Can Cowboys build a championship caliber team without a HOF caliber QB?

[kskboys]

Shortened career and volume stats don't typically go together.

He was doing yearly, not me!!!!

 

[kskboys]

Can’t win squat with average front office, above average qb, and average head coach. It’s just not good enough.

And especially since our FO is far below average.

 

[KJJ]

The 5 SBs we won were with HOF QBs but they had great teams and were surrounded by other HOF players. There’s been HOF QBs that never won a SB because their teams weren’t good enough. Our last two QBs have been good enough to win a SB but the teams/defenses haven’t been good enough. If the teams were better Romo likely would have been a HOF QB. Dak would be a HOF QB if our teams were better. Both QBs have the numbers but neither have the playoff records or the rings.

 

[plasticman]

6th best shouldn't be in HOF.

I'm very critical when it comes to HOF. Only 2 QBs that are a shoe in recently are PManning and Brady. Brees is on the cusp. I prolly put Rodgers in.

Sure, began around 79. And until recently there were only one or two 5,000 yd seasons. Now they are common. QB's are throwing for more as the rules favor the O more and more.

You just listed four of the five QB's in front of him, statistically. You also claimed three should make the HOF, the 4th is close.

It's not the few points ahead in passer rating that truly separate Romo from them, is it?

What do they all have in common that Romo doesn't have?

 

[Jfconrow]

I think you’d like to draft a QB every 3 years in the mid to late rounds then trade your starter away for a 1st. I say try it, start the qb factory.

 

[zack]

A top defense is needed if you do not have a truly elite QB. Now on occasion that happens anyway; it happens. When the Rams won it with Stafford, their D was very good but certainly not generational

Agree. The Giants did it with Eli twice. One of the most mediocre QBs. The Giants defense came through in the playoffs on both runs.

 

[zack]

I only say that in response to your comment

That's hypothetical. They never have been good enough to get it done so, hell no they aren't HoF caliber.

Warren Moon is in the HOF. 3-7 in the post season.

 

[Wildcat711]

I believe if Dallas would have won a Super Bowl while Romo was QB, he'd be a Hall of Famer. He had seasons that were good enough and was one of the top passers in the league during his time here, but the team was not good enough.

I think that story is still being written for Dak. I don't expect the team to suddenly improve and get a Super Bowl victory, but we'll see where he ends up.

Reverse of that: I think it's kind of tragic that a player like Eli Manning could possibly end up in the Hall of Fame simply because his team won a couple of Super Bowls. Watching Manning over the years, his name and Hall of Fame shouldn't ever be mentioned in the same breath.

Yeah Eli might..

It's always been my opinion that too many people get in the HOF..

 

[john van brocklin]

When we look back in history the teams which have success without a HOF caliber QB most have done so with Elite defenses . Some needed a generational type #1 defense .

And some still had a QB who was average to above average talent which they didn’t need to carry them . He was enough to move the offense, make big plays when needed and most importantly not give up the ball costing them better opportunities to win.

There’s been several throughout history. Do we think we can build that type of team ? If not then we must find a QB who can carry a less than great team. Unfortunately there’s only maybe a handful or less at anytime.

Which scenario better suits our organization?

We are doomed!
We don't have a front office capable of threading the needle you described.

 

[kskboys]

You just listed four of the five QB's in front of him, statistically. You also claimed three should make the HOF, the 4th is close.

It's not the few points ahead in passer rating that truly separate Romo from them, is it?

What do they all have in common that Romo doesn't have?

Consistent great play.

 

[Blackrain]

Even teams with a HOF-caliber QBs have had great defenses or running games. Does Roger win without Doomsday? Does Troy win without the No. 1 defense and Emmitt Smith? In fact, it could be said that the reason those QBs are Hall of Famers is because the teams around them were also great.

Beyond that does Roger win without Tom Landry does Troy win without Jimmy Johnson.

And did you ever see a more poorly prepared team than what Mike McCarthy brought into the playoffs last year Jerry just refuses to go the extra mile on coaching

 

[75boyz]

Put it this way. This coach massively underachieved by winning only one SB with an in his prime Rodgers.

Massively underachieved.
Playoff coaching matters.

To expect him to coach up a trophy out of SleepNumber is ridiculous.

 

[Bobhaze]

When we look back in history the teams which have success without a HOF caliber QB most have done so with Elite defenses . Some needed a generational type #1 defense .

And some still had a QB who was average to above average talent which they didn’t need to carry them . He was enough to move the offense, make big plays when needed and most importantly not give up the ball costing them better opportunities to win.

There’s been several throughout history. Do we think we can build that type of team ? If not then we must find a QB who can carry a less than great team. Unfortunately there’s only maybe a handful or less at anytime.

Which scenario better suits our organization?

Good post Greggo.

NFL history in the Super Bowl era seemingly has two types of championship teams:

1. Teams that win with a HOF, dominant QB that can carry their team to win playoff games with some help and good coaching.
2. Teams that do not have a HOF type QB but have a front office and/or head coach that can construct a complete team with lots of help around a decent QB. Usually centering on a great defense or running game.

Our front office has three decades of evidence showing they are incapable of constructing either of those type teams in the cap era. Jerry will not only not hire a talented, empowered GM, he won’t even hire a great HC. The ONLY way we have a shot at even a divisional playoff win is having an incredible stroke of luck.

 

[plasticman]

Consistent great play.

Well.....yeah.

Sure, I could pull out a counterexample or two, but not enough to refute your statement.

Another thing you have in your favor is the fact that only three QB's have been inducted since 2000. That blew me away when I saw that. Only Bret Favre, Peyton Manning and Kurt Warner have been inducted into the Hall of Fame since Tony Romo joined the league in 2003.

However, most Super Bowl champion quarterbacks this century won their first Super Bowls when they were very young and a bunch of them are becoming eligible over the next couple of seasons.

So, you might be right. It could be that even a Super Bowl championship wouldn't be enough to put Tony Romo in. At this point, he would be considered along with Drew Brees, Ben Roethlisberger, Tom Brady, etc. If only one or two was inducted, it wouldn't be Romo even with a Super Bowl championship.

 

[JoeKing]

Warren Moon is in the HOF. 3-7 in the post season.

He was good enough.

 

[noshame]

You need consistent accuracy under pressure which we haven't had since Aikman

 

[CowboyoWales]

When we look back in history the teams which have success without a HOF caliber QB most have done so with Elite defenses . Some needed a generational type #1 defense .

And some still had a QB who was average to above average talent which they didn’t need to carry them . He was enough to move the offense, make big plays when needed and most importantly not give up the ball costing them better opportunities to win.

There’s been several throughout history. Do we think we can build that type of team ? If not then we must find a QB who can carry a less than great team. Unfortunately there’s only maybe a handful or less at anytime.

Which scenario better suits our organization?

Yea, but if you need that Elite Defense you cant afford to pay that QB elite money.......and definitely when/if that QB has such composure issues whenever he falls behind.

.....and this is the Dak problem, he needs not just an Elite Defense, he needs a Defense that never concedes (oh and whilst we're at it.....a running game, O-Line, receiving weapons).

 

[CowboyoWales]

What being a HOF caliber QB represents is when they have a great enough team they add to it not take away.

In other words we can determine they arent part of the problem.

Exactly, and Dak's composure is that integral part of the problem. The GB game highlighted this.....1st half under pressure dreadful (Pick 6 and Int giving short field 19 yards) as opposed to the second half performance, when the game was lost.....and pressure was off, he looked like Regular Season MVP Convo Dak.

This is why, even with an Elite Defense, it may not be sufficient, as from time to time we'll go behind and I dont think anyone trusts Dak in managing a comeback.

 

[Chasing6]

You need consistent accuracy under pressure which we haven't had since Aikman

Really. 60% percentage.

 

[Diehardblues]

The 5 SBs we won were with HOF QBs but they had great teams and were surrounded by other HOF players. There’s been HOF QBs that never won a SB because their teams weren’t good enough. Our last two QBs have been good enough to win a SB but the teams/defenses haven’t been good enough. If the teams were better Romo likely would have been a HOF QB. Dak would be a HOF QB if our teams were better. Both QBs have the numbers but neither have the playoff records or the rings.

Is it possible we are overvaluing our QB’s. I’m not sure I’d consider either of them HOF caliber.

I’m not shocked some Cowboy fans might lean that way but we have to be more unbiased taking off our rose colored glasses.

I just don’t see how we can place Romo in that upper echelon with the likes of Brady, Peyton, Rodgers even Rothleisburger and Brees who are also certain to be HOF.

And how can we place Dak in the upper echelon with Mahomes, even Allen and Jackson who are probably the top 3 currently.

Im not even sure we can place him up with some others like Burrows for example. Dak is good but Id be more comfortable placing him in the next level of QB’s closer to top 10 than top 5.