Clarity forming on who Dallas will pick at #4

[Sydla]

Jon Machota ‏@jonmachota 44m44 minutes ago
For those worried about Ramsey only having 3 INTs in 3 years at FSU, All-Pro Chris Harris had 3 INTs in 4 years at KU. Ramsey will be fine

Hmmmmm...............

But it also should be pointed out that Harris was a UDFA.

 

[texbumthelife]

Emmitt Smith didn't have a Herschel Walker, Mike Rozier, Reggie Bush, or Blair Thomas type of college career.

And when they took Emmitt I would have laughed at Jim Brown comparisons, and still would because Emmitt and Brown were two very different players. That doesn't exclude both being successful. Ramsey and Reed are two very different players. That doesn't mean Ramsey won't be successful, but to say a kid with 3 college picks will have the effect of one of the best ball hawks EVER is an absolute reach.

 

[NorthwestDallas40]

You may be right but you can find a few SD writers that feel Ramsey is the pick. The need is there after they lost Weddle.

Yup. And I will be fine with Elliott if they do. Truly, I think Ramsey, Tunsil and Elliott are the three best football players in this draft. If we get one, I'll be happy

 

[tyke1doe]

I wish I shared your certainty. I hope so.

I say this because it just sounds right. The only way it doesn't sound right is by the argument you can't take a running back that high. But why it sounds right?

1. He is considered the best player in this draft, and the Cowboys now draft the best available player/athlete.
2. The Cowboys haven't forgotten what Murray and the offense did in 2014.
3. The Cowboys haven't forgotten what Murray and the offensive line did for the defense.
4. The Cowboys haven't forgotten what they have on their roster in McFadden, Morris and Dunbar - all average backs.
5. Jerry wants Romo to remain upright this season and for four more season. A great defense isn't going to do that alone. A great running back and a great line will.
6. Ezekiel Elliott can do it all - run, catch and block.
7. Ezekiel Elliott is a student of the game.
8. The Cowboys have a history of great running backs.
9. Ramsey nor Bosa are going to have the impact EE will. And let's assume they do have an impact, they aren't block for Romo. An extra weapon for Romo - including a blocker like EE - helps the offense which, in turn helps the Cowboys.
10. The Cowboys play the maximum prime time games. No one is going to get excited hyping Bosa or Ramsey. Jerry and others WILL get excited hyping Ezekiel Elliott as the ground game for a star-studded offense.
11. All the coaches like him, including Marenilli.
12. How many wide holes do we have to see in this offense and our running backs not be able to take advantage of them? Darren McFadden? Pulease. The man could only find the end zone 3 times.

I won't be upset if the Cowboys select Ramsey. But Ramsey isn't going to change this team the way Ezekiel Elliott will. Besides, if Karl Joseph is available at #34, we take him and we'll be saying "Ramsey who?"

THAT'S our playmaker in the secondary. The guy can hit and can cover.

So if you had an option of Elliott and Joseph or Ramsey and Henry, which combination would you take?

Give me the former.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Reed played for one of the best defenses the league has ever seen, too. That matters.

Emmitt would be just another decent back if the Browns drafted him.

Maybe, but neither refutes my point. Reed was a ball hawk in college, and it stood reason to believe he could be one in the pros. Ramsey was not a ball hawk by any stretch, and while he *could* end up a better player all time than Reed, it likely will not be because of his ball hawk skills because he never demonstrated an ability to do that, just like as great as Emmitt was, he was never going to beat someone with just speed, just wasn't his game. I'm not even saying he won't improve, just he will not be among the greatest ball hawks in the history of the NFL.

My point is, if you think Ramsey will be great, fine, just compare him to someone who plays like him, not just someone who is as good as you *hope* he will be.

 

[Sydla]

As I said the RB Equivalent impact. I am obviously not stating that he will stretch the field like a WR.

Zeke is a complete back, AP type athleticism, Amazing team guy and high character. He will change the way teams play us. That is my point.

Elliott doesn't have AP type athleticism. Very few TBs ever have.

 

[texbumthelife]

Hmmmmm...............

But it also should be pointed out that Harris was a UDFA.

And Chris Harris has never had more than 3 picks in a season in the NFL, even with one of, if not the best, pass rush in the game. Harris is a fabulous corner, don't get me wrong, he's not a ball hawk though--which is the only thing we are really arguing against Ramsey.

 

[texbumthelife]

Reed played for one of the best defenses the league has ever seen, too. That matters.

Emmitt would be just another decent back if the Browns drafted him.

Jim Brown thinks your comment is cute...

 

[BlindFaith]

Ed Reed was one of the best ball hawking safeties in the history of football. Not only was he a ball-hawk, but he was a homing missile capable of lights out hits.. He was a high level starter day-1. He was the best safety in his draft and a once in a generation talent.

Ramsey may be a better athlete and wind up a great player, but his pedigree isn't a quarter of what Reed's was coming out.

Also, everything about the draft is opinion right now. Do I really need to add a "In my opinion" disclaimer?

Ed Reed was also the 24th pick. And our own Roy Williams was in that same draft and picked at 8. And everyone thought he was going to be a super star.

Point is, scouts, GMs and coaches can and do frequently, get it wrong.

Ramsey started as a freshman, the only FSU corner to do that since Deion. He's regarded by many as the best player in this draft. That's pretty strong pedigree.

If Reed was so highly thought of, why did he last to the end of the first?

 

[MrPhil]

Elliott doesn't have AP type athleticism. Very few TBs ever have.

Out of curiosity, how are you defining athleticism?

 

[texbumthelife]

Ed Reed was also the 24th pick. And our own Roy Williams was in that same draft and picked at 8. And everyone thought he was going to be a super star.

Point is, scouts, GMs and coaches can and do frequently, get it wrong.

Ramsey started as a freshman, the only FSU corner to do that since Deion. He's regarded by many as the best player in this draft. That's pretty strong pedigree.

If Reed was so highly thought of, why did he last to the end of the first?

That has nothing to do with the argument. I have already said numerous times in this thread that Ramsey could be great. That's not the argument. The argument is that he will somehow become a ball-hawk like Ed Reed, when his pedigree shows something completely different. Reed was known as a ball-hawk before being drafted. It made sense (or more sense at least) that it would translate. It doesn't make sense to me, to assume that Ramsey will suddenly become a ball-hawk when he hasn't shown that ability in college.

 

[Sydla]

Out of curiosity, how are you defining athleticism?

Speed, quickness, etc.

Peterson ran a much faster 40 time at the combine when he came out, his vertical and other test results were higher as well. Plus, you can read some scouting reports on Elliott and some will even state that Elliott doesn't have AP athleticism, granted, not many TBs have had that kind of athleticism.

 

[lkelly]

Name the last back from an Urban Meyer offense that impressed in the NFL. I'll be stunned if Dallas drafts a RB at #4. Just because some media members, who at this point in the year are generally running with 90% lies, say that he'll be the pick means very little. Do people that follow the draft really think that the scouts and decision makers are walking to the car and casually mention to a local reporter that Dallas really plans on taking player XYZ if he's there (and mean it)?

Good heavens - almost all of this is an orchestrated show to keep the NFL on the front pages and boost the TV ratings on Thursday night. The inane "say nothing" press conferences that could be written by fans of the teams in advance, the nearly uncountable mock drafts, the "rumors" websites that pop up...

I wish we could go back and compare some of the leaks to Dallas' actual draft boards which they seem to casually reveal after the fact. You'd probably find that you were being fed a giant helping of B.S. in the month of April.

 

[ilykdrama]

I'm not convinced the other RBs are any better than Morris or McFadden.

Every year, a ton of RBs are taken, and they almost all end up average at best.

Yeah, I hear you. That's what's scary about Zeke at #4. And I'm on that would be happy taking him at #4. We'll see. Like Christmas morning, every year.

 

[BlindFaith]

We focus on that too much. Teams are in 3 and 4 receiver sets constantly, so you have 5 or 6 DBs on the field most of the time.

CB - Carr
CB- Claiborne
Slot - Scandrick
SS - Ramsey
FS - Jones
Dime - Church/Wilcox

That's a decent group.

Sure, now what happens next year? Carr and Claiborne will be gone. So you look to draft a corner? High? Or wait later and hope he can start? Oh wait, and he has to be cheap because now you are paying your two safeties round 1 money, one of them being a top 5 guy. Church has been our highest paid safety and he's only been getting about 2.2 mill per year. Byron Jones is making about 2.2 mil per year as well.

 

[MrPhil]

Speed, quickness, etc.

Peterson ran a much faster 40 time at the combine when he came out, his vertical and other test results were higher as well. Plus, you can read some scouting reports on Elliott and some will even state that Elliott doesn't have AP athleticism, granted, not many TBs have had that kind of athleticism.

Ok, so the combine-type measurables. Thanks for answering. I am always trying to learn more.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Ed Reed was also the 24th pick. And our own Roy Williams was in that same draft and picked at 8. And everyone thought he was going to be a super star.

Point is, scouts, GMs and coaches can and do frequently, get it wrong.

Ramsey started as a freshman, the only FSU corner to do that since Deion. He's regarded by many as the best player in this draft. That's pretty strong pedigree.

If Reed was so highly thought of, why did he last to the end of the first?

At that point, safety was not considered a premier position. Eric Turner was the only other safety drafted in the top 10 in the previous 10 drafts (1991). Even without knowing what we know now about Roy Williams' career and Ed Reed's career, just knowing how the game has become more pass happy, a prospect that looks like Roy Williams will never be a top 10 pick again, let alone a first round lock (coming out he was 220, later ballooned up to 240+) and a prospect that looks like Ed Reed has a much better chance of going high.

 

[ConceptCoop]

If Ramsey really is our guy, why the hell didn't we keep our mouths shut about it? It's going to feel like a punch in the gut if a team trades up to snag him ahead of us.

 

[texbumthelife]

Name the last back from an Urban Meyer offense that impressed in the NFL.

I would take Carlos Hyde in a heartbeat.

 

[texbumthelife]

If Ramsey really is our guy, why the hell didn't we keep our mouths shut about it? It's going to feel like a punch in the gut if a team trades up to snag him ahead of us.