Comment from a Skins fan

[AdamJT13]

seeing as cowboy fans can't agree on whose fault it was ('one was', 'neither was'), why don't you enlighten me with your take? who was supposed to be helping glenn?

Nobody was "supposed" to be helping Glenn. In that coverage, if the inside receiver runs a vertical route, the cornerback (who is covering the outside receiver) has no deep help. You can blame Glenn or the coverage itself, but as Parcells said, you can't blame Roy.

 

[riggo]

nobody was supposed to help glenn?? then what was roys responsibility on the play? is that not what a safety does?
even if i were to buy that explanation, who was calling that coverage? the boys were up by 13- did they think the skins were going to run the ball? all they had to do was keep moss in front. any other defensive call was a bad one.

 

[Hoods]

nobody was supposed to help glenn?? then what was roys responsibility on the play? is that not what a safety does?
even if i were to buy that explanation, who was calling that coverage? the boys were up by 13- did they think the skins were going to run the ball? all they had to do was keep moss in front. any other defensive call was a bad one.

Doesn't matter who drew up the bad play... Parcells explained how it wasn't Roy's fault. Do you think he's going to do it just to boost his ego? If anything, Bill is the type that would point it out and get all over Williams for allegedly messing up twice. Not happening here. Did you see the stats Calico posted aswell? Add that in with the hard (controlled) hitting and great character, the smart fans would pick Roy over Sean all day hands down.

 

[AdamJT13]

nobody was supposed to help glenn?? then what was roys responsibility on the play? is that not what a safety does?

No, in a cover 4, the safety's primary responsibility is to read the inside receiver (whether it's a wide receiver, tight end or running back) and cover him if he runs a vertical route.

 

[Eanwen]

Roy only has one td? I thought he scored a td against the Commanders.

 

[DeathToTheSkinS]

Ill admit roy hasnt always been a game breaking guy, hes come along way. He saved us against the giants and won us the eagles, he helped out alot against Denver forcing that fumble...Anyway, he goes for the turnover rather than the big hit more than he used to. But he is Roy Williams and is a hitter and intimidator not Prime Time Sanders

 

[riggo]

Doesn't matter who drew up the bad play... Parcells explained how it wasn't Roy's fault. Do you think he's going to do it just to boost his ego? If anything, Bill is the type that would point it out and get all over Williams for allegedly messing up twice. Not happening here. Did you see the stats Calico posted aswell? Add that in with the hard (controlled) hitting and great character, the smart fans would pick Roy over Sean all day hands down.

ok- parcells says its not roys fault. everyone else watching a TV screen says it is. believe whatever makes you feel better. safetys arent supposed to stop WR's from getting behind them or anything.

like i said- its either a bad defensive play call and its roys fault, or its a good call and its roys fault. nobody has been able to explain how its not. i only keep hearing 'its not his fault cuz parcells said so'.

thanks.


oh- smart fans pick williams all day over taylor? sub 'dallas' for 'smart' and you are correct.

funny how dallas fans all of a sudden care about 'character'. when you hear that, it's a sure sign they are reaching.

 

[riggo]

No, in a cover 4, the safety's primary responsibility is to read the inside receiver (whether it's a wide receiver, tight end or running back) and cover him if he runs a vertical route.

which play are you talking about?


http://gqflippimp.brinkster.net/filedrop/3bigplays.wmv

see if this link works. looks like roy is beat on both plays. the first one, its his zone- if the back right is his zone. and the second one, moss just runs by with no other receiver to cover. again, safety's arent supposed to let anyone get behind them.

 

[AdamJT13]

which play are you talking about?

Both of them. Both of them were cover 4.

http://gqflippimp.brinkster.net/filedrop/3bigplays.wmv

see if this link works. looks like roy is beat on both plays. the first one, its his zone- if the back right is his zone.

It wasn't his "zone," and Cover 4 is not a straight zone coverage. If both receivers on that side run vertical routes (which they did), the cornerback and safety actually play it like man to man.

safety's arent supposed to let anyone get behind them.

That's only true in some coverage schemes (such as the prevent), not in all of them -- and not in a cover 4. If a safety is responsible for one player, he can't be worried about someone else's receiver getting "behind" him.

 

[playit12]

which play are you talking about?


http://gqflippimp.brinkster.net/filedrop/3bigplays.wmv

see if this link works. looks like roy is beat on both plays. the first one, its his zone- if the back right is his zone. and the second one, moss just runs by with no other receiver to cover. again, safety's arent supposed to let anyone get behind them.

First play Roy is coming off the inside WR on his side to help out Glenn after the ball is thrown. That sounds exactly like the cover 4 Adam explained. On the second play no one from the inside of his side came downfield on the play so Roy probably followed the deep reciever after checking off on the TE. I doubt again it was his man to cover, but he was joining on coverage it would make sense to play inside, or short, of his man since Glenn was supposed to not let Moss get behind him according to the coverage.

Again all of this talk about Roy not being a great Safety is getting silly. It's a bit like knocking Freeny because he's not a great run stuffer. Every player in the league has his strengths and weaknesses. There is not one Safety in the league that is as good a run stuffer as Roy and still covers better. It's actually a testament to his skills that he is back on routes at all. Most teams leave their FS to play the deep middle and let thier SS cover TEs or shallow middle. Because Roy, even limited, is still better in coverage than Davis Bill has used him out of position fairly often. Still... he's not a FS. Coverage is not his primary responsibility. If a pass play goes deep blame the FS, if a RB breaks deep, blame the SS.

Here is the stat that matters for your SS. While our front four is ranked 29th in the league in Adjusted Line Yardage (Football Outsiders) we are ranked 6th in the league in not giving up running plays beyond 10 yards.

Here are the 5 teams that are ranked higher than Dallas in this stat (and their Strong Safety).

1 PIT - Troy Polamalu
2 NEP - Rodney Harrison
3 TAM - Jermaine Phillips
4 CAR - Marlon McCree (Really by commitee all year with Thomas Davis)
5 DEN - Nick Ferguson (Really John Lynch even though he's listed as the FS)

Those are all good players, and they make the difference in this stat.

By the way... since Roy has been on the team here are our stats on runs of 10+ yards

2002 - 4th
2003 - 8th
2004 - 17th (The year we stopped playing interchangeable Safties and Roy was forced to play FS)
2005 - 6th

So since 2002 when Roy started the cowboys have been in the top 10 of runs 10+ yards allowed 3 of those 4 years. So I'd certainly say he's been consistently good. The only year we were not was last year, 2004, when Roy was forced to play FS.

 

[playit12]

Oh and Washington, with that stud Sean Taylor, is 32nd in the league at stopping runs past 10 yards.

Of course Sean Taylor isn't the worst Safety in the league, but it certainly highlights the difference between the FS and SS.

 

[sbuscha]

look the troll got 30 posts all from this thread...go away troll... Look up a KC fan's post they will show you what class is...

 

[AsthmaField]

ok- parcells says its not roys fault. everyone else watching a TV screen says it is.

Most will take the Head coach's opinion over some biased, armchair QB's from ExtremeSkins. Do you realize how silly you sound arguing with a hall of fame coach?

safetys arent supposed to stop WR's from getting behind them or anything.

You have trouble with comprehension. Read what Adam is telling you.

funny how dallas fans all of a sudden care about 'character'. when you hear that, it's a sure sign they are reaching.

This statement just goes to show how little you actually know about the Cowboys current roster composition. Almost every player on the 53 man squad is known for being a blue collar, hard working, high character guy.

Specifically known for character just off the top of my head and a few remarks about some of them:

*Bledsoe (Tough and good team leader)
*Tony Romo
*Drew Henson
*Lousaka Polite (First and only 3 time team captain in U of Pitt history)
*Marion Barber (Team captain and Parcells particularly spoke about his character when he drafted him)
*Julius Jones
*Rob Petitti (won starting job as a rookie because Parcells said he was an extrememly hard worker and smart)
*Al Johnson (Team captain as a senior)
*Larry Allen
*Marco Rivera
*Andre Gurode (Parcells keeps him around because of his work ethic)
*Steven Peterman
*Torrin Tucker (when asked why he was still on the roster, Parcells said it was because he was such a good kid)
*Marc Columbo
*Dan Campbell (his toughness and work ethic are well known)
*Jason Witten (Tough, mature and loves the game)
*Sean Ryan (Parcells said he drafted him because of his character and toughness)
*Patrick Crayton (Team captain and loved by Parcells for his toughness)
*Terrence Copper
*Aaron Glenn (Parcells has loved him since he coached him with the Jets)
*Terence Newman (Parcells first draft pick in Dallas, Newman was known as a hard worker who loves to play the game. Character pick all the way.)
*Anthony Henry (brought to Dallas in part because of his quiet, hard working demeanor)
*Roy Williams (Finalist for the NFL Walter Payton Man of the Year Award. Known for his high character)
*Keith Davis
*Chris Canty (All academic ACC honors)
*Marcus Spears
*Greg Ellis (Team captain at NC)
*LaRoi Glover
*Jason Ferguson (Loved by his teammates and the Jets tried desperately to keep him... in part because of what he brought to the locker room)
*Bradie James (academic all american at LSU)
*DeMarcus Ware (Troy Team Captain and He also earned leadership honors from the team.)
*Scott Fujita (first-team Academic All-Pac 10 choice as a senior)
*Scott Shanle (a two-year member of Nebraska's Unity Council)
*Ryan Fowler (Two time team captain and all academic ACC honors)
*Kevin Burnett (first two time team captain at Tenn in almost 100 years. Was a member of the SEC Academic Honor Roll in 2002 and 2003 and the SEC and American Football Coaches Association Good Works teams in 2003.)
*Lynn Scott

And I'm sure I'm forgetting some.

Even the couple of players that have had some sort of low character moments in their careers like Keyshawn Johnson and Terry Glenn have been model citizens since coming to Dallas.

Have you watched any of our games? Have you seen Keyshawn or Glenn do any extravagant celebrations after TD's? Anything to draw attention to themselves and away from the team? No. When they make a catch or a TD, they just toss the ball back to the ref and hug their teammates.

Have you seen Keyshawn block? Since coming to Dallas, he has really won me over as probably the toughest WR that I've ever seen.

Celebrations after sacks? Very little if any. This is a no nonsense team if I've ever seen one. That's one of the things I'm most proud about this team. They are pretty much one and all a quality group of people.

And that isn't by accident. That's the type of team Parcells has put together.

You're living in the past if you want to critisize Dallas for low character.

Learn what you're talking about before you speak.

 

[Taylor_Can_Hit21]

Oh and Washington, with that stud Sean Taylor, is 32nd in the league at stopping runs past 10 yards.

Of course Sean Taylor isn't the worst Safety in the league, but it certainly highlights the difference between the FS and SS.

Lol..Sean does everything that Roy does...except he is better in coverage. Roy might be a more solid tackler right now, but no way does he hit harder than Sean. Sean Taylor can lay the bricks.

 

[stilltheguru]

sure there is no way roy hits harder



sean doesnt do everything roy can do.he doesnt play the run nearly as well.tiki barber destroyed yall ESPECIALLY HIM.


i remember one time in the 36-0 beatdown he hit the juke stick button on taylor and left him in the dust.hahaha

 

[Taylor_Can_Hit21]

sure there is no way roy hits harder



sean doesnt do everything roy can do.he doesnt play the run nearly as well.tiki barber destroyed yall ESPECIALLY HIM.


i remember one time in the 36-0 beatdown he hit the juke stick button on taylor and left him in the dust.hahaha

I remember when Roy got burned by Santana Moss, and payed the coach and Glenn 200 grand to say it was Glenn's fault. Just so he wouldn't get embarrased...just plain classless.

 

[stilltheguru]

ok so basically roy is better in run support taylor is better in pass coverage.same thing most people are saying in this thread.



and the diff btw roy and sean in run support is about the same difference btw the two in pass coverage.


they are prob equal but roy is a cowboy so he goes on top."POINT BLANK"

 

[Avery]

I remember when Roy got burned by Santana Moss, and payed the coach and Glenn 200 grand to say it was Glenn's fault. Just so he wouldn't get embarrased...just plain classless.

Congratulations. Your post has made for colorful bathroom literature and emergency TP.

Moron.

 

[WilmingtonHeel]

And Taylor got beaten by Patrick Crayton you see how silly this sounds. All you skins keep talking about those two plays and if you can understand comprehension you see it wasn't Roy's fault basically what I've said in my first post. The problem is you've finally beaten us and you'll can't get over yourselves about how you've won the game. It feels good to finally beat Dallas you guys can't see the truth. Don't flatter yourself Roy is good SS there is.

 

[Taylor_Can_Hit21]

And Taylor got beaten by Patrick Crayton you see how silly this sounds. All you skins keep talking about those two plays and if you can understand comprehension you see it wasn't Roy's fault basically what I've said in my first post. The problem is you've finally beaten us and you'll can't get over yourselves about how you've won the game. It feels good to finally beat Dallas you guys can't see the truth. Don't flatter yourself Roy is good SS there is.

Yep...Roy is probably the best SS there is in the league...but guess what he is a Cowboy, it is fun to make rivalries out of anything. Sean Taylor is probably one of the best FS in the league and an up and coming star.