Can T-new move to FS, successfully?

[casmith07]

I don't see Newman as a Top 5 CB - I never saw him that way even in his prime.

What I have always seen in Newman is a guy with average size, strength, and instincts, but who has done well because of outstanding speed. Speed is his major asset, which is still important but less crucial at safety, but he is not a particularly physical player, which he can get by with at CB, but not at safety. Accordingly, his ability to help the team lies more at CB than safety.

Name 5 guys you'd take over him. I can name two - Revis and Asomugha.

Who are you going to list? Samuel? Doesn't tackle. Clements? Burned on the regular.

 

[Tobal]

why not bulk him up move him to NT so we can move Rat to DE

 

[Stautner]

Name 5 guys you'd take over him. I can name two - Revis and Asomugha.

Who are you going to list? Samuel? Doesn't tackle. Clements? Burned on the regular.

Hell, there are 64 staring CB's in the NFL - I can't spit out details on all of them. All I can tell you is that Newman has never shown any exceptional playmaking ability. He stays close enough to his man to make tackles pretty quickly after the catch, which makes him adequate, but he doesn't knock down a lot of passes or intercept many passes or shut down players or make any manner of outstanding play very often. If he is top 5 in the NFL then the entire state of the CB position is pretty weak.

 

[casmith07]

Hell, there are 64 staring CB's in the NFL - I can't spit out details on all of them. All I can tell you is that Newman has never shown any exceptional playmaking ability. He stays close enough to his man to make tackles pretty quickly after the catch, which makes him adequate, but he doesn't knock down a lot of passes or intercept many passes or shut down players or make any manner of outstanding play very often. If he is top 5 in the NFL then the entire state of the CB position is pretty weak.

I didn't ask for details on 64 starting CBs. If Newman is not a Top 5 guy, it should be easy for you to list 5 guys you'd take ahead of him.

For me:

1. Asomugha
2. Revis
3a. Bailey
3b. Newman
4. Samuel

 

[Stautner]

I didn't ask for details on 64 starting CBs. If Newman is not a Top 5 guy, it should be easy for you to list 5 guys you'd take ahead of him.

For me:

1. Asomugha
2. Revis
3a. Bailey
3b. Newman
4. Samuel

I watch the Cowboys EVERY week - I don't watch the other 31 teams every week, so I can't speak with the same knowledge of all the CB's around the NFL that I can with Newman. If you can, you seriously need to shake off the geekiness and actually go outside and play a game of football in the park.

I will tell you that I can't specifically name 5 OG's I would take ahead of Leonard Davis, but I'm comfortable saying he isn't a top 5 OG. I'm sure I could read up a little and come up with players, but it's not the same as actually watching them play each week like I do with Newman.

The fact is I've seen a lot of outstanding CB's over the years, both Cowboys and with other teams, and Newman didn't remind me of a single one. A person doesn't have to analyze game films of CB's around the league to know Newman hasn't shown any exceptional ability to make plays or shut down receivers. He has been adequate, but not outstanding. That's how I judge Newman regardless of how I would judge the other 63 starting CB's if I were to watch them as much.

But if you want stats, I have a few. 6 CB's had more INT's in 2010, and 4 more had the same. 28 CB's had more passes defended, and 3 had the same. 15 CB's had more tackles. 49 CB's had more forced fumbles. Pretty average stats, and the funny thing is he had his career best in INT's and tackles. He was more average iin those areas in the past.

 

[Dodger]

We still need a guy who can separate a receiver from the ball, blitz the QB, meet and stop a 235 pound running back who breaks through up the middle, take down a 265 pound TE who catches a pass with a full head of steam. People talk about Newman being a good tackler, well that applies to WR's in the open field, not these kinds of situations against guys this size.

It's only an opinion, and I respect the opinions of those who think Newman can convert to safety, but what I quoted here is the sort of thing I'm concerned about if they move him.

He might be okay in coverage, though, as I said before, I'm not so sure about his instincts. Has he ever played safety?

But even more importantly, I just don't seen Newman coming up to stop the Mendenhalls of the NFL as they break into the open field. I think Newman gets trucked in that scenario.

JMO...

 

[Stautner]

It's only an opinion, and I respect the opinions of those who think Newman can convert to safety, but what I quoted here is the sort of thing I'm concerned about if they move him.

He might be okay in coverage, though, as I said before, I'm not so sure about his instincts. Has he ever played safety?

But even more importantly, I just don't seen Newman coming up to stop the Mendenhalls of the NFL as they break into the open field. I think Newman gets trucked in that scenario.

JMO...

i do too. I think he steps to the side and makes an effort to grab onto Mendenahall as he goes by rather than meeting him head on. Those kinds of tackles aren't going to be very effective against strong RB's and TE's.

 

[ChooChoo73]

How do you come up with that? Sounds like you are just making random insinuations.

To me, Newman's cover skills are average right now which I am cool with if we improve pass rush. I feel a transition to safety will involve a learning curve of about 1-2 years which is the same transition Ball had to make from CB. His results are enough for me to stay away from it. Because it appears safety is such a different animal than CB, I think whatever edge Newman has with coverage over Ball is mitigated by the switch to a new position. I also have no reason to believe the Cowboys will get better at converting players to new positions. Their track record is not impressive. In short, if we need a FS, we should go get one.

 

[casmith07]

I watch the Cowboys EVERY week - I don't watch the other 31 teams every week, so I can't speak with the same knowledge of all the CB's around the NFL that I can with Newman. If you can, you seriously need to shake off the geekiness and actually go outside and play a game of football in the park.

You're talking to someone who made his playing career playing CB and FS, along with a position coach/dad that was a 4-year starting CB at Tennessee-Chattanooga in the 1970s/80s during their heyday. So try again.

I will tell you that I can't specifically name 5 OG's I would take ahead of Leonard Davis, but I'm comfortable saying he isn't a top 5 OG. I'm sure I could read up a little and come up with players, but it's not the same as actually watching them play each week like I do with Newman.

The fact is I've seen a lot of outstanding CB's over the years, both Cowboys and with other teams, and Newman didn't remind me of a single one. A person doesn't have to analyze game films of CB's around the league to know Newman hasn't shown any exceptional ability to make plays or shut down receivers. He has been adequate, but not outstanding. That's how I judge Newman regardless of how I would judge the other 63 starting CB's if I were to watch them as much.

But if you want stats, I have a few. 6 CB's had more INT's in 2010, and 4 more had the same. 28 CB's had more passes defended, and 3 had the same. 15 CB's had more tackles. 49 CB's had more forced fumbles. Pretty average stats, and the funny thing is he had his career best in INT's and tackles. He was more average iin those areas in the past.

How hard is it to name 5 then? And none of those guys I listed were based on stats. If that's the case, then Asomugha is terrible since he has the lowest number of career INTs of all of those listed.

Again, I'm not sitting here trying to challenge on any other position on the field because I'm not well-versed in those. But you're going to have to really put forth something better than your armchair GM/coach, TV eyeball test and a bunch of stats without context in order to sway a former DB from a family of DBs about the play of one of our DBs. That would be like me trying to tell Hostile I know more than him about Fullbacks and H-Backs - not going to happen.

Oh by the way, while I don't play tackle football anymore (for obvious reasons) I still play in "A-league" flag football adult leagues every year. My position? CB. So I don't just "play in the park."

 

[jobberone]

Newman is a superb athlete and very good football player. Ball is not in the same league. I don't see us getting a CB to replace Newman this year and we only had three CBs last year. So I think this is all conjecture. But there is no doubt in my mind he would be a pretty good safety.

 

[Cowboys&LakersFan]

Haha no way. I cringed everytime an opposing quarterback threw a long ball knowing we have Alan Ball in the secondary. Really don't know wanna relive that nightmare.

 

[perrykemp]

News for you -- fans for all team always thinking their good aging corner can make the switch to safety.

It rarely happens -- why?

I don't know, but it's clearly not at easy it seems.

 

[LatinMind]

Name 5 guys you'd take over him. I can name two - Revis and Asomugha.

Who are you going to list? Samuel? Doesn't tackle. Clements? Burned on the regular.

Derrell Revis
Nnamdi Asomugha
Charles Woodson
Tramon Williams
Antoine Winfield
Ike Taylor
Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie
Champ Bailey
Asante Samuel
Terrell Thmas

 

[casmith07]

News for you -- fans for all team always thinking their good aging corner can make the switch to safety.

It rarely happens -- why?

I don't know, but it's clearly not at easy it seems.

It's not easy at all. The only guy that I've seen since Rod Woodson that I feel could legitimately make that switch is Champ Bailey.

I think Newman could do it, but we'd be much better served getting a legitimate free safety and leaving him to do his thing at CB.

 

[casmith07]

Derrell Revis
Nnamdi Asomugha
Charles Woodson
Tramon Williams
Antoine Winfield
Ike Taylor
Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie
Champ Bailey
Asante Samuel
Terrell Thmas

I'll give you Charles Woodson - I'm unsure of how I forgot about him.

So that makes 3 guys I'd take over Newman - Woodson, Asomugha, and Revis. Still Top 5.

 

[Doomsday101]

One CB who has really impressed me has been Brent Grimes of Alt.

 

[casmith07]

One CB who has really impressed me has been Brent Grimes of Alt.

In watching a lot of Grimes this year living on the east coast, he is easily the most improved CB from last year. I was also highly impressed with his improvement.

Unfortunately he's not on a team with a definite #1 CB option, and he's not quite there himself, which gets him hung out to dry sometimes against better WRs...but if he can continue to get better it'll be great for the Falcons. Very impressed.

 

[Stautner]

You're talking to someone who made his playing career playing CB and FS, along with a position coach/dad that was a 4-year starting CB at Tennessee-Chattanooga in the 1970s/80s during their heyday. So try again.

How hard is it to name 5 then? And none of those guys I listed were based on stats. If that's the case, then Asomugha is terrible since he has the lowest number of career INTs of all of those listed.

Again, I'm not sitting here trying to challenge on any other position on the field because I'm not well-versed in those. But you're going to have to really put forth something better than your armchair GM/coach, TV eyeball test to sway a former DB from a family of DBs about the play of one of our DBs.

Oh by the way, while I don't play tackle football anymore (for obvious reasons) I still play in "A-league" flag football adult leagues every year. My position? CB. So I don't just "play in the park."

Excuse me if I'm not bowled over by your stated credentials.

As for being an arm chair QB - of course I am. How in the world do you think you are any different? You are watching games on TV just as I am, and my opinion about Newman is just as valid as yours.

Apparently that is the problem - you somehow think your opinion carries more weight than others. It doesn't.

Again, and if you read slowly maybe it will make sense - I am not, and cannot claim to be, in the best position to rate CB's around the league. I don't watch enough CB's around the league regularly enough to make that kind of ranking, and therefore I cannot say exactly where Newman deserves to be ranked. What I am saying is that all I can claim is that I have a good feel for those players that I do watch regularly, and I do watch Newman every week, and Newman has never shown anything to me that jumps out as being special other than an ability to run. He has always had "adequate" written all over him. I don't need an imaginary ranking for that, and even if it is true that the state of the CB position in the NFL is so weak that Newman would be worthy of being in the top 5, all that tells me is that the position is in sad shape. I would hope there are a few more playmakers and difference makers running around, because Newman is not one. Heck, in 2009 he wasn't even the best CB on the Cowboys, and I'm not even sure he was better than our Nickle CB in 2010.

If it makes you feel better though, I will defer to your vast knowledge of the CB's around the NFL and call Newman top 5. That still doesn't change how I feel about him though. regardless of where you or anyone else wants to rank him I still see him as an adequate, but not outstanding CB.

 

[casmith07]

You're not excused. Until you have had first-hand experience understanding and learning and playing the position, I can't take your opinion with anything more than a grain of salt.

So if you don't mind, make sure it's sea salt. I hear it's better for you.

 

[perrykemp]

It's not easy at all. The only guy that I've seen since Rod Woodson that I feel could legitimately make that switch is Champ Bailey.

I think Newman could do it, but we'd be much better served getting a legitimate free safety and leaving him to do his thing at CB.

Yes, Rod Woodson clearly comes to mind. Ronnie Lot made the switch also. You can see the Packers starting to do it now with Charles Woodson.

What is the common thread with those guys --- two HOFers and a likely future HOFer in Woodson. In other words they weren't just "good" corners, they were great corners before the made the switch.

Finally, all three of those guys were unusually physical for CBs... heck, Charles Woodson had just under 100 tackles this year for example.

TNew has never been a bad tackler or anything like that, but I'm not sure he's in the class of these other guys who made the transition to Safety from CB.