Can Cowboys build a championship caliber team without a HOF caliber QB?

[MikeT22]

Elite level head coaches make more than 15M a year

Mike McCarthy makes 4-5M per year

Let that sink in. There is no salary cap attached to coaching salaries.

Don’t ever tell me this ownership group will do whatever it takes to win. That’s an outright lie.

I will always counter that an elite QB, and especially an elite QB paired with an elite HC, could drastically alter this team's direction even in spite of Jerry.

Some few agree with Mr.
Others stick to the not as long as Jerry is GM chorus.

The issue is Jerry doesn’t want to hire an elite HC.

So yes we could win with an elite QB and HC, but we aren’t going to have that as long as Jerry is around.

 

[gtb1943]

I’d imagine if Eli was a Cowboy we’d be more in support of his career marks and championship wins than him playing for a gated division rival.

I wouldn’t necessarily write him into the HOF. He definitely won’t be a 1st ballot. But we must also remember “ Impact” is also a qualifier for induction.

OK tell me what impact Eli made. changing the game is the impact I remember being a HOF qualifier.

 

[gtb1943]

My HOF QB is a QB that had at least 3 All Pros and Seven or so Pro Bowls
had a QB rating in the top 5% during his career
had at LEAST a 2-1 TD to INT ratio

To be blunt of those QBs that have retired or will retire soon (Rodgers) I think him, Brady and Brees are worthy; Brees might be a borderline call
of Current QBs only Mahones rates it.

 

[leeblair]

Did you believe our ownership is capable of building a championship caliber team without HOF caliber QB ?

Yes.
If they can avoid shooting themselves in the foot.
The Cowboys have had very talented rosters, only to be sabotaged first by a pretender at the head coach position, and now at quarterback.

 

[plasticman]

Seems a little circular.

In many cases, SB wins were deciding factor into whether a player belonged in the Hall of Fame.

If the Cowboys had won a Super Bowl during Romo's starting career then I believe he would be in the HOF today.

 

[75boyz]

I’d agree those quantities could improve playoff success even with Jethro & Son.

But would it be enough to go all the way?

The way this organization is ran is our greatest obstacle to overcome . I believe even with those two greater quantities it would still be difficult to overcome teams of similar strength because of our culture under this ownership.

We’d need to have totally the best team overall like we did n 95. Remember we arguably had the best team in 94 too but the toxic atmosphere was too much to overcome .

I'm of the mindset that HOF pairings like of course, GOAT and Hoodie, Ben and Tomlin, Brees and Payton, Wilson and Carroll could still win IN SPITE of Jerry.
Would it be actual multiple trophies and sustained success with Jerry's meddling?
Would they (the HCs that is)even take the job in the first place?

These valid hypothetically I can't answer but I feel pretty confident in saying we would have extreme more post season success with these examples.

Dak with McFraud is not in the same universe as the aforementioned group.

Pls spare me any McFraud previous Rodgers history.

He rode Aaron's coat tails. He's an absolute clueless playoffs coach with Dallas. Period.

But again, opinions will vary.

 

[Diehardblues]

So we are to believe Eli Manning is a HOF QB just because his team won 2 SB's?

Career record of 118-118, a 60% completion %,
1.5:1 TD to INT Ratio.

Reality is you need a balanced team to win the SB, regardless of how many fans think it is only the QB.

Im not promoting Eli should be and I seriously doubt he will be a 1st ballot if he’s ever inducted but I can provide a perspective on his behalf in why he’d be considered.

One is his career stats retiring in top 10 in passing TD’s and years . Couple that with 2 SB wins and SB MVP it’s possible .

The fact he’s from the 1st family to have 2 brothers who won SB’s as well as being from a father who was a famed QB all creates a scenario where “ Impact” could be a qualifier. Not to mention a feel good story for the NFL.

 

[Diehardblues]

Seems a little circular.

In many cases, SB wins were deciding factor into whether a player belonged in the Hall of Fame.

If the Cowboys had won a Super Bowl during Romo's starting career then I believe he would be in the HOF today.

No, not really. The first inductions into the HOF, none played in a SB. Winning championships helps but it’s not a qualifier.

And it’s doubtful Romo’s shortened career and total NFL stats would be enough with only 1 SB win.

 

[Diehardblues]

I'm of the mindset that HOF pairings like of course, GOAT and Hoodie, Ben and Tomlin, Brees and Payton, Wilson and Carroll could still win IN SPITE of Jerry.
Would it be actual multiple trophies and sustained success with Jerry's meddling?
Would they (the HCs that is)even take the job in the first place?

These valid hypothetically I can't answer but I feel pretty confident in saying we would have extreme more post season success with these examples.

Dak with McFraud is not in the same universe as the aforementioned group.

Pls spare me any McFraud previous Rodgers history.

He rode Aaron's coat tails. He's an absolute clueless playoffs coach with Dallas. Period.

But again, opinions will vary.

The basis of my premise is after Jimmy left Jethro took over total football operations and wouldn’t allow a HC of that caliber to come in and take over like Jimmy did or someone like Belichick. Therefore the success would most likely be compromised.

 

[Diehardblues]

OK tell me what impact Eli made. changing the game is the impact I remember being a HOF qualifier.

The impact is being in the 1st family to have 2 brothers win SB’s . Being the son of another famed QB doesn’t hurt as well. It’s a feel good story for the NFL.

 

[Diehardblues]

Yes.
If they can avoid shooting themselves in the foot.
The Cowboys have had very talented rosters, only to be sabotaged first by a pretender at the head coach position, and now at quarterback.

And who’s allowed the Cowboys to have these pretenders? I’d argue he’s our greatest obstacle to overcome.

Even when we had the greatest team in Cowboys history he was too toxic to overcome at least one year and arguably more.

 

[Flamma]

This is a great question

Can it be done? Yes.
Can the Cowboys do it? No.

Front office isn’t good enough. Doesn’t utilize all resources to build the team to have a strong enough team to do it. They also do not invest enough into elite caliber coaching. Take alll of this into the equation and a HOF caliber qb is the only way this team will win. It’s the same reason why Romo never got it done and it’s the same reason why Dak isn’t getting it done now.

This thread should have ended right here.

 

[JBS]

This thread should have ended right here.

Thank you , sir

 

[gtb1943]

The impact is being in the 1st family to have 2 brothers win SB’s . Being the son of another famed QB doesn’t hurt as well. It’s a feel good story for the NFL.

should not mean anything but you are probably right

 

[atlantacowboy]

When we look back in history the teams which have success without a HOF caliber QB most have done so with Elite defenses . Some needed a generational type #1 defense .

And some still had a QB who was average to above average talent which they didn’t need to carry them . He was enough to move the offense, make big plays when needed and most importantly not give up the ball costing them better opportunities to win.

There’s been several throughout history. Do we think we can build that type of team ? If not then we must find a QB who can carry a less than great team. Unfortunately there’s only maybe a handful or less at anytime.

Which scenario better suits our organization?

Not the way Jerry wants to build the team. We put all the pieces around Aikman and won 3 super bowls. We have done the same for Romo and Dak. They are just not Aikman or high enough caliber QBs to put a team over the top regardless of whose around them. People like to cite stats and ignore the pass happy, soft defense era they play in. Troy got better when the stakes got higher. Romo and Dak shrink. Thats an intangible that seperates good Qbs from HOF Qbs.

The way you win with Dak is by building an elite defense and not asking him to score 40 points to win a playoff game. That means you have to skimp on WR and RB contracts. We gotta play moneyball on offense and use the cap resources on defense. lord knows we have tried everything else.

 

[Cowboysheelsreds053]

Of course they can.

We’ve been a QB away in 2007, 2014, 2016, 2021, 2022, and 2023.

We’ve had the teams those years, but we had losers playing QB.

Lol

 

[leeblair]

And who’s allowed the Cowboys to have these pretenders? I’d argue he’s our greatest obstacle to overcome.

Even when we had the greatest team in Cowboys history he was too toxic to overcome at least one year and arguably more.

Yes, Jerry's been a problem. But those men on the field have the choice as to who they want to be. They have been given the best two jobs in sports; what they did with that is on them. Romo was to blame, as well.
Two years ago the Cowboys were the best team in the NFC at the end of the season. The Eagles were already collapsing. If the Cowboys had a quarterback who could simply have done his job, they would have been in the Super Bowl. If Cooper Rush was the starter in the playoffs, Dallas would have been in the NFC Championship, at least.

 

[windward]

How can that be a serious question? When a Cowboys QB takes the team to a Super Bowl and wins, they become a Hall of Famer.

That’s pretty much it. If Dak wins a Super Bowl, he’s going to Canton regardless of what the self-styled QB gurus say here.

 

[Chasing6]

How can that be a serious question? When a Cowboys QB takes the team to a Super Bowl and wins, they become a Hall of Famer.

It is a dumb question. If Romo or Dak have SB ring, they are in the HOF.

 

[Chasing6]

When we look back in history the teams which have success without a HOF caliber QB most have done so with Elite defenses . Some needed a generational type #1 defense .

And some still had a QB who was average to above average talent which they didn’t need to carry them . He was enough to move the offense, make big plays when needed and most importantly not give up the ball costing them better opportunities to win.

There’s been several throughout history. Do we think we can build that type of team ? If not then we must find a QB who can carry a less than great team. Unfortunately there’s only maybe a handful or less at anytime.

Which scenario better suits our organization?

Maybe a better question would be can a HOF owner be removed from the HOF because of the past 7 years performance.