Can Cowboys build a championship caliber team without a HOF caliber QB?

[Diehardblues]

What's this HOF talk and hogwash?
How about a QB who simply doesn't hand out gifts to the opposing teams with his interceptions or one that can score more than 20 pts vs the Niners?
Trying to confuse the masses again and hidden in the background is your Dak agenda.
It's broke at QB and it needs to be fixed.......
Your preaching just keep Dak at 50 + million (Yes he cares about the money LOL) and using better QB of the past who never won an SB is another example of trying to cover up the PROBLEM.
What is the PROBLEM boys and Girls?
DAKCHOKA............................The End.

No, I’m simply providing a more balanced and reasonable perspective.

We all know of your agenda. I’m on record of calling out and criticizing our QB. I’m even saying here we could use a greater QB like most teams.

The core problem here is Jethro. Our QB is just a product of that problem much like it’s been for the last 3 decades.

 

[Diehardblues]

So in the last 10 years, these QBs have won a Superbowl: Mahomes, Brady, Manning, Stafford, and Foles.

20% of the QBs that have won a SB in the decade are non-HoFers. You more or less need a HoFer. It's possible but unlikely to win otherwise.

This era has been skewed with Brady and now Mahomes. That percentage has been impacted this era because of them.

But the reality for the rest of the league is they must build around something less than that.

 

[gtb1943]

No way Romo’s career stats were enough even with a SB ring. He only started 7 full seasons .

Now if he had stayed healthy 15 seasons like Eli becoming top 10 in NFL history in passing yards and TD’s then yes, a SB ring might have been enough .

It really irks me that Eli is going to get a shot at a HOF ring when to be blunt as has been mentioned he was lucky and was tough enough to last/
Vinny Testerverde lasted longer so to me that is not a HOF reference.
Eli had a sure pick dropped the play before the Helmet Play. That play was pure luck and a player making a lifetime play in Tyree. THAT does not warrant the HOF
To me you need multiple ALL PRO and a lot of PRO Bowl years to be in the HOF. Not Romo or Dak or Eli deserve to be in the HOF

 

[PAPPYDOG]

No, I’m simply providing a more balanced and reasonable perspective.

We all know of your agenda. I’m on record of calling out and criticizing our QB. I’m even saying here we could use a greater QB like most teams.

The core problem here is Jethro. Our QB is just a product of that problem much like it’s been for the last 3 decades.

Excuses and more excuses the Jethro one is the classic fallback one you Dak lovers use when all else fails.
You sell neutrality but your blood boils with the Dak fever and you are not fooling anyone here with half a brain.
Now work on your next excuses when he opens up the season stinking up the joint weekly as not many dogs are going to be available and he has less talent to carry him.
GL

 

[Diehardblues]

It really irks me that Eli is going to get a shot at a HOF ring when to be blunt as has been mentioned he was lucky and was tough enough to last/
Vinny Testerverde lasted longer so to me that is not a HOF reference.
Eli had a sure pick dropped the play before the Helmet Play. That play was pure luck and a player making a lifetime play in Tyree. THAT does not warrant the HOF
To me you need multiple ALL PRO and a lot of PRO Bowl years to be in the HOF. Not Romo or Dak or Eli deserve to be in the HOF

I’d imagine if Eli was a Cowboy we’d be more in support of his career marks and championship wins than him playing for a gated division rival.

I wouldn’t necessarily write him into the HOF. He definitely won’t be a 1st ballot. But we must also remember “ Impact” is also a qualifier for induction.

 

[leeblair]

When we look back in history the teams which have success without a HOF caliber QB most have done so with Elite defenses . Some needed a generational type #1 defense .

And some still had a QB who was average to above average talent which they didn’t need to carry them . He was enough to move the offense, make big plays when needed and most importantly not give up the ball costing them better opportunities to win.

There’s been several throughout history. Do we think we can build that type of team ? If not then we must find a QB who can carry a less than great team. Unfortunately there’s only maybe a handful or less at anytime.

Which scenario better suits our organization?

Yes, they can win with a less than great quarterback. (See Cooper Rush)
What they cannot do is win with one that shuts down completely when it's his time to make a difference. (Dak)

 

[Diehardblues]

Excuses and more excuses the Jethro one is the classic fallback one you Dak lovers use when all else fails.
You sell neutrality but your blood boils with the Dak fever and you are not fooling anyone here with half a brain.
Now work on your next excuses when he opens up the season stinking up the joint weekly as not many dogs are going to be available and he has less talent to carry him.
GL

You want to call me a Dak lover to try and dismiss my perspective. But I’m actually called a Dak Hater by some of the Homers . My more balanced and moderate perspective can ruffle both extremes.

I’m all for replacing our QB. Does it guarantee success? No, and very possible we go into a tail spin if we can’t find another Franchise QB who’s enough to choke in the playoffs.

But I suppose you don’t really care. You’re a SB or Bust type of fan. Which is fine. But I seriously doubt Jethro is. And why ultimately he’s our biggest problem. And why we’ve suked long before Dak arrived and probably long after.

Unless of course you think we can get Mahomes to join us. Lol

 

[Diehardblues]

Yes, they can win with a less than great quarterback. (See Cooper Rush)
What they cannot do is win with one that shuts down completely when it's his time to make a difference. (Dak)

Did you believe our ownership is capable of building a championship caliber team without HOF caliber QB ?

 

[ShortRound]

Ownership can't seem to decide how to build the team, defense or offense first? Seems like we're mediocre all the way around.

 

[Diehardblues]

Ownership can't seem to decide how to build the team, defense or offense first? Seems like we're mediocre all the way around.

Yes, but we’re a little better than mediocre. We are enough to win division and make playoffs.

We just aren’t good enough to advance further. We either lose to better teams or choke to lesser teams.

We basically did same thing with Romo.

 

[gimmesix]

Yes, I’d argue Elway was a HOF caliber before winning 2 SB’s. He was no doubt one of the best of his era before he won a SB. Denver was a consistent contender going to 3 SB’s before finally winning 2.

We’re able to determine other great and HOF caliber talent and career performances without being on a championship team. Why not a QB?

Obviously some are able and why there are QB’s in HOF who weren’t on championship teams.

There are also some HOF QBs who were on championship teams but weren't that great. They are there because of their team's success. I think we judge QBs wrong. We apply a team stat (wins and losses) to them when we don't do that to any other position. The problem is that it is so ingrained to judge quarterbacks by team success that I don't know if we could do it without that. I guess we do, because like you said there are some in the hall who weren't on championship teams, but they usually have to put up some remarkable numbers to overcome the lack of titles.

 

[gimmesix]

Yes, but we’re a little better than mediocre. We are enough to win division and make playoffs.

We just aren’t good enough to advance further. We either lose to better teams or choke to lesser teams.

We basically did same thing with Romo.

Agreed. I look at it as we're always a team that is a couple of moves away from being able to contend for titles with an ownership that won't make those moves. This is why we're going on 30 years without reaching an NFC title game despite having multiple starting QBs over that period. This front office let a Hall of Fame QB down on the back end of his career. Is it really a surprise that we can't do any better with non-Hall of Famers?

 

[gimmesix]

No way Romo’s career stats were enough even with a SB ring. He only started 7 full seasons .

Now if he had stayed healthy 15 seasons like Eli becoming top 10 in NFL history in passing yards and TD’s then yes, a SB ring might have been enough .

That's fair. His numbers were great, but he probably didn't start long enough for one title to get him in.

 

[Diehardblues]

There are also some HOF QBs who were on championship teams but weren't that great. They are there because of their team's success. I think we judge QBs wrong. We apply a team stat (wins and losses) to them when we don't do that to any other position. The problem is that it is so ingrained to judge quarterbacks by team success that I don't know if we could do it without that. I guess we do, because like you said there are some in the hall who weren't on championship teams, but they usually have to put up some remarkable numbers to overcome the lack of titles.

I’d agree I’ve seen more fans this era who judge QB’s incorrectly. It’s fueled by the media which hails or attaches greatness solely by being on championship teams.

And we are able to identify greatness on other positions without championships. But QB’s we are befuddled by this stigma.

We must also remember that “ Impact” is also a qualifier for induction.

 

[DallasEast]

Ownership can't seem to decide how to build the team, defense or offense first? Seems like we're mediocre all the way around.

As usual, the front office is suspect. Any front office will strategize for improving its team. Every plan element should be examined and assessed. All elements are then presented to the decision-makers to approve and disapprove the overall next steps that the team should take.

My question is how much praise or criticism should be placed on the strategists versus the decision-makers? It is easy sometimes believing the entire front office is clueless. Is the perception necessarily the fault of the strategists and decision-makers? Or can it sometimes be true the strategists have identified the best roster/coaching combos for greater success but the decision-makers disagree with certain choices and overrule key possibilities?

Not an easy question to answer for someone on the outside looking in. It is something I have always thought about whenever I see or think about Jerry Jones and DNA Kid #1 a.k.a. the decision-makers.

 

[Diehardblues]

Exactly right but here’s the thing. Eli was the benefactor of two of the greatest defensive playoff runs in NFL history. Even more than Dilfer with the Ravens.

They were a poor to average defense during the regular season but in their two SB runs they averaged giving up 14PPG. In today’s NFL that’s insane.

Add to that he got away with some INT’s that were flat out dropped and won the NFC Championship game against the 49ers on not one but TWO fumbled punts that led to scores. Never in NFL history had that happened.

Without question the luckiest QB in the Super Bowl era.

Feel free to use this. I crush Giants fans about Eli but of course they end with “Yeah okay but we won them.” Deep down they know the truth about him.

No doubt Eli’s career stats or 2 Rings wouldn’t be enough on their own for consideration into HOF.

But when you couple him being in top 10 when he retired in passing yards and TD’s along with 2 Rings , SB MVP it presents a better argument.

Regardless I don’t think he’s a lock. And he definitely won’t be a 1st ballot induction. His greatest attribute might be his pedigree.

Being part of the 1st Family to have 2 brothers play and win SB’s and the son of a famed NFL QB might be enough at some point. That’s where “ Impact” comes into play which is also a qualifier for induction.

 

[Chasing6]

When we look back in history the teams which have success without a HOF caliber QB most have done so with Elite defenses . Some needed a generational type #1 defense .

And some still had a QB who was average to above average talent which they didn’t need to carry them . He was enough to move the offense, make big plays when needed and most importantly not give up the ball costing them better opportunities to win.

There’s been several throughout history. Do we think we can build that type of team ? If not then we must find a QB who can carry a less than great team. Unfortunately there’s only maybe a handful or less at anytime.

Which scenario better suits our organization?

So we are to believe Eli Manning is a HOF QB just because his team won 2 SB's?

Career record of 118-118, a 60% completion %,
1.5:1 TD to INT Ratio.

Reality is you need a balanced team to win the SB, regardless of how many fans think it is only the QB.

 

[buybuydandavis]

When we look back in history the teams which have success without a HOF caliber QB most have done so with Elite defenses . Some needed a generational type #1 defense .

And some still had a QB who was average to above average talent which they didn’t need to carry them . He was enough to move the offense, make big plays when needed and most importantly not give up the ball costing them better opportunities to win.

There’s been several throughout history. Do we think we can build that type of team ? If not then we must find a QB who can carry a less than great team. Unfortunately there’s only maybe a handful or less at anytime.

Which scenario better suits our organization?

Could we? We might have in 2016, but we didn't play the better QB.

This year, just too much weakness at RB and DT to think we don't just get crushed come the playoffs, if we can even make it. Even oline is iffy at LT and C. It could be big step down.

Conceivable that if they sign Dak, they get cap relief and get lucky with DTs and RBs who come available, and the draft picks on the oline pan out. But that's a lot of IF standing in the way.

 

[StarLord]

This era has been skewed with Brady and now Mahomes. That percentage has been impacted this era because of them.

But the reality for the rest of the league is they must build around something less than that.

I hear ya, but I didn't want to go too far back due to rules changes.

 

[Hadenough]

The culture that's been created by Mr Jones isn't good. Too much celebrating and too much entitlement and thinking they are great when they have done nothing.
It would take Jerry to step out of the picture and hire a top GM and hardnose coach with control. Then they need to get lucky and find a top pedigree QB that can inspire these players with his ability.