Commanders... a mammoth disaster in the making

[Hostile]

I love how every Commander fan is now magically some kind of expert on the WCO. "The WCO is going to fix everything!" Six year ago it was, "The FUN AND GUN is going to fix everything".

How is it that drafting two rookies that will contribute next to nothing this year going to help your team because you are running the magical WCO? Your QB is exactly the opposite of what you want from a WCO quarterback. Campbell has a slow-wind up, I think we can all agree on that. He is slow to pick his target, and then slow to wind up, and then throws these inaccurate lazer beams with no touch at all so your tiny little midget receivers have no time to adjust to it and can't always jump the five feet in the air necessary to actually catch the damn thing. Oh god, this is going to be fun to watch.

Yes, you drafted two tall receivers that COULD work in the WCO, and you will be lucky if just one of them actually contributes in thrid receiver capacity in the next couple years...... yeah, you guys are so close to pulling this all together :laugh2:

You forgot to mention Al Saunders' 700 page playbook which would revoltionize Offense.

 

[superpunk]

The Skins aren't great, obviously, but they're not as bad as they look either.

If anything-Gibbs himself costed them a number of games during his 2nd stint-and yes, hiring Saunders, someone who has a completely different philosophy than him, was also a big mistake.

Saunders, IMHO, would be a perfect fit here b/c our biggest strength is the passing game, but he just didn't mesh with someone who plays old-school offense.

They may have had different thoughts on how to call plays, but their offensive philosophies were both derived from the same Coryell tree.

 

[bbgun]

Saw this in today's Wash Times. Maybe we could use it as a template and do something similar for the Boys.

Commanders depth chart analysis: Part I
Commanders 360
BY Ryan O'Halloran


Camp is a month away for the Washington Commanders, a time when the serious roster competition will pick up. But after a bunch of boring OTAs (thank goodness I won't have to use that acronym the rest of the summer), here's my take on the roster.

First up is the offense.

Quarterback (3)

Set: Jason Campbell and Todd Collins

Competition: Sam Hollenbach vs. Colt Brennan for the No. 3 job. Brennan starts at a disadvantage because of his hip surgery but in his favor is that he's a Zorn draft pick and that does carry weight.

Prediction: Ultimately, Hollenbach makes the team and Brennan goes to the practice squad.

Running back (4)

Set: Clinton Portis, Ladell Betts, Mike Sellers and Rock Cartwright.

Competition: None. Each of the four players have specific roles. Young players like Marcus Mason, Pete Schmitt and Nehemiah Broughton make the team only if there are injury issues.

Prediction: Betts had 114 combined touches last year (carries and receptions). If Portis plays 16 games, that number will be significantly less.

Tight end (3)

Set: Chris Cooley, Fred Davis and Todd Yoder.

Competition: None. Cooley is a Pro Bowler who plays every offensive snap and Yoder has become a valuable blocker and occasional receiver. Davis' challenge will be to show Zorn enough in camp to warrant being a regular part of the passing game.

Prediction: Brian Kozlowski will return in Week 13. Just kidding. I think, finally, ol' Koz may be done. Also, Commander Park Media Room Folk Hero Tyler Ecker won't be around.

Receivers (6)

Set: Santana Moss, Antwaan Randle El, Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly.

Competition: Who is the fifth receiver -- James Thrash or Anthony Mix? Zorn spoke highly of Thrash during OTAs and he is valuable on special teams; Mix is in the 6-foot-5 range and gives Zorn red zone options.

Prediction: Both will probably make the team but it's unlikely the Commanders will have six receivers active on game day.

Offensive line (9)

Set: Chris Samuels, Randy Thomas, Casey Rabach, Pete Kendall, Jon Jansen and Stephon Heyer.

Competition: I think Jason Fabini is pretty safe as a reserve guard but veteran tackle Todd Wade could be in trouble. Rookies Andrew Crummey and Chad Rinehart will get good looks in camp. (I didn't include Lorenzo Alexander because he worked mostly on defense this month).

Prediction: It's important for the Commanders to develop a couple young linemen. But these are still the Commanders and the old guy usually gets the nod. The final three linemen will be Fabini, Wade and Rinehart.

 

[wileedog]

The WC system coming in will help JC and Cooley is a legitimate threat. .

Maybe he'll prove me wrong, but to me putting Campbell in a WCO is one of the worst 'on paper' decisions I have seen in a long time.

The new receivers will help, but absolutely nothing in his game I have seen to date screams to me "Joe Montana."

More like Jim Plunkett.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Commanders... a mammoth disaster in the making

I take great offense to the association with the great long lost mammoth( to Commanders). Why do we have to lower the extinct creature.... is nothing sacred. They are dead and gone... why talk bad about the dead?!?!










:laugh2:

 

[TheSkaven]

Boy, I hate to be the contrarian here, but I actually think they are moving in the right direction. I like the pick at head coach, I think he will be very successful in Washington. I really like their quarterback, who I think will be very good in the coming years. Their defense is solid, and their offensive line is above average.

This is a 9-7 Commanders squad.

*ducks*

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Boy, I hate to be the contrarian here, but I actually think they are moving in the right direction. I like the pick at head coach, I think he will be very successful in Washington. I really like their quarterback, who I think will be very good in the coming years. Their defense is solid, and their offensive line is above average.

This is a 9-7 Commanders squad.

*ducks*

The team did well.... well with the old guy QBing... not Campbell. It took him 7 or 8 games to throw a TD pass to a WR.

 

[CowboyWay]

Boy, I hate to be the contrarian here, but I actually think they are moving in the right direction. I like the pick at head coach, I think he will be very successful in Washington. I really like their quarterback, who I think will be very good in the coming years. Their defense is solid, and their offensive line is above average.

This is a 9-7 Commanders squad.

*ducks*

9-7 is possible with some luck and if Todd Collins starts.

No way does that team sniff 9 wins with JC at the helm.

 

[Sonny#9]

The team did well.... well with the old guy QBing... not Campbell. It took him 7 or 8 games to throw a TD pass to a WR.

Oh right, right. Collins lit it up and should certainly start. There's no way Campbell could have done that against some of the worst pass defenses in the league.

 

[TOOMBS]

Oh right, right. Collins lit it up and should certainly start. There's no way Campbell could have done that against some of the worst pass defenses in the league.

Wow, someone is living in denial. Face it, bro.... your team was much better the moment Campbell stepped off the field.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

I don't think the Skins will be as bad as some Cowboys fans seems so sure they will be but there is no doubt, at all, that the team was much more effective, offensively, the moment Campbell went out and Collins stepped in.

 

[firehawk350]

Not to be too mean or inflammatory here, but there's a reason why nobody can take this rant seriously...

I have to agree with the OP. That team is headed for a downward spiral big time.
1. You go as your qb goes. Campbell stinks and has shown very little. Quincy 2.0 with the only difference being that Q-Car Spoke better English.

Except there are extremely clear differences between the two. Take a look at their statistics if you don't believe me. Regardless, I can post the plethora of differences between the two and you would respond with a half coherent rant like, but they both throw inaccurately, if you don't believe me, look at the games (as if you have all of the old QC games saved on your DVR and regularly review them). Either way, nobody can definitively evaluate a QB at JC's stage and anyone who pretends to is either delusional or a lying fool.

2. Offensive line is really getting up there in age. They have talent there sure, but can they stay healthy is the big question. I don't believe they can.

Based on what? Jansen had the first season ending injury that wasn't a complete accident this year. You believe he can't come back from one injury? Same goes with Thomas. His early exit in 05 was a freak accident that could have happened to anyone.

3. The recievers are painfully average. Santana was their best, but he's only a #2. ARE would be a decent #3. As far as the two rookie WR's they drafted, they certainly won't help them this year, and I believe both are busts. There is a reason they both dropped out of the 2nd round.

You believe they are both busts, before they ever strap on the cleats??? They didn't slip out of the 2nd round, they were taken in the second round. Either way, TO and Chad Johnson were both slipped out of the second round, I guess they are hopeless as well.

4. Portis is a little injury prone, but you have to like the kids heart. I can't say anything bad about him. Same goes for Cooley. Hard not to like that kid.

Portis had one career ending injury in his career and is two years removed from that. It's like calling Colombo injury prone, it's grasping at straws. Sure, he had an injury, but I think having gone two seasons relatively injury free, we can assume he's past that.

Defense.
Smoot. Awful
Carlos rodgers God Awful
Shawn Springs. Can still play if he's healthy. But getting up there in age.

Linebackers. Serviceable

Dline. Decrepid. Poor, poor, poor. Some are also collecting Social Security

How can I argue with that scintilating analysis? Yet, somehow with that horrible defense, we managed to post a defense ranked 8th in the league (the Cowboys were ranked 9th BTW). Throw in another year of progression for Montgomery, Wilson and Rocky McIntosh, we should be a bit better...

Coaching. They have more turnover than the 3rd shift at Waffle House. Zorn is way over his head. He doesn't even know the colors of own team. How do you go from QB coach to Head Coach? Nobody in the league wanted that job, and lil Danny knew it. Gibbs left that team in shambles. Traded away draft picks like they were baseball cards and never infused any young talent on an aging and expensive roster. If a coach had done what he Gibbs did in Dallas, I'd be pissed. He will destroy that team for the next 5 years until they rebuild through the draft.

The last QB coach to head coach convert I can remember is Andy Reid. I'm pretty sure he's done okay with his team... The Eagles or something... Nobody wanted the job? Are you kidding me? The Cards didn't have a problem finding a coach that "wanted the job" nor did the Raiders. Snyder is an awesome owner compared to those two franchises.

Either way, if you avoided the absurd hyperbole and actually came close to acknowledging reality, everyone could take you more seriously. If you would have said, I don't think JC is the answer, he just doesn't seem to have it and I don't like their receivers, they just don't project well to the NFL because of X, Y and Z and Moss is inconsistent, I think you'd have some points and credibility.

Instead, it came across like a bizarro ES post.

 

[TOOMBS]

I love how every Commander fan is now magically some kind of expert on the WCO. "The WCO is going to fix everything!" Six year ago it was, "The FUN AND GUN is going to fix everything".

How is it that drafting two rookies that will contribute next to nothing this year going to help your team because you are running the magical WCO? Your QB is exactly the opposite of what you want from a WCO quarterback. Campbell has a slow-wind up, I think we can all agree on that. He is slow to pick his target, and then slow to wind up, and then throws these inaccurate lazer beams with no touch at all so your tiny little midget receivers have no time to adjust to it and can't always jump the five feet in the air necessary to actually catch the damn thing. Oh god, this is going to be fun to watch.

Yes, you drafted two tall receivers that COULD work in the WCO, and you will be lucky if just one of them actually contributes in thrid receiver capacity in the next couple years...... yeah, you guys are so close to pulling this all together :laugh2:

Wow, the Sporting News Pro Football 08' that I just now bought while getting toilet paper and beer seems to agree with my assessment of Jason Campbell..... they are just a little nicer about it.

The book on Jason Campbell:

"Jason Campbell has a number of strong points. He has a strong arm, and he's tall. *Randy Johnson would have been the best QB in history then* His height enbles him to see the field. He does a good job of not forcing things. He has the ability to make plays. One thing I really like is his willingness to stay within the system. A lot of times when a quarterback has Campbell's athletic ability and speed, he'll try to make more plays on his own or take more chances. He doesn't do that. *not smart enough to improvise* He makes plays when everything else breaks down, but he's not looking to run at the first sign of trouble. He gives the plays a chance to develop. *slow to commit to target*

He does need to do a better job of protecting the ball when he's hit. *wait, I thought Romo was the one with the fumble problem* He needs to improve his touch and accuracy on the shorter passes. That's a problem you see with a lot of tall quarterbacks who have the kind of long, full windup, which is another reason he needs to get rid of the ball quicker. *told ya*"



LOL, good luck running a successful WCO with a QB that can't accurately throw a screen pass.

Just accept it bud, time to move on and go in another direction with QB.

 

[firehawk350]

That's an easy enough answer... Saunders finally let go of the reins. The offensive system he runs is very complex and he didn't trust anybody but his little pets to run it. He handicapped the system for Mark Brunell too, just in a different way. The few times Campbell got free rein (by calling his own plays), he did pretty well. That's not to say he doesn't have areas he needs to improve on, but the offensive system wasn't what Collins got to run.

 

[firehawk350]

Wow, the Sporting News Pro Football 08' that I just now bought while getting toilet paper and beer seems to agree with my assessment of Jason Campbell..... they are just a little nicer about it.

The book on Jason Campbell:

"Jason Campbell has a number of strong points. He has a strong arm, and he's tall. *Randy Johnson would have been the best QB in history then* His height enbles him to see the field. He does a good job of not forcing things. He has the ability to make plays. One thing I really like is his willingness to stay within the system. A lot of times when a quarterback has Campbell's athletic ability and speed, he'll try to make more plays on his own or take more chances. He doesn't do that. *not smart enough to improvise* He makes plays when everything else breaks down, but he's not looking to run at the first sign of trouble. He gives the plays a chance to develop. *slow to commit to target*

He does need to do a better job of protecting the ball when he's hit. *wait, I thought Romo was the one with the fumble problem* He needs to improve his touch and accuracy on the shorter passes. That's a problem you see with a lot of tall quarterbacks who have the kind of long, full windup, which is another reason he needs to get rid of the ball quicker. *told ya*"



LOL, good luck running a successful WCO with a QB that can't accurately throw a screen pass.

Just accept it bud, time to move on and go in another direction with QB.

Do you really believe this??? I mean, really? You believe that Campbell has no high points? I mean, there is nothing good about Campbell's game and sporting news just lists some of his weaknesses as strengths because they don't want to hurt his feelings?

 

[TOOMBS]

Do you really believe this??? I mean, really? You believe that Campbell has no high points? I mean, there is nothing good about Campbell's game and sporting news just lists some of his weaknesses as strengths because they don't want to hurt his feelings?

Hey, I am just telling the truth. Most football fans who are not Commanders fans know how inaccurate and indecisive JC is, and the fact that the only thing he even remotely stands out for *long bombs* will be ignored in favor of highlighting his weakest part of the game *short touch passes*. JC will not make it to bye week in a WCO.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Oh right, right. Collins lit it up and should certainly start. There's no way Campbell could have done that against some of the worst pass defenses in the league.

Collins didnt lose games.... Campbell would have.

Also... Collins didnt lose that playoff game... the slackers that surrounded him did..... My hats off to the guy... he had an opportunity and seized... too bad the team mailed it in.

Campbell will be a career backup after this season... maybe mid season

 

[firehawk350]

Hey, I am just telling the truth. Most football fans who are not Commanders fans know how inaccurate and indecisive JC is, and the fact that the only thing he even remotely stands out for *long bombs* will be ignored in favor of highlighting his weakest part of the game *short touch passes*. JC will not make it to bye week in a WCO.

Care to place your money where your mouth is then?

 

[firehawk350]

Collins didnt lose games.... Campbell would have.

Also... Collins didnt lose that playoff game... the slackers that surrounded him did..... My hats off to the guy... he had an opportunity and seized... too bad the team mailed it in.

Campbell will be a career backup after this season... maybe mid season

I could see you make a case for one of his INTs being Moss' fault, but the other two? He was throwing ducks all over the place that game...

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

I could see you make a case for one of his INTs being Moss' fault, but the other two? He was throwing ducks all over the place that game...

I disagree.... at that point the O-line let the pressure through... MAILED IT IN!

Its a shame... I am not a skins fans by any means... but I felt bad for Collins....