News: Can Tony Romo Ever Get The Respect His Play Demands?

Idgit

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You'd think he could wrap his brain around the team concept, but it's something that's always been hard for him...and several others around here...to grasp.

You'd think. Not to pick on him directly, but, man, that's probably one of my biggest pet peeves about the QB discussions. I don't get how fans conflate QB play with the rest of the team. Net out most of the execution responsibility on the rushing plays. Net out all the ST plays. Net our the entire defensive half of the football game. Net out the effect of coaches and of play calling. The QB is obviously the single most important player on the field, but he's still a significant minority of the reasons why a team wins or loses. Yes, it's hard to win it all without one, but, no, having one does not mean you're necessarily going to win it all.
 

5Stars

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You'd think. Not to pick on him directly, but, man, that's probably one of my biggest pet peeves about the QB discussions. I don't get how fans conflate QB play with the rest of the team. Net out most of the execution responsibility on the rushing plays. Net out all the ST plays. Net our the entire defensive half of the football game. Net out the effect of coaches and of play calling. The QB is obviously the single most important player on the field, but he's still a significant minority of the reasons why a team wins or loses. Yes, it's hard to win it all without one, but, no, having one does not mean you're necessarily going to win it all.


I think some do it just because they can get away with it. Kinda like...."I must be right...please, I know I'm right now would you FANS stop arguing with me"!

lol
 

Idgit

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I think some do it just because they can get away with it. Kinda like...."I must be right...please, I know I'm right now would you FANS stop arguing with me"!

lol

I think there's something to that. It's a dodge for not liking a coach or a QB. Those are the two easiest positions to blame, whether it makes any sense or not.
 

5Stars

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I think there's something to that. It's a dodge for not liking a coach or a QB. Those are the two easiest positions to blame, whether it makes any sense or not.

Not really. A good poster with bad intentions could mask themselves as Cowboy fans and just hate the Cowboys, period. Nuff said.

(stupid cowboy fans)
 

percyhoward

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There was a guy who tried to get around the problem of cross-era comparisons with passer rating by comparing a player's rating with the average passer rating in the NFL over his career. It's a good idea in theory, but look what happened.

top-20-21.jpg


When the author got his idea to do this, he wasn't expecting it to put Bob Berry above Dan Marino. He got this strange result because he counted every one of Marino's 16 qualifying seasons. When you think about it, that doesn't make sense. Marino could have played just his first 8 years and he'd still have been worthy of the Hall of Fame, because he'd have been the best (or at least 2nd-best) QB during that time. By counting all 16 seasons, all you do is bring him down artificially. The author's first mistake was to punish players for their longevity.

His second mistake was to reward players who had no longevity. Bob Berry couldn't stay healthy, and as a result had only three seasons with enough attempts to qualify in passer rating. He only played an average of 5 games per season over an 11-year career. The author could have solved both problems by setting standards for which seasons to count/leave out and which players to count/leave out. To filter out guys like Berry, he could have put a minimum on the number of qualifying seasons (say, 6). To put Marino where everybody expects him, he could have looked at just his best seasons. Let's say, his 8 best seasons.

Those two tweaks would make for an interesting list, I think.
 

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I feel like in this day and age, unless you win a Super Bowl you will never be considered a true elite QB. Look at Eli for example, he's won two MIRACULOUS super bowls on the back of his defense and some extremely fortunate circumstances (the Tyree catch, Welker dropping two passes that he would normally catch). Eli is considered a top tier QB when he's a game manager (i.e. Trent Dilfer). The days of the Marinos who dominated the QB position for years but never wont a super bowl and STILL getting elected to the HoF are gone I believe. Do I believe the Cowboys will win a SB with Romo at QB, hell yes, maybe even multiple with a little luck. But, i honestly believe that even if Romo wins a SB he will still have his critics and naysayers. Just comes with being the QB of the Cowboys.

Also, I refer back to the saying "you never get a second chance at a first impression". His first impression in this league was a gunslinger who fumbles snaps on FGs and throws INTs in the 4th quarter of crucial games. That's a hard association to break especially in the public eye. I hear it from Commanders fans and Eagles fans all the time (I live in Virginia), "I'll just wait for Tony Homo to choke it away like he usually does." or "Ya'll's problem is Romo, once you replace him you guys will be better." This just goes to show how much people listen to the media and take what they say as their own opinion. I've said for years that Romo was not the problem and while the statistics back me up, he has not won in the court of public opinion and won't win until he throws a clutch TD in the super bowl for the win or something drastic like Elway's performance in the late 90's.

Great post... completely on point, especially your examples of what fans of other teams say about Romo. It's so predictable that I can almost finish their sentences when they spout that garbage. As soon as I hear comments like that about Romo, I lose respect for said person in regards to football knowledge.

Even if Romo wins a SB, I know that I will still get comments like "Eli still has 2 Super Bowl wins/MVPs, so Romo is inferior."
 

TwentyOne

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Well, it was just those comments that were mind-boggling. The rest was not.

  • You think Romo's not in the same class as Eli? Come in!
  • You not don't think Romo--of all people-- is all in with the team emotionally and physicall...in fact you think the exact opposite? wth?
  • And finally, you are "through with Romo as a player"...that being the Romo who led the league in passer rating in both the regular season and playoffs last year and powered through it, most likely, in pretty bad pain in doing so.

Sorry, but those comments were specifically worth taking specific note of.

See the problem IMO is, people get so emotional about those things. Someone posts that a QB of our rival team is better and fans dont seem to have the ability to look at it objectivly. It's like someone of their family was attacked. I will never understand that. If Eli would have been our QB (Dallas QB) and Romo played for the Giants (for example) would you or any other picked Romo over Eli ?

Yes i do think Eli is a better QB then Romo. He has more talent and has shown it on the field. He did not play well the last seasons but still i think overall he is the better QB. And he won 2 SBs - AND, slow down a bit please - i know what you want to say. The argument here is not the 2 rings but the ability to play in important games and win them. Hes been there and proved he can handle it. Beeing able to play good when it counts was always a knock on Romo. And when i look at his last two playoff games he did not change my oppinion. That does not mean he played bad but he wasnt that player i expect when i envision a top 5 or great QB. Romo has all the stats but to me he simply does not have "it".

I am not sure Eli is in the top 5 but that is not the question here. The question was (or the topic): Romo does not get the respect he deserves. Not if Eli is great or better then Romo. I put 7 Qbs into my list and you mentioned just one. So that means you also think that with the other 6 i am right ? So in fact that means you agree with me: Yes, i do think Romo gets the repect he deserves and he gets the critics he deserves as well.

I do not think my oppinion is mind-boggling. In fact there alot of others out there that think the same way (sports writers, well known ones and not so ones, fans etc...). So its nothing a informed reader wouldnt have read already.
And i do think that your statement is a bit offensive. But thats the way the internet these days works. People are anonymous so they don't feel the need to argue they just get emotionally and disparage.

Yes and i do think Romo is NOT a warrior and he is NOT preparing the right way for the season and/or games. But i do think he is emotionally all in with the team. I never said the opposite.

But let me say this also: I dont know Romo and never met him. All i can do is judge from what i read, and what i see (interviews etc...). And from that i got that oppinion. Maybe i would judge him completly different if i played with him, if i only knew him as a person. But i dont, so i build my oppinion from the things that i have.

Lets give you one explame why i think of Romo the way i do:

I watched the Niners game. And Romo looked very bad. He wasnt even able to move. The FO and Romo explained it that Romo hadnt the time to prepare right because he was hurt and they were cautious with his training reps and were holding him back. They even took the blame on their shoulders the way the explained it. And after that game i believed in that explanation. The problems i got with the explanation was when i saw what happened the following 2 weeks.

How long was it after the second back surgery ? 4 or 5 months ? I cant remember anymore. But the exact number of months doesnt matter. Point is it was months and a long time. And suddenly within 1 1/2 weeks after that game (in game 3) Romo played like he never was hurt.

Do you really believe he wasnt able to train (or just sporadically) for about 5 months because he was still hurt, went to his first game were he couldnt even walk upright and then only 1 1/2 weeks later he played like he never got injured ? I call that a miracle. But honestly i dont believe in such things.

Dont missunderstand me. I do think Romo played hurt. And all props to him for playing thru the pain. But i dont think he looked that bad because of the pain. He looked that bad because he did simply not pepare for the season. He did not do everything that was in need to be in shape for the first game. Had he, he wouldnt have looked that bad. I dont believe it was his injury that was holding him back in that game and i dont think it was the injury that hindered him to prepare the right way. It was simply his laziness. And i do think he is lazy when it comes to do the right work in preparing for the season. And i dont believe the FO when they say they were overcautios with his camp-reps. I do know a bit about life and how business works. You dont destroy your QB (or a leader of your franchise) in public. Even if he does not do the right things. They invested alot of money in that player. You dont destroy your investement. Especially when its that kind of a risky one.

Romo likes to talk alot about the things he works at. And thats cool because people like to hear such things and - over the years - Romo is someone who learned to say the right things. But he regulary starts the season overweight and out of shape. And that has nothing to do with his two back surgeries. That is a habit he has cherished over his whole career. When he was younger he was able to get away with it but as he got older it shows.

I do think Romo is not the workout warrior he should be to get the best out of him. He is someone who plays thru pain. But over the years i followed him i also noticed that Romo is someone who likes the spotlight alot. And therefore i dont believe in every grimace he shows when he is in that big pain we all should think he is in. I fell in love with Romo when Parcells brought him in for "the statue" in that New York game. And i was in love with him for a long time. But Romo changed as a person and i did not like that change. Maybe that change is something he needed to "survive" being the DC QB. IDK. I just know he left alot of sympathy on the way. Now to me he is someone who talks alot. Who puts himself and everybody around him in much brighter light then it actually is true. I do think that characteristic he already had in him and he developed it over the years. He needs attention. And is doing more for it then for the success of himself or the team.

Playing thru pain is valued by fans in a sport that lives by its archaic values. And it has something to it i admit. But in Romos case i cant deny the feeling that Romos knows about those things and uses it for his advantage. So i dont believe every pain hes trying to convince me of he is in.

The way Romo prepares is not the best for the team. Romo is a player that gets hurt easily. He plays thru the pain and injury afterwards but if he had prepared the right way i do think he could have avoided some of those. And thats more in the interest of the team.

Yes i dont question that he is emotionally very envolved. Romo is a fighter and he wants to win. He is not "ill" and gets our of hand with his emotions like Dez Bryant but i do think he wants to win the same way Dez wants to. But when it comes to put in the work for him its more about emotion than actually doing something to get better. Hes playing basketball and golf in the offseason. Instead of visting the gym and doing track & field stuff which would do him much better - and so for the team.

One last thing to think about before i have to finish: Ronaldo McClain does not like to train. He gets his shares of injuries to avoid camp etc. Still people get mad about him but they love Romo. For me thats ok. I can understand that people judge others differently because they like the one and dont like the other so much. Still i think its worth to be open minded about those things. Its important to be so you can be more consious about reality. To me Romo & McClain are the same type of players regarding preperation.
 
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TwentyOne

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This was a long, thoughtful post. But you've got enough gotchas in there that people are going to hit and then just say 'holy cow, there's no point.' Saying Romo is not in the class of Eli Manning, for example. There's just no point discussing that. That fact that you don't think he's a warrior on the field? It just screams that you're a fan who's unwilling to give the guy props in that regard for whatever reason. There's no convincing somebody who's going to overlook a guy playing with a punctured lung or a broken back.

He's also not in the top 5 for QB pay, last year, or this coming year.

For my part, I think he's one of the best QBs in the league, and has been for some time. I think, with better defensive play, he'd be rightly mentioned in that very top tier of players at his position. But that doesn't matter. He's good enough to win championships with. While our defense is not. That's all I care about right now.

Most of the points i tried to explain to another poster so i just post the link for you. I hope thats ok. Can Tony Romo Ever Get The Respect His Play Demands?

I may understand the word "gotcha" not in the way it is meant. English is not my native language. I understand it that way, it means: "i got you" - "i tried to search for errors and found one".

Its that way i feel when i read the answers to my post. People dont try to understand what i say or try to understand my point of view. They just try to find an error and then jump on it because there is something that does not fit their emotions. Problem is every post has an oppinion and oppions are always subjective. So every oppinion is erronous in itself (in a kind of way). Readers are the one who are putting "gotchas" in it because it fits the way the "want" to read things.

Its hard to have a good discussion that way. But anyway...

Its debatable if he is one of the bests QBs in the league. Who'd you put before him ? Because if i look at his stats i'd come to the same conclusion. But then i look at the others that play the position and i find it hard to put him in the top 5. Just because i watch what other QBs are able to do.

Romo played with a punctured lunge, but its not like he played 5 games with it. And he never had a "broken" back. Broken sounds great because it fits the picture of a hard nosed warrior. But in fact he had herniated disc which can be painfull but does not have to. A broken back in fact is a broken spine which Romo never had (not even in 2014 to which i get to a little bit further down). May father for example really broke his back and walked 1 day without alot of pain before going to hospital (which was very stupid by him i have to admit). He also had a herniated disc and went thru rehab without pain shots. My sister had one too and had the same treatement.

There are people who are painprone and others that are not. In fact i think Romo is one of the firsts.

Romo also had a cyst removed that was near his spine. But thats nothing that should have hindered him to fully participate in the offseason workout. Still everybody says he is coming off of 2 major back surgeries. Which again supports the warrior legend but in fact is simply not true. A cyst removal is not a major back surgery. In fact its a simple intervention. Its just tissue that has to heal. Which in normal takes about 6 weeks. But he missed most offseason workouts because of it. And his herinated disc was done endoscopically which is a very small intervention. Payton Manning was coming off of two of those were his discs also got fused together and still he was in shape when he started the season. Fusing two neck discs together is a major intervention.

Romo last season again did not break his back. He had a not complex transverse process fracture. There are other players who played with that kind of an injury.

I can understand people like to call him a warrior. Who does not like to have a warrior playing for his beloved team. I still do think Romo is a good QB and i am very happy that we have a good QB. Still that does not change my oppinion about the player and person Tony Romo. And Romo is more then just a good QB. He has his "dark sides" and for me and those overweight his good ones. I am just fed up with him.
 
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KJJ

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They aren't a measurement of wins or losses. They're a measurement of the effectiveness of the QB play. There are factors that go into wins and losses that have nothing to do with how Tony Romo plays. A fact that percy has also demonstrated on a number of occasions.

I'm not arguing against public perception here. I agree with you that perception is sometimes a function of things that have nothing to do with the quality of play from the QB. I'm just saying that perception is just wrong. Just like people thinking Big Bang Theory is funny or that Nickelback was any good.

I don't really care all the much about the Warren Moon side discussion. I have no issues with him being in the HoF.

The biggest measuring stick of the effectiveness of a QB is playoff appearances, playoff wins and championships. That's the barometer that has Brady battling Montana as the greatest QB in NFL history. Stats factor into wins and losses but it's the W and the L in the W/L column primarily in the playoffs that most QB's are judged by unless they're setting NFL all-time passing records like Marino or Fouts or finish in the top 5 all-time passing yards like Warren Moon when he retired.

The passer rating stat has been used as crutch for years with Romo because it's the one stat that puts him ahead of most of the all-time greats. No one ever talked about passer ratings with Staubach or Aikman because they had championships. Aikman with his modest numbers proves how powerful the all mighty Lombardi trophy is by making him a first ballot Hall of Fame QB despite his average stats. Everything Aikman became as a player is tied to his 3 SB rings.
 

jobberone

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Modern Era: Quarterbacks (23)

Troy Aikman 1989-2000
George Blanda (Also PK) 1949-1958, 1960-1975
Terry Bradshaw 1970-1983
Len Dawson 1957-1975
John Elway 1983-1998
Dan Fouts 1973-1987
Otto Graham 1946-1955
Bob Griese 1967-1980
Sonny Jurgensen 1957-1974
Jim Kelly 1986-1996
Bobby Layne 1948-1962
Dan Marino 1983-1999
Joe Montana 1979-1994
Warren Moon 1984-2000
Joe Namath 1965-1977
Bart Starr 1956-1971
Roger Staubach 1969-1979
Fran Tarkenton 1961-1978
Y.A. Tittle 1948-1964
Johnny Unitas 1956-1973
Norm Van Brocklin 1949-1960
Bob Waterfield 1945-1952
Steve Young 1985-1999

As you can see 25+% of HOF QBs never won a NFL Championship. Some won theirs before the merger and some before what I'd consider the modern era. Some were AFL Championships.

So winning championships is not necessary to get inducted into the HOF. Plus it is a team game with the QB essential but not the only ingredient.

Some stick stubbornly to their agenda even when the facts speak differently.
 

Rockport

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Modern Era: Quarterbacks (23)

Troy Aikman 1989-2000
George Blanda (Also PK) 1949-1958, 1960-1975
Terry Bradshaw 1970-1983
Len Dawson 1957-1975
John Elway 1983-1998
Dan Fouts 1973-1987
Otto Graham 1946-1955
Bob Griese 1967-1980
Sonny Jurgensen 1957-1974
Jim Kelly 1986-1996
Bobby Layne 1948-1962
Dan Marino 1983-1999
Joe Montana 1979-1994
Warren Moon 1984-2000
Joe Namath 1965-1977
Bart Starr 1956-1971
Roger Staubach 1969-1979
Fran Tarkenton 1961-1978
Y.A. Tittle 1948-1964
Johnny Unitas 1956-1973
Norm Van Brocklin 1949-1960
Bob Waterfield 1945-1952
Steve Young 1985-1999

As you can see 25+% of HOF QBs never won a NFL Championship. Some won theirs before the merger and some before what I'd consider the modern era. Some were AFL Championships.

So winning championships is not necessary to get inducted into the HOF. Plus it is a team game with the QB essential but not the only ingredient.

Some stick stubbornly to their agenda even when the facts speak differently.
 

guag

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Football is a team game now? Since when? I always thought it was just QB vs. QB. What are these other "positions" you speak of? *shrugs*

I mean, since the most important measurement of a QB is the number of playoff games that he has won, then obviously he must be the only player on the field on offense. Or maybe, the QB plays with a team during the regular season, but during the playoffs it's just QB vs. QB? Yeah, maybe that's it. Since Super Bowls are won and lost only by the QB.

Mark Rypien, Trent Dilfer, both better than Romo of course.
 
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rpntex

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I watched as much football back then as I do now and don't recall any talk about passer ratings until the 90s. The Internet coming along enabled fans to look up stats in detail and we started seeing passer rating stats. That's when I first recall seeing them.

Then your recall skills are lacking. Passer rating was a published stat in newspapers as far back as the 1972 season. It didn't garner the attention of things like rushing yards for a RB, the number of receptions for a WR, or passing yards for a QB, but it was there for those of us with an interest in knowing. I used to check Roger Staubach's rating "ranking" (every Friday morning in my hometown paper) beginning with the 1972 season. Roger had led the league in passer rating in 1971, which caught my attention. Of course, Roger won it again in '73, '78, & '79 - setting what was then a single season record for the stat in his final year. I can promise you that most Cowboy fans were very aware of that area of QB measure during that era. They probably didn't understand it - most still don't- but they were definitely aware of it.
 
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Jstopper

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See the problem IMO is, people get so emotional about those things. Someone posts that a QB of our rival team is better and fans dont seem to have the ability to look at it objectivly. It's like someone of their family was attacked. I will never understand that. If Eli would have been our QB (Dallas QB) and Romo played for the Giants (for example) would you or any other picked Romo over Eli ?

Yes i do think Eli is a better QB then Romo. He has more talent and has shown it on the field. He did not play well the last seasons but still i think overall he is the better QB. And he won 2 SBs - AND, slow down a bit please - i know what you want to say. The argument here is not the 2 rings but the ability to play in important games and win them. Hes been there and proved he can handle it. Beeing able to play good when it counts was always a knock on Romo. And when i look at his last two playoff games he did not change my oppinion. That does not mean he played bad but he wasnt that player i expect when i envision a top 5 or great QB. Romo has all the stats but to me he simply does not have "it".

I am not sure Eli is in the top 5 but that is not the question here. The question was (or the topic): Romo does not get the respect he deserves. Not if Eli is great or better then Romo. I put 7 Qbs into my list and you mentioned just one. So that means you also think that with the other 6 i am right ? So in fact that means you agree with me: Yes, i do think Romo gets the repect he deserves and he gets the critics he deserves as well.

I do not think my oppinion is mind-boggling. In fact there alot of others out there that think the same way (sports writers, well known ones and not so ones, fans etc...). So its nothing a informed reader wouldnt have read already.
And i do think that your statement is a bit offensive. But thats the way the internet these days works. People are anonymous so they don't feel the need to argue they just get emotionally and disparage.

Yes and i do think Romo is NOT a warrior and he is NOT preparing the right way for the season and/or games. But i do think he is emotionally all in with the team. I never said the opposite.

But let me say this also: I dont know Romo and never met him. All i can do is judge from what i read, and what i see (interviews etc...). And from that i got that oppinion. Maybe i would judge him completly different if i played with him, if i only knew him as a person. But i dont, so i build my oppinion from the things that i have.

Lets give you one explame why i think of Romo the way i do:

I watched the Niners game. And Romo looked very bad. He wasnt even able to move. The FO and Romo explained it that Romo hadnt the time to prepare right because he was hurt and they were cautious with his training reps and were holding him back. They even took the blame on their shoulders the way the explained it. And after that game i believed in that explanation. The problems i got with the explanation was when i saw what happened the following 2 weeks.

How long was it after the second back surgery ? 4 or 5 months ? I cant remember anymore. But the exact number of months doesnt matter. Point is it was months and a long time. And suddenly within 1 1/2 weeks after that game (in game 3) Romo played like he never was hurt.

Do you really believe he wasnt able to train (or just sporadically) for about 5 months because he was still hurt, went to his first game were he couldnt even walk upright and then only 1 1/2 weeks later he played like he never got injured ? I call that a miracle. But honestly i dont believe in such things.

Dont missunderstand me. I do think Romo played hurt. And all props to him for playing thru the pain. But i dont think he looked that bad because of the pain. He looked that bad because he did simply not pepare for the season. He did not do everything that was in need to be in shape for the first game. Had he, he wouldnt have looked that bad. I dont believe it was his injury that was holding him back in that game and i dont think it was the injury that hindered him to prepare the right way. It was simply his laziness. And i do think he is lazy when it comes to do the right work in preparing for the season. And i dont believe the FO when they say they were overcautios with his camp-reps. I do know a bit about life and how business works. You dont destroy your QB (or a leader of your franchise) in public. Even if he does not do the right things. They invested alot of money in that player. You dont destroy your investement. Especially when its that kind of a risky one.

Romo likes to talk alot about the things he works at. And thats cool because people like to hear such things and - over the years - Romo is someone who learned to say the right things. But he regulary starts the season overweight and out of shape. And that has nothing to do with his two back surgeries. That is a habit he has cherished over his whole career. When he was younger he was able to get away with it but as he got older it shows.

I do think Romo is not the workout warrior he should be to get the best out of him. He is someone who plays thru pain. But over the years i followed him i also noticed that Romo is someone who likes the spotlight alot. And therefore i dont believe in every grimace he shows when he is in that big pain we all should think he is in. I fell in love with Romo when Parcells brought him in for "the statue" in that New York game. And i was in love with him for a long time. But Romo changed as a person and i did not like that change. Maybe that change is something he needed to "survive" being the DC QB. IDK. I just know he left alot of sympathy on the way. Now to me he is someone who talks alot. Who puts himself and everybody around him in much brighter light then it actually is true. I do think that characteristic he already had in him and he developed it over the years. He needs attention. And is doing more for it then for the success of himself or the team.

Playing thru pain is valued by fans in a sport that lives by its archaic values. And it has something to it i admit. But in Romos case i cant deny the feeling that Romos knows about those things and uses it for his advantage. So i dont believe every pain hes trying to convince me of he is in.

The way Romo prepares is not the best for the team. Romo is a player that gets hurt easily. He plays thru the pain and injury afterwards but if he had prepared the right way i do think he could have avoided some of those. And thats more in the interest of the team.

Yes i dont question that he is emotionally very envolved. Romo is a fighter and he wants to win. He is not "ill" and gets our of hand with his emotions like Dez Bryant but i do think he wants to win the same way Dez wants to. But when it comes to put in the work for him its more about emotion than actually doing something to get better. Hes playing basketball and golf in the offseason. Instead of visting the gym and doing track & field stuff which would do him much better - and so for the team.

One last thing to think about before i have to finish: Ronaldo McClain does not like to train. He gets his shares of injuries to avoid camp etc. Still people get mad about him but they love Romo. For me thats ok. I can understand that people judge others differently because they like the one and dont like the other so much. Still i think its worth to be open minded about those things. Its important to be so you can be more consious about reality. To me Romo & McClain are the same type of players regarding preperation.

Wow just wow. I can't even.....
 

Idgit

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The biggest measuring stick of the effectiveness of a QB is playoff appearances, playoff wins and championships. That's the barometer that has Brady battling Montana as the greatest QB in NFL history. Stats factor into wins and losses but it's the W and the L in the W/L column primarily in the playoffs that most QB's are judged by unless they're setting NFL all-time passing records like Marino or Fouts or finish in the top 5 all-time passing yards like Warren Moon when he retired.

The passer rating stat has been used as crutch for years with Romo because it's the one stat that puts him ahead of most of the all-time greats. No one ever talked about passer ratings with Staubach or Aikman because they had championships. Aikman with his modest numbers proves how powerful the all mighty Lombardi trophy is by making him a first ballot Hall of Fame QB despite his average stats. Everything Aikman became as a player is tied to his 3 SB rings.

Yeah, no.

Playoff wins and Superbowls are obviously team accomplishments. Tony Romo is not a team.
 

Idgit

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Most of the points i tried to explain to another poster so i just post the link for you. I hope thats ok. Can Tony Romo Ever Get The Respect His Play Demands?

I may understand the word "gotcha" not in the way it is meant. English is not my native language. I understand it that way, it means: "i got you" - "i tried to search for errors and found one".

Its that way i feel when i read the answers to my post. People dont try to understand what i say or try to understand my point of view. They just try to find an error and then jump on it because there is something that does not fit their emotions. Problem is every post has an oppinion and oppions are always subjective. So every oppinion is erronous in itself (in a kind of way). Readers are the one who are putting "gotchas" in it because it fits the way the "want" to read things.

Its hard to have a good discussion that way. But anyway...

Its debatable if he is one of the bests QBs in the league. Who'd you put before him ? Because if i look at his stats i'd come to the same conclusion. But then i look at the others that play the position and i find it hard to put him in the top 5. Just because i watch what other QBs are able to do.

Romo played with a punctured lunge, but its not like he played 5 games with it. And he never had a "broken" back. Broken sounds great because it fits the picture of a hard nosed warrior. But in fact he had herniated disc which can be painfull but does not have to. A broken back in fact is a broken spine which Romo never had (not even in 2014 to which i get to a little bit further down). May father for example really broke his back and walked 1 day without alot of pain before going to hospital (which was very stupid by him i have to admit). He also had a herniated disc and went thru rehab without pain shots. My sister had one too and had the same treatement.

There are people who are painprone and others that are not. In fact i think Romo is one of the firsts.

Romo also had a cyst removed that was near his spine. But thats nothing that should have hindered him to fully participate in the offseason workout. Still everybody says he is coming off of 2 major back surgeries. Which again supports the warrior legend but in fact is simply not true. A cyst removal is not a major back surgery. In fact its a simple intervention. Its just tissue that has to heal. Which in normal takes about 6 weeks. But he missed most offseason workouts because of it. And his herinated disc was done endoscopically which is a very small intervention. Payton Manning was coming off of two of those were his discs also got fused together and still he was in shape when he started the season. Fusing two neck discs together is a major intervention.

Romo last season again did not break his back. He had a not complex transverse process fracture. There are other players who played with that kind of an injury.

I can understand people like to call him a warrior. Who does not like to have a warrior playing for his beloved team. I still do think Romo is a good QB and i am very happy that we have a good QB. Still that does not change my oppinion about the player and person Tony Romo. And Romo is more then just a good QB. He has his "dark sides" and for me and those overweight his good ones. I am just fed up with him.

Reading through the posts in thread, I don't think it's the case that fans are reacting emotionally so much as they simply don't agree with your assessment of Tony Romo's play in many instances. The Eli comparison, for one, is difficult to make with a straight face if you're talking about QB play and not the accomplishments of their respective teams. On a purely rational basis, Romo's the more effective passer overall and he has been for a long time.

As to my broken back, comment, I was referring to the transverse fracture. Your own linked definition of which says:

"A fracture of a bone is the same as a break in the bone. A fracture of a transverse process is a break of a part of one of the bones in the spine."

Other players have played with it. I'd consider all of them warriors for doing so. I'm not sure it matters how many games Romo played with the punctured lung because, well, 'punctured' and 'lung.' And, seriously, if you are aware of the fact that the guy played with a punctured lung and a fracture in two bones of his back and still think that people consider him a warrior because it makes them feel good, there's no hope we'll ever see it on the same page. I'd classify that degree of intransigence as a willful intention to dislike the player. That's your prerogative. If you're fed up with him and want to see 'dark sides' that outweigh is play on the field, you're free to do so. I haven't worried about the starting QB position in Dallas for years, and I"m not worried this year, either. That's not emotion. I have areas of the team I'm concerned about legitimately, QB just isn't one of them.
 

DFWJC

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See the problem IMO is, people get so emotional about those things. Someone posts that a QB of our rival team is better and fans dont seem to have the ability to look at it objectivly. It's like someone of their family was attacked. I will never understand that. If Eli would have been our QB (Dallas QB) and Romo played for the Giants (for example) would you or any other picked Romo over Eli ?

Yes i do think Eli is a better QB then Romo. He has more talent and has shown it on the field. He did not play well the last seasons but still i think overall he is the better QB. And he won 2 SBs - AND, slow down a bit please - i know what you want to say. The argument here is not the 2 rings but the ability to play in important games and win them. Hes been there and proved he can handle it. Beeing able to play good when it counts was always a knock on Romo. And when i look at his last two playoff games he did not change my oppinion. That does not mean he played bad but he wasnt that player i expect when i envision a top 5 or great QB. Romo has all the stats but to me he simply does not have "it".

I am not sure Eli is in the top 5 but that is not the question here. The question was (or the topic): Romo does not get the respect he deserves. Not if Eli is great or better then Romo. I put 7 Qbs into my list and you mentioned just one. So that means you also think that with the other 6 i am right ? So in fact that means you agree with me: Yes, i do think Romo gets the repect he deserves and he gets the critics he deserves as well.

I do not think my oppinion is mind-boggling. In fact there alot of others out there that think the same way (sports writers, well known ones and not so ones, fans etc...). So its nothing a informed reader wouldnt have read already.
And i do think that your statement is a bit offensive. But thats the way the internet these days works. People are anonymous so they don't feel the need to argue they just get emotionally and disparage.

Yes and i do think Romo is NOT a warrior and he is NOT preparing the right way for the season and/or games. But i do think he is emotionally all in with the team. I never said the opposite.

But let me say this also: I dont know Romo and never met him. All i can do is judge from what i read, and what i see (interviews etc...). And from that i got that oppinion. Maybe i would judge him completly different if i played with him, if i only knew him as a person. But i dont, so i build my oppinion from the things that i have.

Lets give you one explame why i think of Romo the way i do:

I watched the Niners game. And Romo looked very bad. He wasnt even able to move. The FO and Romo explained it that Romo hadnt the time to prepare right because he was hurt and they were cautious with his training reps and were holding him back. They even took the blame on their shoulders the way the explained it. And after that game i believed in that explanation. The problems i got with the explanation was when i saw what happened the following 2 weeks.

How long was it after the second back surgery ? 4 or 5 months ? I cant remember anymore. But the exact number of months doesnt matter. Point is it was months and a long time. And suddenly within 1 1/2 weeks after that game (in game 3) Romo played like he never was hurt.

Do you really believe he wasnt able to train (or just sporadically) for about 5 months because he was still hurt, went to his first game were he couldnt even walk upright and then only 1 1/2 weeks later he played like he never got injured ? I call that a miracle. But honestly i dont believe in such things.

Dont missunderstand me. I do think Romo played hurt. And all props to him for playing thru the pain. But i dont think he looked that bad because of the pain. He looked that bad because he did simply not pepare for the season. He did not do everything that was in need to be in shape for the first game. Had he, he wouldnt have looked that bad. I dont believe it was his injury that was holding him back in that game and i dont think it was the injury that hindered him to prepare the right way. It was simply his laziness. And i do think he is lazy when it comes to do the right work in preparing for the season. And i dont believe the FO when they say they were overcautios with his camp-reps. I do know a bit about life and how business works. You dont destroy your QB (or a leader of your franchise) in public. Even if he does not do the right things. They invested alot of money in that player. You dont destroy your investement. Especially when its that kind of a risky one.

Romo likes to talk alot about the things he works at. And thats cool because people like to hear such things and - over the years - Romo is someone who learned to say the right things. But he regulary starts the season overweight and out of shape. And that has nothing to do with his two back surgeries. That is a habit he has cherished over his whole career. When he was younger he was able to get away with it but as he got older it shows.

I do think Romo is not the workout warrior he should be to get the best out of him. He is someone who plays thru pain. But over the years i followed him i also noticed that Romo is someone who likes the spotlight alot. And therefore i dont believe in every grimace he shows when he is in that big pain we all should think he is in. I fell in love with Romo when Parcells brought him in for "the statue" in that New York game. And i was in love with him for a long time. But Romo changed as a person and i did not like that change. Maybe that change is something he needed to "survive" being the DC QB. IDK. I just know he left alot of sympathy on the way. Now to me he is someone who talks alot. Who puts himself and everybody around him in much brighter light then it actually is true. I do think that characteristic he already had in him and he developed it over the years. He needs attention. And is doing more for it then for the success of himself or the team.

Playing thru pain is valued by fans in a sport that lives by its archaic values. And it has something to it i admit. But in Romos case i cant deny the feeling that Romos knows about those things and uses it for his advantage. So i dont believe every pain hes trying to convince me of he is in.

The way Romo prepares is not the best for the team. Romo is a player that gets hurt easily. He plays thru the pain and injury afterwards but if he had prepared the right way i do think he could have avoided some of those. And thats more in the interest of the team.

Yes i dont question that he is emotionally very envolved. Romo is a fighter and he wants to win. He is not "ill" and gets our of hand with his emotions like Dez Bryant but i do think he wants to win the same way Dez wants to. But when it comes to put in the work for him its more about emotion than actually doing something to get better. Hes playing basketball and golf in the offseason. Instead of visting the gym and doing track & field stuff which would do him much better - and so for the team.

One last thing to think about before i have to finish: Ronaldo McClain does not like to train. He gets his shares of injuries to avoid camp etc. Still people get mad about him but they love Romo. For me thats ok. I can understand that people judge others differently because they like the one and dont like the other so much. Still i think its worth to be open minded about those things. Its important to be so you can be more consious about reality. To me Romo & McClain are the same type of players regarding preperation.

All 3 of the same main points that I strongly disagreed with you before remain the same.
You can write 10 pages of your (flawed) version of rationale and, on those points, you would not affect my opinion.
I've heard these claims before. Except the outer-worldy crazy comment that he and McClain are the same preparation wise. That's a new one. Just...wow.

I'm not as high on Romo as some around here, but he's way more than plenty good enough to win a title with...IMO.

In the end, if you are sick and tired of Romo...as you say...that is your right.
 

KJJ

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Yeah, no.

Playoff wins and Superbowls are obviously team accomplishments. Tony Romo is not a team.

Tony Romo is the face of the franchise and like all QB's he has a W/L record attached to his position. He'll be judged just like his predecessors by his postseason success not his stats or passer ratings. Stabauch and Aikman are in the HOF because they won SB's. Their teams accomplishments reflected on them because the QB position is a position of leadership that influences the outcome of games more than any other position. They say Jerry Rice was apart of 3 SB's wins with SF but they say Joe Montana won 4 SB's. They say Lynn Swann was apart of 4 SB wins with the Steelers but they say Terry Bradshaw won 4 SB's.

SB wins are attached to QB's they receive most of the credit for team accomplishments that's just the way it is. If their team isn't playing well they're the player who takes the fall. They receive most of the gory and most of the blame it's the nature of the position. It doesn't matter what type of team they have they're expected to win games or they'll be replaced. Bottom line Romo needs a ring to get the respect his play warrants. His stats and passer ratings have to lead to more than just a couple of playoff wins.
 

Rockport

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The biggest measuring stick of the effectiveness of a QB is playoff appearances, playoff wins and championships. That's the barometer that has Brady battling Montana as the greatest QB in NFL history. Stats factor into wins and losses but it's the W and the L in the W/L column primarily in the playoffs that most QB's are judged by unless they're setting NFL all-time passing records like Marino or Fouts or finish in the top 5 all-time passing yards like Warren Moon when he retired.

The passer rating stat has been used as crutch for years with Romo because it's the one stat that puts him ahead of most of the all-time greats. No one ever talked about passer ratings with Staubach or Aikman because they had championships. Aikman with his modest numbers proves how powerful the all mighty Lombardi trophy is by making him a first ballot Hall of Fame QB despite his average stats. Everything Aikman became as a player is tied to his 3 SB rings.

Only for the media idiots.
 
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