Cleveland pick in 08: Please give us this guy!

[silverbear]

First of all, if the stinger were due to an hyperextension of the nerves, the surrounding tissue would also be hyperextended to the point of noticeable damage being done to them. This was not the case with McCoy, as the statements made by tu's team doctor will attest to.

His stinger was brought about by the shifting of a thoracic vertebrae resulting from hits suffered in the K-State game and was reaggrevated in the A&M game. This is not in any way a "serious" condition so long as the shift is not damaging the spinal nerves or causes the spinal column to severe (neither of which happened to McCoy).

"After the injury, Colt experienced shoulder weakness and neck pain," trainer Kenny Boyd said. "When evaluating injuries, we look for return of normal strength and a reduction of pain before putting a player back into the game. Colt wasn't released to play because his symptoms, including strength, did not improve."

http://cbs.sportsline.com/collegefootball/story/9797994/rss

“From what I understand of a nerve impingement or stinger is it can heal itself in an hour or a couple days or longer,” Brad McCoy said. “Colt was trying to come back and play, but the strength in his arm was such that he couldn’t.”

You see, it was a team decision not to let him back into the game, one basically made by the trainers...

Not by Colt himself, he wanted to go back in...

Brad McCoy said his son never lost feeling in his right arm but said the shooting pain from the pinched nerves in his neck and shoulder area affected Colt’s strength in his right arm.

http://colleges.beloblog.com/archives/2006/11/mccoy_sidelined_by_stinger.html

After spending three hours at Brackenridge Hospital, McCoy was diagnosed with a severe pinched nerve in his neck. And it's a common diagnosis with athletes, particularly football players and wrestlers. The American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons estimates that 70 percent of college football players have suffered some sort of pinched nerve injury, usually called stingers or burners.

The severity of the injuries vary, although players all initially experience sharp, radiating pain and a loss of strength in one or both arms. The symptoms may last for several seconds or linger for weeks

Note the use of the word "severe", HH... not my choice of words, the choice of words by the doctor who treated him at Brackenridge Hospital (which I understand is a very good hospital, arguably the best in the Austin area)...

McCoy walked off the field, but was in obvious pain as he was checked on the sideline. Doctors would not allow him to return, but he was cleared for contact eight days later for the Texas A&M game. He left that game with 20 seconds to play after A&M defensive lineman Michael Bennett hit him under the chin as McCoy threw a pass. Minutes before the final hit, McCoy was blasted by Aggie Kellen Heard. The hit was so severe and so late that officials tossed Heard from the game

Got to love those cheap-shotting Aggies...

Dr. Kevin Christensen, an orthopedic surgeon at UT Southwestern Medical Center at Dallas, said he takes a "conservative approach" to treating such injuries. He requires an athlete to have full strength and be pain free for a month before he'll clear him to play again.

Onan said he takes the same approach.

McCoy's situation does seem to be following the month-long timetable. Brad McCoy, Colt's father, said the symptoms began receding while Colt was being treated at the hospital, Nov. 24.

So, McCoy's progress from a SERIOUS injury was pretty much what you'd expect from a SERIOUS injury...

http://www.oxfordpress.com/news/content/shared/sports/stories/2006/12/FBC_TEXAS_1221_COX.html

But gee whiz, HH, I can't seem to find ANY quotes from the Texas team doctor... just one from the Texas team TRAINER, and it doesn't say what you're claiming at all, at all...

Nope, ALL the quotes I can find from back then say it was a very serious stinger injury indeed... and y'know, somehow I doubt you've seen his X-rays, so your I find your "diagnosis" less than compelling...

You wouldn't be makin' stuff up in your desperation to get over on a message board, would you??

 

[The30YardSlant]

http://cbs.sportsline.com/collegefootball/story/9797994/rss



You see, it was a team decision not to let him back into the game, one basically made by the trainers...

Not by Colt himself, he wanted to go back in...



http://colleges.beloblog.com/archives/2006/11/mccoy_sidelined_by_stinger.html



Note the use of the word "severe", HH... not my choice of words, the choice of words by the doctor who treated him at Brackenridge Hospital (which I understand is a very good hospital, arguably the best in the Austin area)...



Got to love those cheap-shotting Aggies...



So, McCoy's progress from a SERIOUS injury was pretty much what you'd expect from a SERIOUS injury...

http://www.oxfordpress.com/news/content/shared/sports/stories/2006/12/FBC_TEXAS_1221_COX.html

But gee whiz, HH, I can't seem to find ANY quotes from the Texas team doctor... just one from the Texas team TRAINER, and it doesn't say what you're claiming at all, at all...

Nope, ALL the quotes I can find from back then say it was a very serious stinger injury indeed... and y'know, somehow I doubt you've seen his X-rays, so your I find your "diagnosis" less than compelling...

You wouldn't be makin' stuff up in your despseration to get over on a message board, would you??

An X-Ray, MRI exam and CT scan showed no structural damage to McCoy's neck or shoulder, said Dr. Carey Windler, the team's orthopedic surgeon.

Not an injury. Sorry

 

[silverbear]

I know exactly what a stinger is and is not. You had to look it up,

Uhhh, no, I didn't... I knew what a stinger was, having had a couple my own self (got them in my left shoulder, playing golf, if you can believe that)... I just knew that you wouldn't take MY word for it, so I went and got some experts...

McCoy had no damage to any tissue anywhere in his body according to team doctors.

Never have seen any quotes from team doctors... just one from the trainer, who talked about the SEVERITY of the injury, and the official diagnosis from Brackenridge Hospital, which talked about a SEVERE stinger...

 

[The30YardSlant]

Never have seen any quotes from team doctors... just one from the trainer, who talked about the SEVERITY of the injury, and the official diagnosis from Brackenridge Hospital, which talked about a SEVERE stinger...

Well, now you have, not that that will stop you from making outlandish and false medical claims

 

[silverbear]

Not an injury. Sorry

Yawn... that's right, a SEVERE stinger isn't an "injury"...

Gawd, do I feel sorry for any patients you might wind up treating... and Gawd, do all those Aggie jokes ring truer than ever, after exchanging few posts with you...

 

[Hostile]

I don't know how I know, but the writers of ER, House and Grey's Anatomy have read this thread and are going to somehow fit it's theme into each of their shows this fall...

I sure as hell don't want to be treated by any doctor who thinks a stinger isn't an injury.

Talk about a foolish stance. Sort of reminds me of this pass route debate...

...but I digress.

 

[The30YardSlant]

Yawn... that's right, a SEVERE stinger isn't an "injury"...

Gawd, do I feel sorry for any patients you might wind up treating... and Gawd, do all those Aggie jokes ring truer than ever, after exchanging few posts with you...

1: Colt didnt have a severe stinger. If he did, the MRI or CT scan would have shown conclusive tissue damage, however, it did not. You cannot refute medical facts. He simply could not in any way have had a "severe" stinger without the accompanying tissue/ligament damage, it simply isnt possible.

2: If he HAD suffered a severe stinger, he would have been in far too much pain to even get his shoulder pads on, let alone play in a full contact game of college football. He wouldnt even have been able to raise his arms above his head or perform anything resembling a correc throwing motion.

 

[silverbear]

Why would they? Playing with a stinger poses no medical risk to the player.

Again, my rebuttal comes from the same spine.org website that I got my earlier response from:

First time stingers will usually recover quickly even without treatment, but there is a greater risk of recurrent injury if left untreated. Each additional stinger will likely result in continued neurologic impairment including muscle weakness...

In some situations, the effects of the stinger can lead to permanent nerve damage if left undiagnosed and untreated...

The key concern is to avoid permanent nerve damage, which could cause problems in the young athlete’s personal as well as athletic life.

So, playing with a stinger poses "no medical risks to the player", eh, doctor?? I guess PERMANENT NERVE DAMAGE is nothing to be concerned about...

I suddenly find myself hoping you someday wind up the Aggies' team doctor...

 

[The30YardSlant]

I sure as hell don't want to be treated by any doctor who thinks a stinger isn't an injury.

Talk about a foolish stance. Sort of reminds me of this pass route debate...

...but I digress.

A mild stinger brought about by vertebrae coming out of line is no more an injury than a stress headache. Physical pain caused by an abnormal body condition than can be treated very easily with no after effects or physical damage of any kind.

A severe stinger IS an injury, however, they are much more uncommon and Colt did not have one

 

[The30YardSlant]

Again, my rebuttal comes from the same spine.org website that I got my earlier response from:



So, playing with a stinger poses "no medical risks to the player", eh, doctor??

"In some situations" being the key term you chose to ignore

You can argue till you are blue in the face, the medical fact of the matter is the type of stinger Colt had physically cannot result in permanent physical harm, no matter how long you play with it. Now, it may hurt like Hell if it gets hit again, but it won't "hurt" you in the sense that it won't cause you any physical harm outside of discomfort.

Now, if there was tissue damage and the nerves were hyperextended, that can be serious and players have lost all feeling in their upper back/neck for extended periods. That being said, Colt didnt have any tissue damage.

 

[silverbear]

The type of stinger you described would be seen in someone who has hyperextended or torn a muscle in their neck or upper back, and there would be clearly visible damage.

I've hyperextended my knee before, many times, and generally there is at worst minimal swelling... the knee just gets stiff on me... beyond that, I've rarely seen any swelling at all when I torn a muscle... with my hamstring, I just got a little bruising caused by a pool of blood behind my knee, which is where I tore it...

It's the strangest thing, though, spine.org (which is the official website for the North American Spine Society) metions nothing about "visible damage" anywhere in their length analysis of the causes and treatment of shoulder stingers...

 

[silverbear]

The type of stinger you described would be seen in someone who has hyperextended or torn a muscle in their neck or upper back, and there would be clearly visible damage.

I've hyperextended my knee before, many times, and generally there is at worst minimal swelling... the knee just gets stiff on me... beyond that, I've rarely seen any swelling at all when I torn a muscle... with my hamstring, I just got a little bruising caused by a pool of blood behind my knee, which is where I tore it...

It's the strangest thing, though, spine.org (which is the official website for the North American Spine Society) metions nothing about "visible damage" anywhere in their lengthy analysis of the causes and treatment of shoulder stingers...

 

[silverbear]

A mild stinger brought about by vertebrae coming out of line is no more an injury than a stress headache. Physical pain caused by an abnormal body condition than can be treated very easily with no after effects or physical damage of any kind.

A severe stinger IS an injury, however, they are much more uncommon and Colt did not have one

According to the doctors at Brackenridge Hospital, where he was treated, that's EXACTLY what he had...

 

[The30YardSlant]

It's the strangest thing, though, spine.org (which is the official website for the North American Spine Society) metions nothing about "visible damage" anywhere in their length analysis of the causes and treatment of shoulder stingers...

This is because it's a given to anyone who has taken a high school anatomy class

Nerve damage resulting from hyperextension will be accompanied by muscle/ligament damage of some kind. It's not only a medical fact, it's simply common sense.

 

[silverbear]

Well, now you have, not that that will stop you from making outlandish and false medical claims

All I've seen is a quote that there was no STRUCTURAL damage... nerve damage is not structural damage...

That quote was offered to assure Horns fans that there would be no long-term affects from the injury, not to suggest the injury wasn't serious...

 

[The30YardSlant]

According to the doctors at Brackenridge Hospital, where he was treated, that's EXACTLY what he had...

According to team doctors, it is not what he had

Funny thing is, McCoy was only carted off the field as a precaution, and was up and around the next day, talking to reporters and fans, with not so much as a sling on.

 

[silverbear]

It really doesnt, and in all honesty I care very little about whether or not McCoy will or won't be successful in the future.

It's just fun bantering back and forth with SB because he gets so into it, as if the internet were a serious matter.

Actually, this is me having FUN... you can't imagine the giggles I'm having, watching you try to defend your asinine argument...

If you're absolutely determined to make yourself look like an idiot, helping you out is the least I can do...

 

[The30YardSlant]

All I've seen is a quote that there was no STRUCTURAL damage... nerve damage is not structural damage...

This is a true statement

Because it is a true statement, I will use a step by step lesson to show hw, based on your own statement of fact, McCoy did not have a serious injury:

1: Nerve damage only occurs when the nerves are hyperextended along with tissue

2: So for nerve damage to occur, the nerves would have to be hyperextended, and thus there must also be structural damage

3: tu team doctors stated, unequivically, that there was no structral damage

4: Therefore, anyone with half a brain can conclude that no structural damage = no nerve damage = no injury

 

[silverbear]

1: Colt didnt have a severe stinger.

REAL doctors, at a fine hospital, disagree with you... they were the ones who characterized the injury as "severe"...

2: If he HAD suffered a severe stinger, he would have been in far too much pain to even get his shoulder pads on, let alone play in a full contact game of college football

Uhhh, he DIDN'T play, until about two weeks later... which is not an unduly short period of time to recover from a severe stinger, but apparently, he wasn't fully recovered even then...

He wouldnt even have been able to raise his arms above his head or perform anything resembling a correc throwing motion.

And that's why he didn't come back in the game...

 

[The30YardSlant]

Actually, this is me having FUN... you can't imagine the giggles I'm having, watching you try to defend your asinine argument...

If you're absolutely determined to make yourself look like an idiot, helping you out is the least I can do...

You can giggle all you want, in terms of medical expertise, you have shown to be fairly low on the food chain. You're wrong, and that is the simple fact of the matter.