Carson Will Hold Parcells' Feet To The Fire

[iceberg]

I kinda think this is an unrealistic expectation. Staff, coaches, etc. spend way too much time on football matters, I don't know how much available time they would have to do "informational interviews." Considering owners are multimillionaires and billionaires, I would think they would rather spend their time doing whatever got them their bazillion dollars.

I do believe there are programs in place already to prepare coaches for the next step in hiring, similar to NFL Player Development programs. But, I think it's one thing to sit in a classroom and "pretend" you're in a job interview and it's another to go into an interview session with your livelihood on the line.

I've been on several job interviews through the years and I've found that I'm much better at it now than I was when I first started working. It took practice tho.

and that part i can understand. maybe have a week set aside in the off-season where they could do informational interviews, if that was a valid goal to obtain. i fully agree - going on them helps prepare for later interviews so i see the value here.

but if they're "this busy" will it help them to *have* to interview people they don't intend to hire for that potential coaches benefit?

i think something like the informational could be setup for all who would like to go through it - not just minorities. i just want to see a benefit opened up for all, not one group or it becomes an advantage.

 

[5Stars]

I believe Asian and Hispanic are part of the rule -- Italian and German decent are not since they are well represented in coaching ranks and do not have as strong a history of being discriminated against in the U.S. It kind of boils down to the census categories. Italians and German etc. would be classified as White whereas Hispanic and Asian are placed in different categories.

Uhhhh, bad choice of words, abersonc...you were doing so good, too!!

 

[Doomsday101]

well i could see some german women *playing* in the NFL, but i didn't know we had such a high amount of german coaches in our time.

unless you just count all the white males as "mutts" (here's proof, my nose is cold!) and somewhere back there is german, norweigan, sweedish, brittish, icelandic, and so forth.

I don't know I don't know how many German play in the NFL. I do know many blacks do play in the NFL and are in the coaching ranks in the NFL and that is why the Rooney Rule was put into place to give these men the access to the interviewing process since they do make up a large part of the league. As I mentioned before it does not force any team into hiring a certain coach but I think as some of these candidates are able to interview and have a chance to impress the GM's and Owners the better chance they will have in the future.

 

[AbeBeta]

Uhhhh, bad choice of words, abersonc...you were doing so good, too!!

huh? you wanna clarify?

 

[CrazyCowboy]

And right after BP interviews Shell, he'll hire Sparano. :laugh2:

:laugh2: :laugh1:

 

[iceberg]

I don't know I don't know how many German play in the NFL. I do know many blacks do play in the NFL and are in the coaching ranks in the NFL and that is why the Rooney Rule was put into place to give these men the access to the interviewing process since they do make up a large part of the league. As I mentioned before it does not force any team into hiring a certain coach but I think as some of these candidates are able to interview and have a chance to impress the GM's and Owners the better chance they will have in the future.

but how are you going to impress them in an interview you have no experience with? if the goal is to get minorities (not blacks) into the process then there should be an educational process in place to do just that. at least then, when it matters, they'll have a chance to impress the owners in the interview, vs get experience.

i would however want that process opened up for anyone, not just todays minority.

 

[5Stars]

huh? you wanna clarify?

There are all kinds of forms of discrimination is all. Should the Rooney Rule include ghey folks also?

The word in of itself is what can open up a great big can of worms regarding this discussion.

But, back to the discussion, one way to just eliminate the Rooney Rule when it comes to coaches is to evenly divide the ranks, otherwise this will go on and on and on...

For instance, there are 32 teams, you need 16 "whites" and 16 "minorities". If a white coach gets fired, the owner HAS to hire a minority. (of course this will never happen, but it would eliminate this kind of discussion).

If a minority coach gets fired, you MUST hire a "white" coach.

The discussion about the disparity on the field is already solved for the most part because of the draft. If the Club sees all black players as good, tough luck for the white guys. If the white guys want to be drafted more, then work at football harder than the black guy and you get your chance!

What is that commercial? "Think outside of the bun"!!

 

[WoodysGirl]

and that part i can understand. maybe have a week set aside in the off-season where they could do informational interviews, if that was a valid goal to obtain. i fully agree - going on them helps prepare for later interviews so i see the value here.

I read an article a few years back after the Rooney rule was instituted that many of the "minority" coaches who went on the interviews were very grateful to have participated in the process. Learned alot about what owners are looking for. Also read that owners actually enjoyed the interviews as well, simply because it allowed them to get some fresh and new ideas.

but if they're "this busy" will it help them to *have* to interview people they don't intend to hire for that potential coaches benefit?

One article I read about Tomlin in Pittsburgh that he was the longest of long shots to be hired. I don't recall him even going on many interviews. And for most, everyone thought Grimm or the other guy would get the HC. It wasn't so much about them not intending to hire him, but about widening their pool of candidates. He came in and wowed them. Sometimes all you need is a chance.

i think something like the informational could be setup for all who would like to go through it - not just minorities. i just want to see a benefit opened up for all, not one group or it becomes an advantage.

Like I said, they probably already have a program of some sort set up for all coaches, but I really doubt it includes anything like you're talking about.

 

[iceberg]

I read an article a few years back after the Rooney rule was instituted that many of the "minority" coaches who went on the interviews were very grateful to have participated in the process. Learned alot about what owners are looking for. Also read that owners actually enjoyed the interviews as well, simply because it allowed them to get some fresh and new ideas.

One article I read about Tomlin in Pittsburgh that he was the longest of long shots to be hired. I don't recall him even going on many interviews. And for most, everyone thought Grimm or the other guy would get the HC. It wasn't so much about them not intending to hire him, but about widening their pool of candidates. He came in and wowed them. Sometimes all you need is a chance.

Like I said, they probably already have a program of some sort set up for all coaches, but I really doubt it includes anything like you're talking about.

thanks, WG - always appreciate your balance into a convo! if it's working as intended and many (myself included) misunderstand it, then more power to it. it would just seem to help more if they could get that experience before an interview itself.

 

[tunahelper]

Carson + Rooney Rule= A Joke!

 

[5Stars]

Carson + Rooney Rule= A Joke!

Did you even read this whole thread?

The Rooney Rule is in place to HELP a minority get an interview with the outcome being that he is hired or at the least get the experience of how to interview for a HC job...



Now, back to your regular scheduled program...

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

I agree with you but rules are rules and so far Parcells and the rest of the NFL are not doing what the rules say.

We didn't when we hired Parcells either. Oh we did the bs interview of Dennis Green after Parcells had his contract but that was just for show.

 

[adbutcher]

That is the ultimate goal -- but when the rule wasn't in place you saw lots of minority coaches not getting any sort of chance and there was a clear pattern of bias. All the league does is enhance the opportunities for minority coaches - the rule is to interview, says nothing about hiring.

Only when mediocre minority coaches (not just the cream of the crop like Dungy and his coaching tree) are getting head coaching jobs and retread minority coaches (other than Art Shell) are constantly in the mix for HC jobs is the playing field going to be even enough and that "people will be seen as people."

I find it a terrible shame that we have to mandate stuff like this. But we do because not doing anything doesn't create a more equal situation.

Great post!

If people look at things for what they are instead of b@!$# and moaning the world would be a much better place. Further it is purely idiotic to compare player positions and coaching positions. The more talented player in most circumstances will play. If the coach wants to win he would typically player the better player. The most qualified coach however had to sit back and watch retreads after retreads get jobs. In my opinion fear (the root of racism) drove a lot of owners to skip over highly qualified minority candidates now they don’t have the luxury of doing so. Hopefully one day the rule will go away but right now it is clearly still needed.

 

[Bach]

Did you even read this whole thread?

The Rooney Rule is in place to HELP a minority get an interview with the outcome being that he is hired or at the least get the experience of how to interview for a HC job...

And if you really have someone you want to hire, you have to go through the motions of giving a token interview to someone just to satisfy a rule.

I'm sure giving Shell or Denny Green a token interview is going to help up and coming minorities get a job.

 

[31smackdown]

I don't really get the whole 80%(or whatever the actual figure is) of players are black rationality. Maybe it's those caucasian's who didn't have the physical or athletic gifts to be able to get to the higher levels, but still had a love for the game, that decided to explore coaching earlier and at a lower level. Maybe they were outstanding college players, but the skills didn't translate to the NFL, so they took a job helping out on their college coaching staff or some simliar scenario. I don't know if that is at all the case, but what I am saying is that people take different paths to different careers.. being an NFL player doesn't automatically qualify someone to be a potential coach and vice versa.. there is a a whole different layer of skillsets involved other than understanding playbooks and strategy, especially in today's NFL, with the salary cap and free agency, you have to have a pretty broad skillset to properly manage that job and all of it's aspects.

 

[Doomsday101]

but how are you going to impress them in an interview you have no experience with? if the goal is to get minorities (not blacks) into the process then there should be an educational process in place to do just that. at least then, when it matters, they'll have a chance to impress the owners in the interview, vs get experience.

i would however want that process opened up for anyone, not just todays minority.

They have the experience as ex-players and assistant coaches we are talking football not rocket science. These men do have the knowledge and experience because they have been doing it most of their lives. As for impressing owners you do so as Singletary did he may not have gotten the job but by the interview process he opened up eyes of others who may look to him in the near future. If this was a system where teams were being forced to hire someone aginst their will I would not be for it but all this does is open the door for a group who makes up the majority of the league yet has not seen many oppertunities as HC.

 

[5Stars]

And if you really have someone you want to hire, you have to go through the motions of giving a token interview to someone just to satisfy a rule.

I'm sure giving Shell or Denny Green a token interview is going to help up and coming minorities get a job.

Again, did you read the whole post?

It's possible that today's minority NFL coaches might not have the job they do if not for the Rooney Rule...

I'm not so sure about the rule myself, like you, it just seems like a "token" thing to do and the owners will do what they want anyway.

But, maybe, just maybe, it will open up some opportunities that otherwise might not be there if not for the rule. Also, if you read the whole thread, others have suggested that it also allows minorities to gain experience on how to interview for the HC job.

You roll your eyes at me one more time, mister, and I'll hunt you down and it won't be good for you!!


:laugh2:

 

[ScipioCowboy]

You cannot legislate how people feel? Yeah, actually you can. You must have missed the Civil Rights Movement and all the associated legislation.

Civil Rights didn't alter the feelings and perceptions of people. America embraced Civil Rights because America was ready to do so. Similar efforts at achieving racial equality had been tried in the past and failed miserably because people rejected them.

 

[iceberg]

They have the experience as ex-players and assistant coaches we are talking football not rocket science. These men do have the knowledge and experience because they have been doing it most of their lives. As for impressing owners you do so as Singletary did he may not have gotten the job but by the interview process he opened up eyes of others who may look to him in the near future. If this was a system where teams were being forced to hire someone aginst their will I would not be for it but all this does is open the door for a group who makes up the majority of the league yet has not seen many oppertunities as HC.

so...a minority represents a majority of the overall league?

while a player has experience on the field to play, doesn't mean they can coach and it certainly doesn't mean they'll know what an owner is looking for in an interview.

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

anyway, civil rights did not legislate how someone should feel, just how they had to act, big difference.

You can hate other races all you want, but you cannot deny them a job because they are black, hispanic, mexican etc