Commanders | Team deep at wide receiver

[superpunk]

The questions is, Are you serious????

I'll give you Boldin over Glenn easily. What you might notice however is that Boldin is far and away better than any Skin.

There is little doubt that TO was BY FAR the best WR on that list of names. In 7 games where he was 'tearing apart' that Eagles team he put up numbers that equaled career years for Lloyd or Randel El. Seriously, no kidding at all.

You are talking about a guy who AVERAGES 1200 yards and 11.8 TDs the past 6 years even figuring in his time out to disrupt two teams.

I'd take Fitzgerald over Owens. Maybe even Moss, if we're talking about building a franchise. But for one or two years - give me Owens, give me Holt - guys that have been killing people for years.

 

[jterrell]

I'd take Fitzgerald over Owens. Maybe even Moss, if we're talking about building a franchise. But for one or two years - give me Owens, give me Holt - guys that have been killing people for years.

The context of the discussion is for THIS YEAR.

We are discussing WR corps for the upcoming season.

Statistically it simply isn't close. Fitzgerald might well be on his way but right now he has 1 1000 yard season to his credit. You don't trade off a proven talent for potential. Owens may well be a jackrag but the guy has been a top 5 WR for 6 years running.

The only reason we are even having this dicussion is both Moss and Fitz had unbelievable seasons. Easily best of career numbers. Fitz is very young but Moss has 5 seasons under his belt.

Moss has 2 1000 yard seasons to his credit. This is Santana not Randy. He's 5'10" in cleats. Owens is 6'3" and 225 pounds of muscle wihout being anything near slow.

Moss
RECEIVING
Year Team G GS No Yards Avg Lg TD 20+ 40+ FD
2001 New York Jets 5 0 2 40 20.0 33 0 1 0 2
2002 New York Jets 15 3 30 433 14.4 47 4 8 1 20
2003 New York Jets 16 12 74 1105 14.9 65 10 17 5 49
2004 New York Jets 15 14 45 838 18.6 69 5 13 6 35
2005 Washington Commanders 16 16 84 1483 17.7 78 9 24 10 60
TOTAL 67 45 235 3899 16.6 78 28 63 22 166

Owens
RECEIVING
Year Team G GS No Yards Avg Lg TD 20+ 40+ FD
1996 San Francisco 49ers 16 10 35 520 14.9 46 4 7 2 23
1997 San Francisco 49ers 16 15 60 936 15.6 56 8 16 1 48
1998 San Francisco 49ers 16 10 67 1097 16.4 79 14 17 4 52
1999 San Francisco 49ers 14 14 60 754 12.6 36 4 12 0 36
2000 San Francisco 49ers 14 13 97 1451 15.0 69 13 23 5 65
2001 San Francisco 49ers 16 16 93 1412 15.2 60 16 21 6 70
2002 San Francisco 49ers 14 14 100 1300 13.0 76 13 17 5 61
2003 San Francisco 49ers 15 15 80 1102 13.8 75 9 15 4 55
2004 Philadelphia Eagles 14 14 77 1200 15.6 59 14 20 9 51
2005 Philadelphia Eagles 7 7 47 763 16.2 91 6 10 4 32
TOTAL 142 128 716 10535 14.7 91 101 158 40 493


Fitz
RECEIVING
Year Team G GS No Yards Avg Lg TD 20+ 40+ FD
2004 Arizona Cardinals 16 16 58 780 13.4 48 8 15 1 36
2005 Arizona Cardinals 16 16 103 1409 13.7 47 10 27 4 67
TOTAL 32 32 161 2189 13.6 48 18 42 5 103

 

[big dog cowboy]

Owens may well be a jackrag

jackrag

A piece of cloth used to catch the

 

[silverbear]

I have more respect for WR corps that have 2 very dangerous options, rather than 1 dangerous option and 3 capable guys. That's all I see with Lloyd, Randle El, and Patten.

And I'd say calling Patten "capable" is stretching things... I mean, he started 7 of the 9 games he played for the Skins, and only managed 22 catches in those 9 games... in his last 3 seasons, he's played in 31 games, starting 23 of them, and managed all of 75 catches...

He's not bad for a 3rd or 4th WR, but if your team needs anything more from him, you're in deep doo-doo... so once again, the Skins had best hope they stay real healthy at WR...

 

[silverbear]

Agreed, and he has the OL in front of him that could keep him healthy.

So long as THEY stay healthy, 'cause Tyson Walter is their best backup...

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

 

[silverbear]

Oh, heavens here it comes.....

The buzzards will be here soon......

I swear the Skins fans can sniff out any negative comment about their team from thousands of miles away.

Skins fans seem to haunt Cowboys message boards en masse... I know some of my brother Cowboys fans like prowling Skins boards (a hobby I will never, ever understand), but it's nothing like the sheer number of Skins fans who wind up posting to the assorted Cowboys message boards I frequent...

That just tells me how scared they are of us, what a severe case of Star Envy (apparently a close cousin to ***** envy) they're afflicted with...

 

[silverbear]

Guys Grant Paulsen is a 16 year old, I wouldn't really get bent out of shape over this

I think we're more amused than bent out of shape... but knowing now that the homer in question is a teenager, I'm not even as amused; I was pretty hard-core ridiculous in my fandom when I was a teenager too... so I can forgive the guy for thinking with his heart instead of his head... I mean, lots of Skins fans 30 years older think the same way, and they don't have the impetuous foolishness of youth to use as an excuse...

 

[silverbear]

Nobody says the Skins will better anything except what we did last season. This isn't about what the players are going to become. All they have to do is do exactly what they have done and the Skins will have an improved offense.

Which is an entirely unreasonable expectation, given that Lloyd was the number one option for the Niners, perhaps the ONLY option... as a number two in DC, working behind Moss, do you REALLY think he'll be able to do "exactly what he has done"??

OK, that means you're predicting Lloyd will have at least 48 catches this year, for at least 733 yards and 5 TDs... likewise, we'll pencil you in as predicting Randle El will add 35 catches, for 558 yards and a TD... and since you seem to believe that Moss will produce at the same pace as he did last year, let's put him down for 84 catches, 1483 yards and 9 TDs... then we'll need to factor in David Patten, who played just 9 games, and caught 22 passes for 217 yards and 0 TDs... for a full 16 game schedule, that would project to 39 catches for 380 yards and 0 TDs...

So, if your 4 receivers "do exactly what they have done", that means they'll combine for 206 catches, for 3150 yards and 15 TDs...

If THAT'S what you're claiming, permit me to take a second to laugh at your silliness... with more credible receivers around him, Moss will not be able to replicate the kind of numbers he had last year; as the number 2 option in DC instead of the number 1 option as he was in San Francisco, Lloyd is highly unlikely to be able to replicate HIS numbers either... and Patten really isn't likely to see much playing time, barring injury... the Skins will be doing well if their receiver corps can come up with 80 per cent of the numbers projected above (roughly 160 catches, 2500 yards, 12 TDs)...

 

[silverbear]

Is my name anywhere in that thread?

Nice little weasel move there, troll, but YOU were the one who claimed "NOBODY" is claiming that the Skins WR corps is the second coming... not that YOU weren't making such a claim, NOBODY (as in, no Skins fans)...

The link provided is a devastatingly accurate rebuttal of that assertion, so now you're trying to change the argument's parameters to just what you've been saying...

Perhaps in the future you'd be well-advised not to make such sweeping claims about your brother Skins fans, because you clearly don't know what you're talking about...

 

[BigDFan5]

as the 3rd option? I thought he was the starting WR and the second option? did I miss something or are you guys making things up as usual?

He was the #2, just another case of a Commanders fan not knowing what he is talking about

 

[silverbear]

Brandon Lloyd's role in the offense is going to be dimished from what he had in San Francisco. Antwaan, on the other hand, is basically going to be seeing the same kind of production. Handling returning duties, third wide out, and the occasional trick play.

Well whaddaya know, a knowledgeable and reasonable Skins fan...

I agree with your assessment, though it wouldn't surprise me if at season's end, Randle El will actually have better receiving stats than Lloyd...

And of course, given that the new receivers ARE somewhat better than last year's, Skins fans should anticipate that Santana Moss's numbers will be off a bit from last year... I'm not saying he'll drop off the face of the planet, but a 75 catch, 1200 yard season is more what I'm looking for from him...

 

[silverbear]

Of course you wouldn't. I'm sure you didn't think the addition of Moss would be a big deal either and we all saw how that turned out.

If you compare the Skins against the 49ers we are superior in every category offensively.

Including a number one receiving option who's FAR better than any wideout Lloyd has lined up with...

I'm not saying we're going to have a repeat with Lloyd in the same fashion as Moss, but the potential is there.

Lloyd has never had, and never will have, the same potential as Moss... in the two seasons before Moss came to the Skins, he averaged 59.5 catches per season, 971.5 receiving yards per season, and 7 TDs... in the last two seasons with the Niners, Lloyd averaged 45.5 catches per season, 649.0 yards, and 6.5 TDs...

And while Lloyd was the number one option for the Niners, that wasn't always the case for Moss... so if the two had comparable talent, you'd expect Lloyd to actually have the better numbers, but he doesn't... not even close...

 

[silverbear]

He made the comment about the Cowboys secondary being able to handle the Skins receivers...so far they haven't.

Uhhh, in that second game blowout loss to the Skins, your WRs combined for a total of TWO catches (both by Santana Moss)... even in the first game, Moss was the ONLY WR who posed our secondary a problem, the rest of them combined for 5 catches for 63 yards...

Other than Santana Moss last year, your WRs did NOTHING against the Boys...

Besides how long have we Skins fans had to listen to Cowboys fans go on and on about the same thing?

Hey, if you don't like the way we Cowboys fans talk, perhaps it's not real bright of you to hang out on a Cowboys board...

 

[big dog cowboy]

Hey, if you don't like the way we Cowboys fans talk, perhaps it's not real bright of you to hang out on a Cowboys board...

Game, set, match.

 

[silverbear]

Nice, intelligent response.

You said your corners can handle our receivers. On simple question - have they?

Except for Santana Moss, yes...

And of course, most of Santana's success came about as the result of inferior play by our free safeties... well, we've gone out and added veteran Marcus Coleman and 6-5 draft pick Pat Watkins to upgrade that position... according to the predraft scouting reports, what Watkins does best is play centerfield, keep plays in front of him...

IOW, though Moss ate the Cowboys alive last year, that might not necessarily be the case again in 2006...

 

[Gamebreaker]

Let's see....do i really have to rehash everything Ive said, that's been ignored? Lloyd can't catch more than half the balls he gets thrown, neither can Randle El.

That is not true of Randle El. In the last 3 seasons, he's averaged a 61% completion percentage of the passes thrown to him. Furthermore, that stat doesn't mean a reciever isn't sure handed, it's NOT a measure of drops. Brandon Lloyd dropped the same amount of passes that Reggie Wayne did.

 

[silverbear]

There is a big difference having a 1st year QB throwing the ball, and a veteran.

LOL... Lloyd had his best year ever, with that 1st year QB throwing the ball...

I believe the Commanders made the better moves to address their weakness.

Not all of your weaknesses, and IMO not your KEY weakness...

That weakness would be offensive line DEPTH, which was nonexistent last year, and may be even worse this time around... when Randy Thomas and Ray Brown went down last year, the Skins' offense went straight in the tank... they averaged 229.3 yards per game in their last 3 games (the regular season finale plus two playoff games), 3.9 yards per play, and 14.7 points per game (Sean Taylor added 14 more points with 2 fumble recoveries for TDs in that stretch)...

The moral to this story is, once your offensive line started suffering injuries to their starters, the offensive production dropped off the face of the earth... and you guys have now replaced Cory Raymer and Ray Brown with Tyson Walter and Mike Pucillo??

Ask any Cowboys fan about Walter, but stand back when you do, or you risk being sprayed with spittle when the fan in question explodes in laughter... the plain and simple truth is, the Skins do not have a single backup offensive lineman who could even make the Cowboys' 53 man roster...

You guys are also razor-thin in your defensive backfield, and will rely heavily on guys who have never done jack in the NFL in their 7 DBs set... and of course, you're screwed if Brunell goes down, but the Boys would also be screwed if Bledsoe got hurt...

 

[silverbear]

My point is, the Cowboys secondary had trouble with Moss and Cooley and NFL Europe cast-offs...it logically goes to say that now that they have improved that area, the Cowboys secondary will still stuggle.

You must have flunked Logic 101, since your theory makes no notice of the very real possibility that the Cowboys have strengthened their secondary at the same time...

Failure to factor in ALL the variables that might affect the equation renders your logic quite illogical...

BTW, for the most part, Cooley victimized our linebacking corps, not our secondary... and really, he wasn't much of a factor at all in the first game, gaining 20 yards on 2 catches... by the time the second game rolled around, the Cowboys were missing two starting linebackers (Dat Nguyen and Al Singleton), leaving them vulnerable to the TE...

 

[silverbear]

In the first game in your house we didn't do jack against you. But in the 35-7 game Portis had over 100 yards and a 4.9 avg.

It's typical of the way you Skins fans argue, this focusing on ONE game... how 'bout we look at the big picture when it comes to Clinton Portis against the Cowboys since he's come to the Skins??

In 4 games played against the Boys, Portis has 73 carries, for 290 yards (3.9 average) and ZERO TDs... receiving, he's got 8 catches for 66 yards, and ZERO TDs...

That's right, kiddies, in 4 games played against the Boys, Clinton has still not scored a single TD...

 

[silverbear]

How does it water down my argument?

I originally stated that our improved receiving corps would have an effect on our running game. You suggested that Portis didn't do anything special against the Cowboys. My point was that he had a great season regardless of his production against the Cowboys.

Which is really irrelevant to this argument, since we've been discussing the Skins-Cowboys matchups this coming season...