered really bugged me, The king wanting to joust without the lead-up to that, or any mention of it, pretty much kills the point of the scene. Also the scene in the brothel, the baby was all wrong, and completely misses the point of that as well.

While I understand what they are trying to do by setting some things up for the future with certain characters, some of the scenes just feel like they don't belong and could be better to expand on other scenes (the tourney and the ridiculous arm raising bit come to mind). Other added scenes work rather well though (Cersei & Robert for example). The changes made to the fight in the streets don't bother me, and I think worked well because there's not really any information lost and a little jaime/ned action and a spear in lieu of a horse doesn't hurt the story.

 

[JD_KaPow]

WTH, did I miss something in the books? I don't recall the Renly/Loras scene in the books. I don't even recall it mentioning they were gay at any point.

Well, it couldn't have been in the books, since there are no Renly or Loras POV chapters. IIRC, there are enough hints that it seems plausible.

I realize that there are limitations on how much they can show but I hope in future seasons that they will either allow more episodes or make the season half of a book. Otherwise they will have to leave out too much. The first book is tiny compared to the next few. There will be a ton left out if they try to make them 1 book to a season.

I'm almost through the 3rd book, and I have to say, there's a lot of padding in it. I wonder if Martin's gotten too powerful to be edited - I think you could easily cut a couple hundred pages and end up with a better, tighter book.

 

[Khartun]

Well, it couldn't have been in the books, since there are no Renly or Loras POV chapters. IIRC, there are enough hints that it seems plausible.

Haha, I guess there couldn't have been.

 

[Teren_Kanan]

I'm almost through the 3rd book, and I have to say, there's a lot of padding in it. I wonder if Martin's gotten too powerful to be edited - I think you could easily cut a couple hundred pages and end up with a better, tighter book.

Uh.. No.

You take a couple hundred pages out, and you miss things like Renly/Loras relationship. Which isn't "Plausible" It's definitely the case in the books.

There is no scene, and it's never explicitly stated, but there are subtle hints that one can infer such information from. Loras seemed way too scrawny, and Renly way too weak and fearful though. This episode was a mixed bag for me. Some of it (mostly what adhered to the book) were my favorite parts of the show thus far, other parts (where they deviated, and in some cases completely lost the point of the scenes) were my least favorite.

Two scenes, they kept, but altered really bugged me, The king wanting to joust without the lead-up to that, or any mention of it, pretty much kills the point of the scene. Also the scene in the brothel, the baby was all wrong, and completely misses the point of that as well.

While I understand what they are trying to do by setting some things up for the future with certain characters, some of the scenes just feel like they don't belong and could be better to expand on other scenes (the tourney and the ridiculous arm raising bit come to mind). Other added scenes work rather well though (Cersei & Robert for example). The changes made to the fight in the streets don't bother me, and I think worked well because there's not really any information lost and a little jaime/ned action and a spear in lieu of a horse doesn't hurt the story.

SMALL SPOILERS AHEAD (nothing major, just being safe)

Overall I liked the episode, but I did have some small problems. Also, long post incoming.

I completely agree with you on Loras/Renly. Loras had NO muscle at all. He's supposed to be feminine, but you don't practice with swords and armor all the time, and have no muscle tone.

Renly also seemed much less confident than his character in the book. He certainly wasn't (to our knowledge) thinking about being a king at that point in time.

As for showing Renly/Loras being gay? Not a problem in itself, it was done VERY subtly in the books and that's hard to convey the same way on TV. The only problem I have with it is the timing. There was just no reason to build either of their characters at this point, and it takes a little bit away from Renly's future marriage, or at least the readers thoughts on it when it is taking place in the books.

I don't have a problem with Robert wanting to joust really. The scene didn't play out too much differently than him just being drunk DURING it and saying he wanted to do it. I can understand why they did it that way, and I don't feel it took anything away from the scene. Though if I recall correctly (Been a while since I read the first book), Robert wanted to fight in the Melee, not the Joust. Which they have neglected to even state is happening (If it is) thus far, which is curious 'cause it's the best opportunity to introduce Thoros of Myr.

As for the baby scene? I don't see what point it missed. The only purpose of the scene (In the book and show) is to show hair color of baby and mother. Both were accomplished here.

I hated the arm raising bit with Loras/Hound. In the book, that was the final tilt for the Championship. I'm pretty sure they didn't even mention it in this episode, just seemed like another random joust. Loras raising the hounds hand didn't play off the same without it being the final joust. Here it just kinda seemed like a really nice gesture to the guy who possibly saved him, in the book it was pretty much Loras declaring the Hound as the champion of the Tourney. Perhaps this can be rectified with some added backtrack dialogue in the next episode.

And while we are discussing the Hound, he is currently the only character I feel that has been done incorrectly enough for it to bother me. You do NOT like him in the books especially at this stage. His character depth is added later. Your first impressions of him is he's a heartless murdering *******. They simply haven't conveyed that well enough. That aside, I *do* like the character in the series, it's just coming off as different than the books.

The entire joust was definitely a little underwhelming. I don't have a problem with the size if it like everyone seems to.. it's pretty much identical to what I imagined in terms of over all design and attendance. The lack of showing the DEPTH of the competition is upsetting though, and neglecting to even mention the Melee/Archery parts.


I enjoyed the exchange between Vary's and Littlefinger, quite the **** waving contest ( lol ).

I really liked the scene with Robert and Cersei. It added depth to both characters and did a decent job of conveying things you get from Cersei's inner monologue. I'm still a bit offput by the story of her first child's death.. completely different from the books if it holds up, but it's another thing that can be rectified by future dialogue.

As for the final scene? I LOVED IT as far as TV shows go. The death of Jory was awesome. My problems with this scene stem from earlier problems with the show so far. They've kinda made it seem like, via dialogue exchanges between Ned/Jaime, and this recent fight, that Ned would stand a chance vs Jaime in battle. While this might be true, it's not conveyed like that in the books. Jaime is built up much better in the books as being a complete and total bad***. One of the absolute best Jousters and Swordsman in Westeros, that few could match up against. I certainly never got the impression that Ned could take him on.


Ah well though. The changes aren't necessarily bad.. they are just different. Sorta like Dexter Season 1 vs Book 1. Lots of changes, both are very different but both are awesome.

Still shaping up to be one of my all time favorite shows, if not my favorite.

 

[Kevinicus]

Uh.. No.

You take a couple hundred pages out, and you miss things like Renly/Loras relationship. Which isn't "Plausible" It's definitely the case in the books.




SMALL SPOILERS AHEAD (nothing major, just being safe)

Overall I liked the episode, but I did have some small problems. Also, long post incoming.

I completely agree with you on Loras/Renly. Loras had NO muscle at all. He's supposed to be feminine, but you don't practice with swords and armor all the time, and have no muscle tone.

Renly also seemed much less confident than his character in the book. He certainly wasn't (to our knowledge) thinking about being a king at that point in time.

As for showing Renly/Loras being gay? Not a problem in itself, it was done VERY subtly in the books and that's hard to convey the same way on TV. The only problem I have with it is the timing. There was just no reason to build either of their characters at this point, and it takes a little bit away from Renly's future marriage, or at least the readers thoughts on it when it is taking place in the books.

I don't have a problem with Robert wanting to joust really. The scene didn't play out too much differently than him just being drunk DURING it and saying he wanted to do it. I can understand why they did it that way, and I don't feel it took anything away from the scene. Though if I recall correctly (Been a while since I read the first book), Robert wanted to fight in the Melee, not the Joust. Which they have neglected to even state is happening (If it is) thus far, which is curious 'cause it's the best opportunity to introduce Thoros of Myr.

As for the baby scene? I don't see what point it missed. The only purpose of the scene (In the book and show) is to show hair color of baby and mother. Both were accomplished here.

I hated the arm raising bit with Loras/Hound. In the book, that was the final tilt for the Championship. I'm pretty sure they didn't even mention it in this episode, just seemed like another random joust. Loras raising the hounds hand didn't play off the same without it being the final joust. Here it just kinda seemed like a really nice gesture to the guy who possibly saved him, in the book it was pretty much Loras declaring the Hound as the champion of the Tourney. Perhaps this can be rectified with some added backtrack dialogue in the next episode.

And while we are discussing the Hound, he is currently the only character I feel that has been done incorrectly enough for it to bother me. You do NOT like him in the books especially at this stage. His character depth is added later. Your first impressions of him is he's a heartless murdering *******. They simply haven't conveyed that well enough. That aside, I *do* like the character in the series, it's just coming off as different than the books.

The entire joust was definitely a little underwhelming. I don't have a problem with the size if it like everyone seems to.. it's pretty much identical to what I imagined in terms of over all design and attendance. The lack of showing the DEPTH of the competition is upsetting though, and neglecting to even mention the Melee/Archery parts.


I enjoyed the exchange between Vary's and Littlefinger, quite the **** waving contest ( lol ).

I really liked the scene with Robert and Cersei. It added depth to both characters and did a decent job of conveying things you get from Cersei's inner monologue. I'm still a bit offput by the story of her first child's death.. completely different from the books if it holds up, but it's another thing that can be rectified by future dialogue.

As for the final scene? I LOVED IT as far as TV shows go. The death of Jory was awesome. My problems with this scene stem from earlier problems with the show so far. They've kinda made it seem like, via dialogue exchanges between Ned/Jaime, and this recent fight, that Ned would stand a chance vs Jaime in battle. While this might be true, it's not conveyed like that in the books. Jaime is built up much better in the books as being a complete and total bad***. One of the absolute best Jousters and Swordsman in Westeros, that few could match up against. I certainly never got the impression that Ned could take him on.


Ah well though. The changes aren't necessarily bad.. they are just different. Sorta like Dexter Season 1 vs Book 1. Lots of changes, both are very different but both are awesome.

Still shaping up to be one of my all time favorite shows, if not my favorite.

Maybe I missed it, but I thought the baby on the show was bald. I certainly didn't see any hair, and most definitely not a full head of it as described in the book.

And the joust/melee issue wasn't significant, but it was the setup with Cersei and her forbidding it that was missing. Without that it's just a throwaway scene without any real meaning except to say Robert likes to fight which is no secret.

EDIT: Just re-watched the brothel scene. The girl does mention the baby has "the same black hair," but the baby is indeed bald, or nearly so. So, I guess not completely useless since she uses the line, but poorly executed.

 

[Khartun]

Which they have neglected to even state is happening (If it is) thus far, which is curious 'cause it's the best opportunity to introduce Thoros of Myr.

I was hoping they would show the melee as well. I would have liked to have seen Thoros with the flaming sword.

 

[Temo]

I always thought Loras' situation in the books was unrealistic. He's supposed to be what, 17 years old? There's no way a boy that age has the kind of muscle tone you guys are talking about, unless he's heavy-set to begin with. Yet the books also describe him as lithe.

 

[Temo]

Also, I think it's time the book readers stopped comparing the show to the book. It should be judged as a show alone.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Also, I think it's time the book readers stopped comparing the show to the book. It should be judged as a show alone.

Comparing it to the book is fine, but to criticizes it is unjust for the simple fact that books contain way more content. Though in the case of Bourne Identity, criticizing it is worthy. They are two completely different stories.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

The books almost all have more information and differences than a series or movie. It is to be expected that some things will be left out, some things put in, somethings slightly changed.

Just remember in this case that the Author of the series is part of the series as well. So he has some kind of say so.

Also remember that sometimes after an Author writes a book or series of books they later decide that they should have put more emphasis on this character or that and so if it goes to film, and they have some say in it, they can change it up some.

Then you also have to think about the time frame that goes into a series vs a book and you know some things are just not going to be covered as well.

So far I have really enjoyed the series. I think I might go grab some of the books after this first season is done just to get a little more info and stories.

 

[YosemiteSam]

So far I have really enjoyed the series. I think I might go grab some of the books after this first season is done just to get a little more info and stories.

I just bought the books on Amazon.com today. I have a Kindle, but the actual books (paperback) are $20 for all four vs $35 for all in the electronic Kindle version. Book publishers should be executed for being greedy idiots. I love my Kindle, but I'm not going to pay almost twice the price just to read the books on it.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

I just bought the books on Amazon.com today. I have a Kindle, but the actual books (paperback) are $20 for all four vs $35 for all in the electronic Kindle version. Book publishers should be executed for being greedy idiots. I love my Kindle, but I'm not going to pay almost twice the price just to read the books on it.

The wife was going to get me a kindle one year for xmas and I told her not to do it.

Would just rather have the books myself.

After hearing about the price difference...I am glad I did not get one.

Pretty dumb to pay more for less in essence. I has to cost less to do them for the kindle yet they are charging more...crazy stuff.

 

[YosemiteSam]

The wife was going to get me a kindle one year for xmas and I told her not to do it.

Would just rather have the books myself.

After hearing about the price difference...I am glad I did not get one.

Pretty dumb to pay more for less in essence. I has to cost less to do them for the kindle yet they are charging more...crazy stuff.

All books aren't like that, just some. I buy a lot of books for sub $3 and even some free ones from Amazon too. To me, the Kindle is very worth it. It's the book publishers that sometimes try to screw you over. Game of Thrones is really popular right now because of the HBO series so the Publishers are being *******s and trying get as much money as they can.

 

[Concord]

I'm glad I never read the books.

Nothing to compare it too... so everything is new and fresh.

 

[theogt]

I'm glad I never read the books.

Nothing to compare it too... so everything is new and fresh.

Same here. Seems like the better route is to read the books after the series.

 

[Concord]

Anyone else want some?