I despise...absolutely despise gender-swapping characters for diversity reasons when there is no reason to as there are plenty of established characters they could use like you said.
Despite being a fan of the Silver Surfer, i admit that i am naive about the alternative reality Silver Surfer. Probably because i am so head stone stubborn to
I abhor speaking on the topic of diversity, especially since it can potentially and easily de-evolve into a site rule (or two) violation. However, I thought it necessary to clarify a couple of things, completely for selfish reasons, and not discuss anything else afterwards.
). My problem with Shalla-Bal is this.
I wish to further explain some of my thinking that may have been misinterpreted. Despite Marvel's relative success or failure with audience reception, I do believe they are implementing the multiverse concept separately for each individual movie thus far. I do not think they are necessarily stringing all the multiverse stories together to create one singular phase story narrative. My assumption is based on how I have interpreted what has been done with the multiverse so far in movies like Spider-Man: No Way Home, Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness and during the end credits of The Marvels.Despite being a fan of the Silver Surfer, i admit that i am naive about the alternative reality Silver Surfer. Probably because i am so head stone stubborn to
stay in the Norrin Radd era and existence.that i grew up so with.
Silver Surfer remains among the very top five, utter brilliant, extraordi ideas in all time comic book history in my opinion:
- Spiderman
- Superman
- Silver Surfer
- Daredevil
- Wolverine
To me, it's another one of Disney/Marvel idea of switch matters around to try to present a different format and reality to the viewing audience.
And like it's been said " Shalla Bal" could have easily been Nova - if they just had to have a female Galactus herald, but nope Disney wanted to totally change the character Silver Surfer Norrin, ..and give him
I also do not like the notion of that reality that Everyone has super powers ... as opposed to Galactus touching and anointing a submissive human being
with the " Power Cosmic " ... and the experience and transformation of puny human to invincible.
More so, the element of submissive human sacrifice of Norrin to Galactus to be his scouting herald, for the urge plea to save his people, ..his people, his family and
beloved companion.. .does that now go down the drain with the appearance of Shalla Bal ..?
I think you might have misunderstood my point. I have no problem with more female characters. I have no problem with eventually a female taking up a mantle for a dead character, like Mar-Vell and Carol Danvers. My problem is replacing a very well-known and popular character with a female version for the sake of an agenda when there is already a diverse stable of strong female characters in the comics to pull from. It's diminishing one to artificially strengthen the other. It's tantamount to admitting they don't believe that their own original female characters can draw crowds so have to resort to cheap trickery. I think Frankie Raye is a perfect solution. She was an interesting character and a Herald. It doesn't crap all over lore to use her.I abhor speaking on the topic of diversity, especially since it can potentially and easily de-evolve into a site rule (or two) violation. However, I thought it necessary to clarify a couple of things, completely for selfish reasons, and not discuss anything else afterwards.
Marvel Cinematic Universe stands for any-and-all Marvel Comics content adapted for films and television--plus other entertainment ventures such as video games, etc. When I previously stated, "Marvel has made a strong push for including female characters in the MCU."--it most definitely alluded to diversity usage. I immediately followed my statement with, "I have little-to-zero problem with that directive." I did so to emphasize it was important to me any-and-all Marvel Comics content application was done smartly and correctly solely from my own personal comic book nerd perspective.
I have not sat down and done an exhaustive recollection of character usage to-date for the MCU but I can think of a few examples for what I will say next. Characters like Shuri and Shalla-Bal, as they have been used or (seemingly) shall be used in the MCU, predate the MCU within the pages of Marvel Comics.
A character like the current Captain Marvel originated in 2012 after Iron Man kicked off the MCU in 2008. It may be true forethought had been assigned to the latest incarnation of the character being included one day into the MCU. I could not corroborate that assumption during a quick internet search, lol. However, the Carol Danvers character was created in 1968. Marvel edited her character as Ms. Marvel in 1975. The publisher killed off the Mar-Vell character with cancer in 1982 and exchanged his moniker a couple of times in order to keep their trademark fight with DC Comics alive. And while it may not have played as a primary factor, comic fans had been vocal in having Danvers succeed Mar-Vell for decades--well before Tony Stark's superhero origin was re-told in the MCU's first movie.
Finally, I wanted to re-iterate my irritation with the Shalla-Bal news by restating something I have said several times in the past within this thread or the Rate The Last Movie thread. Basically, I have no problem with adaptations of practically any comic book character into films or television. I favor tons of them over the minority that I do not care for (I may stroke out if any future Fantastic Four project introduces The Impossible Man!!!
There is a strong argument Disney/Marvel is strictly sticking with its multi-verse strategy by snatching this particular character from previous comic book material based on an alternate reality. In my opinion, it is not necessary to be that strict (if true) because the bulk of the general audience does not have a clue who Shalla-Ball is (heck, I did not know of this alternate version myself) and 'enough' actual comic book fans would not care if there was a slight alteration. My own personal alternative would be the use of Frankie Raye as a Galactus herald instead of Shalla-Bal. She would not be a substitute Norrid Radd. There would be a stronger, more 'natural' connection with the Fantastic Four. Shoot. Johnny Storm and Frankie were LOVERS in the comics! And would it really matter if Frankie's origin was tweaked by placing her into another alternate reality? Let's face it. Marvel has created a loooooooooooooooooooooot of heralds for Galactus over the decades. Tweaking one would not undermine continuity.
This rant is not an attempt to change any fellow member's stance on female character usage in the MCU or any other type of film or television series. Please know. I read, respect and fully comprehend what my fellow members' thoughts on the topic for a while now.
No. I understood.
Imo, ..a "down the road future" Norrin Radd would sound very odd and add that more confusion (and disappointment ?) , but i could see Dis-Marv making RaddI wish to further explain some of my thinking that may have been misinterpreted. Despite Marvel's relative success or failure with audience reception, I do believe they are implementing the multiverse concept separately for each individual movie thus far. I do not think they are necessarily stringing all the multiverse stories together to create one singular phase story narrative. My assumption is based on how I have interpreted what has been done with the multiverse so far in movies like Spider-Man: No Way Home, Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness and during the end credits of The Marvels.
For this reason, I would not conclude Julia Garner has a 100% guarantee of recurring as Shalla-Bal as the Silver Surfer. This could easily be the actress' a one-shot appearance in the MCU. A future actor could be cast as Norrid Radd down the road, whether it is as the Silver Surfer of the Earth-616 reality or another one. The only limitation Disney/Marvel can assign something as complex as a multiverse is one they saddled themselves with.
One thing, that I do not believe has a good chance of being developed for the big or small screen is the Earth-X/everyone has powers concept. I think the idea is too broad for the studio to define AND invest money into creating. Although I did get carried away describing the plot of Earth-X (something I had not read before), I do not believe it will be adapted material entirely. My speculation was more about any future MCU commitment to The Celestials--and, by extension, Eternals--since it appeared to me the Shalla-Bal idea as Silver Surfer was pulled from that particular source material.
When I previously said, "Yet, everyone DID NOT have superpowers in Eternals, did they? Would these be totally DIFFERENT Celestials?" , I was distinguishing the difference between what was seen in Eternals and the comic book mini-series the Shalla-Bal Silver Surfer appeared in. So that movie was not from the Earth-X reality. Thus, I would also assume The Celestials from that movie are not the same cosmic beings who should be connected with Shalla-Bal Silver Surfer from the Earth-X reality. My apologies if I made it seem as if I expected Marvel to give everyone powers--when nothing seen in the MCU so far suggests they would.
To make a long story short, I would not give up yet on the possibility of Norrid Radd's story being told in the MCU. Marvel may be setting the stage of one Silver Surfer leading to the introduction of the preferred Silver Surfer, similar to what we are already seeing happen with the Mister Fantastics.
My biggest gripe on the gender flips is why not just create a new character instead of doing something that cheap? Harley Quinn was created in the Batman animated series and then pushed into all the comics, games and Batman universe, and is now one of the biggest roles in the comics world. An abused girlfriend of a psychopath is probably not a shining example of female empowerment LOL but just showing that it can happen. I would think they would want to do that more, it gets stale using the same characters over 50 years.
i'm all on board with implementing female characters into the MCU,.. just think they need to be new stand alone, instead of replacing the originals,
Interesting view becuz i also applauded DC involving and evolving.Harley Quinn, a character as a quasi-psyco Joker like figure. as DC universe has all kind of problems and difficulties standing out any new DC figures. ..talk about "stale' - its' always just Superman & Batman, Joker ...that's probably all the more reason why Wonder Woman was a smash hit..it was something popular, new and refreshing on the scene .. .( Ooh so, forbid us the whisper of the dreadful; sequel -84 ...uuugh!)
Marvel created Venom. I think Punisher is an 80’s character? Deadpool. All three of those guys have their own movie/TV franchises, and two of them make a hell of a lot of money. People will read new characters, you just have to do it right.
There is always the possibility of disappointment. Just read this thread for that.
Confusion is not exactly the same and relative to who is watching, what they can comprehend, and/or the what degree of fiction they are willing to accept.Not necessarily. Just spitballing but Norrin and Shalla-Bal could mutually make the same plea for their planet. Remember, Shalla-Bal was Zenn-La's ruler in the original Silver Surfer story. Her status may have been the same in the Earth-X mini-series. It may not be a stretch assuming Shalla-Bal could be shown wanting to share the burden of the sacrifice and also asking Galactus to make her a herald as well. That assumption would keep her by Norrid's side.
Not sure that I follow. I extremely doubt Shalla-Bal as Silver Surfer will eventually birth a lead solo role for the actress on either the big or small screen. And please do not dislike for saying the same for the possibility of an actor playing Norrid either. The character lends far more towards a supporting role than a lead role.
For me it’s because they want to have it both ways.
Because the original female Captain Marvel rose back to prominence.i'm all on board with implementing female characters into the MCU,.. just think they need to be new stand alone, instead of replacing the originals,
And stamping the original namesake to new arrivals adds to confusion too,
Such as Monica Rambeau ..as the " new" Captain Marvel
And note how Marvel decided to re-change Monica Rambeau name sake to "Spectrum" .(not the cable company..lol)
So. what happened that decided the change to Spectrum ?
Confusion ?
Who was that ? .. because Marvel's original Captain Mar-Vell died of cancer ..
But all this still begs the question of why? Why choose a more difficult path especially with a property that has been tried and largely failed in multiple movie adaptations at a time where Disney has been floundering with their MCU movies? Why not start off strong with the more beloved and established character? Start off with the original character, before introducing variants of that character. It just feels the wrong way to go about introducing FF to the MCU, especially at a time when Disney really needs some wins with their MCU movies.I wish to further explain some of my thinking that may have been misinterpreted. Despite Marvel's relative success or failure with audience reception, I do believe they are implementing the multiverse concept separately for each individual movie thus far. I do not think they are necessarily stringing all the multiverse stories together to create one singular phase story narrative. My assumption is based on how I have interpreted what has been done with the multiverse so far in movies like Spider-Man: No Way Home, Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness and during the end credits of The Marvels.
For this reason, I would not conclude Julia Garner has a 100% guarantee of recurring as Shalla-Bal as the Silver Surfer. This could easily be the actress' a one-shot appearance in the MCU. A future actor could be cast as Norrid Radd down the road, whether it is as the Silver Surfer of the Earth-616 reality or another one. The only limitation Disney/Marvel can assign something as complex as a multiverse is one they saddled themselves with.
One thing, that I do not believe has a good chance of being developed for the big or small screen is the Earth-X/everyone has powers concept. I think the idea is too broad for the studio to define AND invest money into creating. Although I did get carried away describing the plot of Earth-X (something I had not read before), I do not believe it will be adapted material entirely. My speculation was more about any future MCU commitment to The Celestials--and, by extension, Eternals--since it appeared to me the Shalla-Bal idea as Silver Surfer was pulled from that particular source material.
When I previously said, "Yet, everyone DID NOT have superpowers in Eternals, did they? Would these be totally DIFFERENT Celestials?" , I was distinguishing the difference between what was seen in Eternals and the comic book mini-series the Shalla-Bal Silver Surfer appeared in. So that movie was not from the Earth-X reality. Thus, I would also assume The Celestials from that movie are not the same cosmic beings who should be connected with Shalla-Bal Silver Surfer from the Earth-X reality. My apologies if I made it seem as if I expected Marvel to give everyone powers--when nothing seen in the MCU so far suggests they would.
To make a long story short, I would not give up yet on the possibility of Norrid Radd's story being told in the MCU. Marvel may be setting the stage of one Silver Surfer leading to the introduction of the preferred Silver Surfer, similar to what we are already seeing happen with the Mister Fantastics.
What would be Disney/Marvel's motivation for this hypothetical creation? Harley Quinn's inspiration was simply giving The Joker a comedic sidekick. The character blossomed from that tiny premise to what it is today. Does anything similar or even completely different come to mind for the studio to birth a brand new character, when they already have hundreds of unused characters to pick and exploit from its 60+ year library?
Marvel created an ocean of superheroes and characters, that's what super clear advantage that they have over DC Universe .
I am not a Disney studio executive mind reader BUT I do think it is all to help set their version of explaining the multiverse concept. I can think of a scenario where there are two Silver Surfers, one gets pulled to the Earth-616 reality, does heroic stuff, gets snuffed, and her fellow Surfer--Norrid--finally arrives too late to save her.
DC did fairly well with their small screen and animated stuff, Gotham, Arrow, Smallville, Flash, etc., they just never had that coordinated effort and planning for the big screen.
