Carson Will Hold Parcells' Feet To The Fire

[iceberg]

Civil Rights didn't alter the feelings and perceptions of people. America embraced Civil Rights because America was ready to do so. Similar efforts at achieving racial equality had been tried in the past and failed miserably because people rejected them.

and they'll take the next step when ready to do so also. good point. i feel we need to put the walls down if we're to get past them.

yes, it will be chaos for a bit but when do you stop racial preferences *or* discrimination? my brother in law was told not to bother applying to their local police department because he was a white male. black female and he may have been hired on the spot.

fair? punish someone for their color and making assumptions off of that is wrong regardless of that color.

 

[iceberg]

anyway, civil rights did not legislate how someone should feel, just how they had to act, big difference.

You can hate other races all you want, but you cannot deny them a job because they are black, hispanic, mexican etc

agreed but you shouldn't have to hire them because they're black, hispanic, or whatever as well.

 

[Doomsday101]

so...a minority represents a majority of the overall league?

while a player has experience on the field to play, doesn't mean they can coach and it certainly doesn't mean they'll know what an owner is looking for in an interview.

True but these ex-players are now assistant coaches and coordinators and yes they know how teams operate and how to manage players. If you can convey that message and your ideals to the GM or Owners that is how you open eyes. They don't need to go to school to be HC hell white coaches did not go to school to be coaches they learned through years of experience as coordinators and assistant coaches. If there was no issue about this the league would never have implemented in and as I continue to say it does not force anyone to hire a certain person it only ensures that the doors are open to minorities who otherwise may get over looked.

 

[iceberg]

True but these ex-players are now assistant coaches and coordinators and yes they know how teams operate and how to manage players. If you can convey that message and your ideals to the GM or Owners that is how you open eyes. They don't need to go to school to be HC hell white coaches did not go to school to be coaches they learned through years of experience as coordinators and assistant coaches. If there was no issue about this the league would never have implemented in and as I continue to say it does not force anyone to hire a certain person it only ensures that the doors are open to minorities who otherwise may get over looked.

ok, so now we have a delima. is the rule to give these coaches experience in how the process works, or is it to nag an owner into hiring a minority?

from your stance it's so they don't get overlooked.
from another stance, it's so they get the experience as well as the opportunity.

i'm not saying % wise things are fine. but i don't feel there's an active movement among owners to NOT hire minority coaches or in the front office. they'll hire who they think will win much like they'll play who they think will perform well. if you're going to look at color in one instance you need to do it in all to be "fair" - otherwise you're just descriminating all over again and continuing the viscious circle.

 

[Doomsday101]

ok, so now we have a delima. is the rule to give these coaches experience in how the process works, or is it to nag an owner into hiring a minority?

from your stance it's so they don't get overlooked.
from another stance, it's so they get the experience as well as the opportunity.

i'm not saying % wise things are fine. but i don't feel there's an active movement among owners to NOT hire minority coaches or in the front office. they'll hire who they think will win much like they'll play who they think will perform well. if you're going to look at color in one instance you need to do it in all to be "fair" - otherwise you're just descriminating all over again and continuing the viscious circle.

I think the main thing is it gives them the exposure which may open up an owners eye towards a candidate that maybe he never considered. I do agree I don't think owners are trying to overlook black coaches but I do think it is easy to overlook people when going through the process. All the Rooney rule does is to make sure that these coaches are not being overlooked. If it was a rule that stated you must hire this coach I would be with you but that is not the case it only allows minority coaches a chance to gain some exposure. I think that will help guys like Singltary who evidently did have a very good interview with the Cowboys last year and could very well draw the attention of other owners.

 

[iceberg]

I think the main thing is it gives them the exposure which may open up an owners eye towards a candidate that maybe he never considered. I do agree I don't think owners are trying to overlook black coaches but I do think it is easy to overlook people when going through the process. All the Rooney rule does is to make sure that these coaches are not being overlooked. If it was a rule that stated you must hire this coach I would be with you but that is not the case it only allows minority coaches a chance to gain some exposure. I think that will help guys like Singltary who evidently did have a very good interview with the Cowboys last year and could very well draw the attention of other owners.

fair enough. i can see that. maybe it's just a necessary evil and i long for the day "we the people" can get beyond such things.

 

[Doomsday101]

fair enough. i can see that. maybe it's just a necessary evil and i long for the day "we the people" can get beyond such things.

I agree with you I would love to see a day when people are judged on merits and nothing more. In sports I don't think that is far off, I grew up when the talk was blacks can't play QB and so few were ever given the chance to be QB's heck Warren Moon went to the CFL because no one wanted him at QB but would take him if he was willing to play another position. I think those days are gone and teams will go after any QB who they think can help them win. I think we are starting to see that in the coaching ranks as well. I don't think racism is rampant in the NFL or sports in general matter of fact I think sports have been a big help in our society when it has come to racial issues. I say that because you learn in sports the only way you can win is by coming together as a team and most players do not have issues with black or white

 

[dogunwo]

no. i just hate having to play games that have no effect on end results really. i think the best players play the position because the owners want to win. same for front office. i don't think they'll hire a "white" guy to win but rather someone they think will win.

i don't see us as a culture ever getting past racism as long as we have divided ourselves up racially and expect things accordingly upon that. if you have one race saying "give me this because i'm xyz" then the other races may resent that.

yes blacks are in a minority in the front office. so are chinese, russians, indians, and emperior penguins.

where are their committees to promote their own advancement in the league?

in my own humble opinion, you hire the best person for the job regardless of race, gender, pizza preferences, and so forth.

I agree with most of what you are saying but, the league is 65 percent black, thats why there is such a push for hiring. And its a "minority" committee, not a "black" committee.

I would be offended if I was being interviewed knowing it was a token situation. Something has to be fixed, but I have never heard a good solution. Maybe there isnt one.

 

[iceberg]

I agree with most of what you are saying but, the league is 65 percent black, thats why there is such a push for hiring. And its a "minority" committee, not a "black" committee.

I would be offended if I was being interviewed knowing it was a token situation. Something has to be fixed, but I have never heard a good solution. Maybe there isnt one.

but if the "league" is 65% black, isn't it odd to shout for equal representation at select levels? *if* we must go by that why NOT players?

 

[5Stars]

but if the "league" is 65% black, isn't it odd to shout for equal representation at select levels? *if* we must go by that why NOT players?

Because the draft is open to all races. It's now a choice, not a mandate of some kind...

 

[iceberg]

Because the draft is open to all races. It's now a choice, not a mandate of some kind...

i understand all that - just seems funny to me they dominate on most of the field positions yet are upset the other positions are not equal.

 

[5Stars]

i understand all that - just seems funny to me they dominate on most of the field positions yet are upset the other positions are not equal.

Power, climbing the latter of sucess...

 

[tyke1doe]

The Rooney rule is so much politically correct horsecrap. Anytime you try and force things people will find a way around it and generally thumb their noses at it any chance they get. You cannot legislate how people feel.

Who said anything about legislating how people feel?

I could care less what you feel about blacks voting. The Voting Rights Act of 1965 assured that blacks could.

I could care less what you feel about segregation. Brown vs. Board of Education struck down segregation in public schools.

Feeling's got nothing to do with it.

 

[tyke1doe]

i understand all that - just seems funny to me they dominate on most of the field positions yet are upset the other positions are not equal.

You don't understand the difference between physical competition and talent vs. coaching talent don't you?

It's easy to determine who is faster, who is stronger, who is more instinctive as a player, and that's because the NFL has become more open to giving all players a chance to prove themselves on the field (lest I remind you it wasn't always that way).

So to, in order to discover who's talented and has the capacity to lead a team, blacks and other minorities have to get their shot as coaches and managers.

 

[iceberg]

You don't understand the difference between physical competition and talent vs. coaching talent don't you?

It's easy to determine who is faster, who is stronger, who is more instinctive as a player, and that's because the NFL has become more open to giving all players a chance to prove themselves on the field (lest I remind you it wasn't always that way).

So to, in order to discover who's talented and has the capacity to lead a team, blacks and other minorities have to get their shot as coaches and managers.

yes, i understand it just fine, but thank you for ignorance assumption.

 

[5Stars]

yes, i understand it just fine, but thank you for ignorance assumption.

:laugh2:

 

[Rack]

I agree with you but rules are rules and so far Parcells and the rest of the NFL are not doing what the rules say.

How has Parcells not doing what the rule says?

 

[tyke1doe]

yes, i understand it just fine, but thank you for ignorance assumption.

If you did understand, you wouldn't have asked the question.

Therefore, I had to point it out to you again. Consider it a helpful reminder.

 

[Hostile]

A month or so ago I gave the NFL some credit for the "Rooney Rule" and how well it is working. The NFL has 7 African American Head Coaches for 32 teams.

The NCAA Division I ranks (it's no longer claled that) have 8 African American Head Coaches for 119 programs.

I find the discrepency very relevant. It is important to get qualified people Coordinator positions and I think College positions as well. I know the college ransk are not the best pool of talent from which to hire for the NFL, but it is still a source and it is way behind the NFL.

 

[iceberg]

If you did understand, you wouldn't have asked the question.

Therefore, I had to point it out to you again. Consider it a helpful reminder.

if i show off my buttchecks to you, will you consider it a friendly thank you?

because i understand something doesn't mean i agree. because this rule is in place doesn't make it right. i don't care about the surface level reasons around why something may exist but i find it odd a minority comprised a majority of the league and they still have rules in place to gain even more ground.

i want the best person for the job regardless of color or any other sidebar you can bring up. i don't like anything that puts a barrier between people and favors one over another for "feelings" involved. you help one you hurt the other. period.

if you have a question about my views, by all means, ask. if you just wanna smart off and get your jabs in, take it offline and i'll be glad to duke it out with you.