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Runwildboys

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My biggest gripe on the gender flips is why not just create a new character instead of doing something that cheap? Harley Quinn was created in the Batman animated series and then pushed into all the comics, games and Batman universe, and is now one of the biggest roles in the comics world. An abused girlfriend of a psychopath is probably not a shining example of female empowerment LOL but just showing that it can happen. I would think they would want to do that more, it gets stale using the same characters over 50 years.
Maybe not (as you said) the shining example of female empowerment, but the women I know love her, and why not? She's strong, smart, brave enough to fight through her fears, and not roll your eyes powerful. She's funny, even when doing something "evil", and her morals are less black and white than most other characters.
 

Roadtrip635

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I am not a Disney studio executive mind reader BUT I do think it is all to help set their version of explaining the multiverse concept. I can think of a scenario where there are two Silver Surfers, one gets pulled to the Earth-616 reality, does heroic stuff, gets snuffed, and her fellow Surfer--Norrid--finally arrives too late to save her.

My idea could be coming from the other side of the Milky Way. My spit-balling is an example of imagination. Marvel folks have imagination. I have no clue why they are doing what they are doing but they came up with an idea, which I do not necessarily believe will be a negative for a future Radd appearance.
All that future planning and down the road stuff is great, but goes for naught if they can't nail that first step This is a property that hasn't exactly prospered on the big screen and even had their comics shelved for awhile. Chalk up all my ranting to an all time low faith with regards to the MCU...........
 

DallasEast

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i'm all on board with implementing female characters into the MCU,.. just think they need to be new stand alone, instead of replacing the originals,
And stamping the original namesake to new arrivals adds to confusion too,

Such as Monica Rambeau ..as the " new" Captain Marvel

38f7670e9e23b06ffb6c2d1f7a325299.jpg

And note how Marvel decided to re-change Monica Rambeau name sake to "Spectrum" .(not the cable company..lol)
So. what happened that decided the change to Spectrum ?
Confusion ?
Yes. I am confused.

Yes. Rambeau was the first Captain Marvel following Mar-Vell's death in the books. Rambeau was followed in the 90's by Mar-Vell's son as Captain Marvel. I *think* there were at least two Captain Marvels following his son. I am a comic book nerd and understand it was all legal maneuvering by Marvel to keep DC Comics from getting the Captain Marvel name for Billy Batson.

The legal battle ended. Marvel 'won'. They decided to not resurrect Mar-Vell from the dead. That death storyline is epic and it would have been a travesty to change it. Carol Danvers 'inherited' Mar-Vell's KREE powers BEFORE he died and became Ms. Marvel. I understand but do not necessarily share in the opinion of copycat characters but if any character was privileged in receiving the title of Captain Marvel in 2012, it should have been and was Danvers.

The 2019 movie tweaked the origin but Mar-Vell was never coming back to reclaim the superhero title. It should not have been Rambeau, who, by the way, went by Photon and Pulsar, for decades longer than when she went by Captain Marvel, BEFORE settling on Spectrum during the past decade. If there should be any degree of confusion, it should be why Rambeau does not go by Photon or Pulsar because her powers where never similar to Mar-Vell's. That said, WandaVision had already fully explained why her alias should be Spectrum.

Of course, I do not expect most of the MCU general audience to know any of this to be confused. My confusion will be even more profound if there are confused non-comic book fans about all these details they have no clue about in the first place.
 

Stash

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DallasEast

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All that future planning and down the road stuff is great, but goes for naught if they can't nail that first step This is a property that hasn't exactly prospered on the big screen and even had their comics shelved for awhile. Chalk up all my ranting to an all time low faith with regards to the MCU...........
Understood. Well-before the MCU, I was on cloud nine after hearing about the Silver Surfer cartoon coming out in the late 90s. "Surely, it could be as good as the cartoon X-men series, right?" Nope. That pissed me off.

A few years past by. News came out about a live action FF movie. Needless to say I was underwhelmed. Few more years past by and the sequel was released. I was further underwhelmed. More years go by and news of an R-rated FF movie was planned for 2015. R-rated means no more cutesy cutesy crap seen in the last two movies, right? The focus would be on the group's origin and it would be adapted well, right? Nope. Toilet bowl material.

Yep. Kevin Feige made me giggle like a school boy with the MCU/FF announcement. The wait has not done me any favors. I love Pedro Pascal but I am not feeling him as Reed. Same goes for Vanessa Kirby as Sue. My confidence builds with director Matt Shakman. It shakes a little with Josh Friedman as one of the primary writers.

I just want the wait to be over so I can sit down and judge it for myself. If I am disappointed fine. Then I will know even the MCU masterminds can goof up a story that should not be that hard to adapt for the screen for goodness sake. Yet, there is one thing I am certain of right now.

It is very very very very likely I will still like it more than some folks. :muttley:
 

Runwildboys

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Yes. I am confused.

Yes. Rambeau was the first Captain Marvel following Mar-Vell's death in the books. Rambeau was followed in the 90's by Mar-Vell's son as Captain Marvel. I *think* there were at least two Captain Marvels following his son. I am a comic book nerd and understand it was all legal maneuvering by Marvel to keep DC Comics from getting the Captain Marvel name for Billy Batson.

The legal battle ended. Marvel 'won'. They decided to not resurrect Mar-Vell from the dead. That death storyline is epic and it would have been a travesty to change it. Carol Danvers 'inherited' Mar-Vell's KREE powers BEFORE he died and became Ms. Marvel. I understand but do not necessarily share in the opinion of copycat characters but if any character was privileged in receiving the title of Captain Marvel in 2012, it should have been and was Danvers.

The 2019 movie tweaked the origin but Mar-Vell was never coming back to reclaim the superhero title. It should not have been Rambeau, who, by the way, went by Photon and Pulsar, for decades longer than when she went by Captain Marvel, BEFORE settling on Spectrum during the past decade. If there should be any degree of confusion, it should be why Rambeau does not go Photon or Pulsar because her powers where never similar to Mar-Vell's. That said, WandaVision had already fully explained why her alias should be Spectrum.

Of course, I do not expect most of the MCU general audience to know any of this to be confused. My confusion will be even more profound if there are confused non-comic book fans about all these details they have no clue about in the first place.
If it helps, I don't really care. :grin:
 

DallasEast

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Interesting view becuz i also applauded DC involving and evolving.Harley Quinn, a character as a quasi-psyco Joker like figure. as DC universe has all kind of problems and difficulties standing out any new DC figures. ..talk about "stale' - its' always just Superman & Batman, Joker ...that's probably all the more reason why Wonder Woman was a smash hit..it was something popular, new and refreshing on the scene .. .( Ooh so, forbid us the whisper of the dreadful; sequel -84 ...uuugh!)
For 80 years, DC Comics' big three are Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman. The Amazon Princess was a hit for ABC during the shallow titillation days of 1970's television for five seasons.

Between her show debuted and her movie was released, her two peers had appeared on the big screen in title roles for:

Superman (1978)
Superman II (1980)
Superman III (1983)
Superman IV: The Quest for Peace (1987) :facepalm: :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:
Batman (1989)
Batman Returns (1992)
Batman Forever (1995)
Batman & Robin (1997)
Batman Begins (2005)
Superman Returns (2006) no comment
The Dark Knight (2008) :starspin::starspin::starspin::starspin::starspin:
The Dark Knight Rises (2012)
Man of Steel (2013)
Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016) Hello Diana!
That's fourteen. 14. One more than the average age of puberty before studio heads to finally pull theirs out of their collective <expletive>. My celebration was short-lived. They released that sequel. :facepalm:

And before anyone says folks were cowering in their britches for decades over a viable box office female superhero in a leading role, please consider one thing first:

The idiots green lighted Supergirl in 1984. :facepalm: Superman IV should have been the end of superhero movies altogether if the Supergirl bomb turned them all into Courage the Cowardly Dog into denying Wonder Woman a shot.
 

DallasEast

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Marvel created Venom. I think Punisher is an 80’s character? Deadpool. All three of those guys have their own movie/TV franchises, and two of them make a hell of a lot of money. People will read new characters, you just have to do it right.
I agree completely. There are treasure troves of characters untapped. Team characters have not been done correctly. Netflix's The Defenders was basically thrown together. DC Universe's Titans had a fair first season and great potential but eroded each season.

There is one thing I believe every viewer can agree on. Like you said, you just have to do it right but excellent quality should come first before box office expectations. Placing $$$ over finding the right cast, the right director, the right screenwriters, etc., will likely not get you the $$$ you hope for in the first place.
 

DallasEast

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Who was that ? .. because Marvel's original Captain Mar-Vell died of cancer ..

.and wasn't Carol Danvers " Ms Marvel " ..instead of MCU's Captain Marvel ?
Yes. Her powers were Mar-Vell's. Technically, Carol Danvers was the first female Captain Marvel because her abilities were Kree based.
 

VaqueroTD

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Maybe not (as you said) the shining example of female empowerment, but the women I know love her, and why not? She's strong, smart, brave enough to fight through her fears, and not roll your eyes powerful. She's funny, even when doing something "evil", and her morals are less black and white than most other characters.
I only meant that as a knock on the reason Disney is converting someone like this who is a fairly popular character to female. Not at all surprised. This sounds like one of those things where the executives got involved, it makes me wonder what else they’re doing? Maybe that’s why the whole F4 movie has such a screwy premise to begin with.
The movie is supposed to start in the 1960s, and for some reason the characters change to the future and the Avengers dimension. Uhh… okay, that was necessary for character depth....

I understand the need to modernize. Superman is a good example. This entire roster of characters at the Daily Planet is white. It’s because it was written in the 1930s. Times change. Even the newspaper itself is almost an obsolete medium. So when they made those latest movies and cast Lawrence Fishburne as the boss, I had no problem, it made a lot of sense. Don’t alienate the audience to stay true to a story with dark undertones of society in those days. Not really sure though about the Silver Surfer decision. What… is space too male dominated? LOL. Anyways, I’ll drop it now before it gets too much into the P word.
 

DallasEast

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oh snap!

As a member of CowboysZone

#5 - You will not post racist, race-baiting or sexually insensitive discussions or comments.



Peoples. It may shock my fellow members but I do not enjoy deleting posts. Please read the above and consider any future responses before posting. That way, future and past posts can remain within my very delicate thread. My thread is so cute! Please water it from time-to-time to keep it blooming. Not you @Runwildboys. You might take my suggestion too far! :mad: :laugh:
 

nobody

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oh snap!

As a member of CowboysZone

#5 - You will not post racist, race-baiting or sexually insensitive discussions or comments.



Peoples. It may shock my fellow members but I do not enjoy deleting posts. Please read the above and consider any future responses before posting. That way, future and past posts can remain within my very delicate thread. My thread is so cute! Please water it from time-to-time to keep it blooming. Not you @Runwildboys. You might take my suggestion too far! :mad: :laugh:
Man, there you go Thanos snapping posts again. It's almost as if you were a responsible mod. We all know the truth though. You just want to make snap jokes at our expense. I can respect that. :laugh: (This is obviously a joke post, not intended to criticize or complain. Just amuse)
 

Roadtrip635

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Yes. I am confused.

Yes. Rambeau was the first Captain Marvel following Mar-Vell's death in the books. Rambeau was followed in the 90's by Mar-Vell's son as Captain Marvel. I *think* there were at least two Captain Marvels following his son. I am a comic book nerd and understand it was all legal maneuvering by Marvel to keep DC Comics from getting the Captain Marvel name for Billy Batson.

The legal battle ended. Marvel 'won'. They decided to not resurrect Mar-Vell from the dead. That death storyline is epic and it would have been a travesty to change it. Carol Danvers 'inherited' Mar-Vell's KREE powers BEFORE he died and became Ms. Marvel. I understand but do not necessarily share in the opinion of copycat characters but if any character was privileged in receiving the title of Captain Marvel in 2012, it should have been and was Danvers.

The 2019 movie tweaked the origin but Mar-Vell was never coming back to reclaim the superhero title. It should not have been Rambeau, who, by the way, went by Photon and Pulsar, for decades longer than when she went by Captain Marvel, BEFORE settling on Spectrum during the past decade. If there should be any degree of confusion, it should be why Rambeau does not go by Photon or Pulsar because her powers where never similar to Mar-Vell's. That said, WandaVision had already fully explained why her alias should be Spectrum.

Of course, I do not expect most of the MCU general audience to know any of this to be confused. My confusion will be even more profound if there are confused non-comic book fans about all these details they have no clue about in the first place.
Mar-Vell never seemed very popular during his day, I tried reading his comics and just never found him very interesting........ that is until "The Death Of Captain Marvel" came out. That was a great story and cemented Jim Starlin's legendary status. Unfortunately, Mar-Vell became more interesting in death and it was too iconic of a story to try and walk back. It was kinda weird, I kinda wanted to see more of Mar-Vell after that, but didn't want to either, it would have just cheapened the story and impact.

Death_captain_marvel.jpg
 

DallasEast

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Mar-Vell never seemed very popular during his day, I tried reading his comics and just never found him very interesting........ that is until "The Death Of Captain Marvel" came out. That was a great story and cemented Jim Starlin's legendary status. Unfortunately, Mar-Vell became more interesting in death and it was too iconic of a story to try and walk back. It was kinda weird, I kinda wanted to see more of Mar-Vell after that, but didn't want to either, it would have just cheapened the story and impact.

Death_captain_marvel.jpg
I was one of those comic book buyers who LOVED Mar-Vell. His Nega Bands fascinated me. And even though I have seen literally over a thousand costumes or uniforms drawn for characters under and outside the Marvel and DC umbrella, Mar-Vell's remains the best of the bunch to this day for me.

His illness and death stayed with me as the saddest storyline for a long time. It has only been eclipsed by Kal-El's death defeating Doomsday.

Edit: Oops! Adding that I love his red, blue and gold uniform. His original green and white Kree uniform, with the planet on his chest, was puking awful. Yuck.
 
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quickccc

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I agree completely. There are treasure troves of characters untapped. Team characters have not been done correctly. Netflix's The Defenders was basically thrown together. DC Universe's Titans had a fair first season and great potential but eroded each season.

There is one thing I believe every viewer can agree on. Like you said, you just have to do it right but excellent quality should come first before box office expectations. Placing $$$ over finding the right cast, the right director, the right screenwriters, etc., will likely not get you the $$$ you hope for in the first place.
... and most certainly will not likely get you the very valuable, critical film critic's reviews
Too many times they can make or break a film's success or failure.
 

quickccc

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I was one of those comic book buyers who LOVED Mar-Vell. His Nega Bands fascinated me. And even though I have seen literally over a thousand costumes or uniforms drawn for characters under and outside the Marvel and DC umbrella, Mar-Vell's remains the best of the bunch to this day for me.

His illness and death stayed with me as the saddest storyline for a long time. It has only been eclipsed by Kal-El's death defeating Doomsday.

Edit: Oops! Adding that I love his red, blue and gold uniform. His original green and white Kree uniform, with the planet on his chest, was puking awful. Yuck.
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a1baff6ec2f850b78fe0c27671ddc6d8.jpg
 

quickccc

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Marvel created Venom. I think Punisher is an 80’s character? Deadpool. All three of those guys have their own movie/TV franchises, and two of them make a hell of a lot of money. People will read new characters, you just have to do it right.

i do admit one DC comic figure I overlooked , and one I considered an enjoyable lie action in the make of BLACK ADAM ...

eb7ef72a19eb7f2f0351a09c5950e5a7.jpg


By It's underwhelming box office numbers, it wasn't received by ... (yes, drum-roll again ) the dreaded film critics .. but it's a guility pleasure for me.
Per ending critics surprised, i was disappointed that it a sequel and of course Super-powered showdown . that it will not happened (sigh)
 

DallasEast

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... and most certainly will not likely get you the very valuable, critical film critic's reviews
Too many times they can make or break a film's success or failure.
I think paid film critics reviews have far less impact on box office or television ratings and far more impact through social media reviews. Viral campaigns have lessen audience appeal of high quality productions and increased the appeal of lesser quality ones.

In short, word of mouth is exponentially far greater now than thirty years ago. Back then, a film critic like Roger Ebert was beloved or hated my studio heads. Moviegoers would sometimes quote what he had to say about their movies, whether it was a good or bad review. Nowadays, a social media influencer (or even a complete unknown) can ignite a tweet storm that makes typical readership reaction to Ebert's columns look pathetic by comparison.
 
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