Could it be...

[InmanRoshi]

Roshi, could you name the hypothetical 3-4 starters in 03?

You are allowed to make any retroactive/retrospective trade you'd like..like Tony Dixon for Jame Farrior, for instance.

I'm not really concerned about the roster would have looked like in 2003, because we weren't a contender in 2003 no matter what defensive front we used. Not with Chutch and QC manning the QB helm and Troy Hambrick manning the RB position. The team defense in 2003 could have stunk out loud for all I care.

My point is what the roster would look like today if we had moved to the 3-4 in 2003?

Would we have drafted Kevin Williams or Terrell Suggs instead of Newman?

Would we have been outbid by the Cardinals for Bertrand Berry because of his lack of size?

Would we have moved up for Vince Wilfork to man the nosetackle position, and spent the money we used on Fergie to shore up another position. Would we even need to move up for Vince Wilfork in the first place, or would we have had a Top 10 pick in 2004 without the overachieving, 2003 squad?

Who knows.

But I would suggest we would be sitting in better shape today if we would have started that process then rather than deluding ourselves into thinking Ekuban was going to come around.

 

[Banned_n_austin]

And we could end up with a new coach and a little more young talent than what we had when Parcells got here, but that talent might not fit the new system. Then we spend a couple more years making the roster fit that scheme.

Chasing your tail again ...

 

[wxcpo]

His first year was just flat out terrific coaching. Getting 10 wins when handicapped with QC at QB and Hambrick at RB is pretty amazing. That was a 6 win squad in terms of talent.

Funny thing is I don't remember seeing BP out on the field running any plays. So how could a team that was a 6 win squad in terms of talent manage to win 10 games? Sure coaching makes a difference in winning and losing, but I think sometimes people give too much credit to coaches like BP. If it weren't for QC's little drug problem he would have never been cut (IMO BP's is a hypocrite also for cutting QC). We would have had a much better season last year as well, say what you want about QC he was a much better option than Interceptionverde.

I think people are so in love with BP because JJ tried for several years to manage the team through his hand picked puppets and he finally gave it up by hiring BP to coach the team. However I partially agree with Blind in the fact that I do believe that BP is more interested in winning now rather than building for the future. I am not upset with the fact that we went 6-10 last year, but I am upset that he didn't give Henson & Romo more opportunity. Then this year he brings in another old timer at QB and willprobably stick with him until the bitter end. I hope we have a much better season than last year and I am very optimistic that we will, but I think that unless we win it all in the next seaosn or 2 then we will have to start over at QB and that will take another couple of seasons.

 

[LaTunaNostra]

Well, of course, any speculation would be retroactive and retrospective, since a completely different mindset would have been in place. It would have effected everything from drafting Terrence Newman over Terrell Suggs/Kevin Williams, or how the Cowboys were unwilling the Cardinals bid for the services of Bertrand Berry the following year in free agency because he was too much of a "tweener".

But the point is what if I put together the most godawfull lineup ever imagined. What would it have changed? Its not like were going to challenge for a Superbowl next year because Parcells didn't do anything drastic when he took over.

Even had the mindset been let's go 3-4, the time it would take to resurrect a roster of that quality is three years plus. Installing a successful part time 3-4 CAN be done in a year, once you've got a few key parts in place (see '04 Jets who 'suceeded' and '04 Raiders who did not have enough pieces), but we needed too much for quick success in a 3-4.

Parcells admitted 03 was basically an evaluation year. Remember, he brought in the "three wisemen" (Coughlin, Wolf, and that ex-Pats head coach, forgot his name) in the summer to help him weed through the players. It's much harder to evaluate scrubs than stars, and if it seem like an entire year given ovet to assessment is a waste, well, it's not if you have a mindset like Bill's which is that even in the worst situations, you try to win every game.

That 10-6 season was a prime example of how every opportunity to win must be seized, and even if it's due to an early season easy schedule, you have to take whatever is given to you. Even last year's reverse was about teaching young players to never give up, as well as developing skills sets, finding the right balance of vets and young players...

This notion I see here about 'blowing it all up" is old hat, NO team can afford to blow things up anymore...you only do that when the cap blows you up.

In no way do I see the last two season as wasted, in any way, shape, or form. Expediency and flexibility are the keys to success in the NFL...the 4-3 made more sense the past two years, and a hybrid does now.

 

[Alexander]

So easily forgotten is the mess of a team Parcells inherited.

Fans wanted a disciplinarian after Dave Campo.

Now they want a push over.

Fickle, aren't we?

 

[tyke1doe]

The bigger question is what did the Cowboys, Ellis, Coakley, Quincy Carter, et. al., do BEFORE Parcells got here?
Oh, yeah, successive 5-11 seasons.

Ellis has done squat worthy of the eighth pick in the draft. Parcells took a talentless team to the playoffs after three 5-11 seasons.

Uh, my money's on Big Bill.

 

[SultanOfSix]

You guys are making a big deal out of nothing. Let's wait until training camp starts and see a few preseason games before we come to conclusions on 3-4 or 4-3, or if Greg Ellis and Parcells are at irreversible odds with each other, or if the moon is made of cheese or not...

 

[Manster68]

I don't have a problem with the 3-4 if, and it is still a big if, we have the personnel to run it.

My problem is not building for the future or trying to win now, but attempting to do both.

Blow up the defense fine, but blow it up and admit you are rebuilding, don't try to fit square pegs into round holes and call it a reduction to keep them fresh.

Do the same on offense, turn it over to the young guys and go through the growing pains in one year.

Granted BZ, Dallas will be running a 3-4 defense this season. It appears to me that Parcells has the personnel to effectively run both. Of course, that is assuming the utilization of rookies in the 3-4, but it looks like Dallas can use both defesive sets in their arsenal.

Personally, I hope Dallas uses both defensive sets throughout the season. It will just give the opponents offensive coordinators just that much more scenarios to prepare for (which should increase the opportunities for mistakes). It will aslo give the coaching staff more options and better chances to place players in the best opportunity to succeed.

I am for utilizing both defensive sets.

 

[ctalker]

Having never been a big Parcells fan to start with and recognizing him for the egomaniacal jerk that he is I would buy your analysis all the way.

Kind of sums it up for me too.

While I recognize some of his previous accomplishments. I can only go by what I see he's donw with the Cowboys. He's made some good decisions and plenty of bad decisions while he has been here. While they appear better on Paper it's too early to tell..

While I see a team that's slowly improving, I don't see us seriously challenging for a superbowl in his tenure. Sure, maybe a playoff appearance or two so he can retire without tarnishing his legend.

I think he will leave within two years. I just don't see us winning a superbowl with Bledsoe during that two year period.

He will hand over the reigns to some young groomed coach (and I don't think there is a belichick in his current staff) and leave us having to either go through the growing pains with a young QB or bring in another castoff FA QB.

Like mentioned in previous posts, I don't see a long term plan for a superbowl in his coaching tenure. Playoffs yes. Superbowl no. and once he leaves, the team will have to go through a certain amount of change.

 

[Stank]

I agree with Sultan. You guys are making a big deal out of nothing. It's understandable considering where we have been. But I have faith that Parcells will right this ship. He warned the media in 2003 when we were headed towards the playoffs that "he knows that a crisis is coming". Parcells wasn't fooled by the success of 2003 and he is not going to let 2004 be the signature of his tenure in Dallas.

 

[BigDFan5]

 

[big dog cowboy]

Fans wanted a disciplinarian after Dave Campo.

Now they want a push over.

Fickle, aren't we?

I don't think so. Does anybody really want a push over HC?

 

[Outlaw Heroes]

I'm not really concerned about the roster would have looked like in 2003, because we weren't a contender in 2003 no matter what defensive front we used. Not with Chutch and QC manning the QB helm and Troy Hambrick manning the RB position. The team defense in 2003 could have stunk out loud for all I care.

My point is what the roster would look like today if we had moved to the 3-4 in 2003?

Would we have drafted Kevin Williams or Terrell Suggs instead of Newman?

Would we have been outbid by the Cardinals for Bertrand Berry because of his lack of size?

Would we have moved up for Vince Wilfork to man the nosetackle position, and spent the money we used on Fergie to shore up another position. Would we even need to move up for Vince Wilfork in the first place, or would we have had a Top 10 pick in 2004 without the overachieving, 2003 squad?

Who knows.

But I would suggest we would be sitting in better shape today if we would have started that process then rather than deluding ourselves into thinking Ekuban was going to come around.

Well reasoned, Inman (and I agree completely). My recollection, however, is that you resisted the very same type of reasoning when many argued that Henson should be starting late last season. Is it something you have against the kid?

 

[Alexander]

I don't think so. Does anybody really want a push over HC?

I think they do, big dog.

Or they want "core Cowboys" like Greg Ellis pandered to. And it is just because he has been portrayed as a nice fellow that everyone is looking to defend him.

There is one thing that I respect Coach Parcells for and this is echoed by the players that love to play for him: he is a straight shooter.

No smoke being blown up anyone's butt. And if you are looking for that, you are probably in the wrong place anyways.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Jimmy had his players and we all knew who they were. But he was tough and a straight shooter like BP. Considering what we had in between those two, I would never want a push over. I mean, look how fast things went down hill under Switzer. Just ask Aikman.

 

[jimmy40]

Witten has been a Pro Bowler, he has never been All Pro. Different things.

However, I am not laying any blame at Parcells except perhaps last year. It was a mess through and through.

His first year was just flat out terrific coaching. Getting 10 wins when handicapped with QC at QB and Hambrick at RB is pretty amazing. That was a 6 win squad in terms of talent.

This year's offseason looks to be a success IMO. One of the best in recent memory.

I don't mind going 3-4 if it looks good in TC. I think, if it doesn't, BP won't be stubborn enough to stick with it although I am sure it is his defense of choice.

I like Henson, but he isn't ready yet. What other vet QB option was out there? The team had to have one and BP knows Bledsoe. No issue there.

Cutting Coakley? We all knew that was coming.

Other than the dubious offseason moves of last offseason, I have no issue with what BP has done in Dallas. The team is lucky to have him.

Not to take anything away from him but what exactly was that terrific coaching that Parcells did in the 10-6 year?

 

[Alexander]

Not to take anything away from him but what exactly was that terrific coaching that Parcells did in the 10-6 year?

I suppose those supreme talents like Quincy Carter and Troy Hambrick were what got the team those 10 wins?

You can blame him for a lousy coaching job last year. He made some mistakes that were patently silly with clock management and playcalling.

But in 2003, with that collection of losers, he got 10 wins. He instilled a sense of authority, discipline and order on what was basically a kindergarten class out of control. Now it appears the one of the leftovers from the kindergarten class is making some noise. He'll survive and so will the team.

 

[notherbob]

I share some of the concerns expressed in BZ's original post. BP said and did some things last year that made no sense to me and were clearly mistakes. Still I have faith in him although it's more like hope, actually.

This year will be a very telling and pivotal year. I think he will succeed. I hope he will succeed. I greatly fear a very bleak future for this team if Jerry "5-11" Jones starts calling the shots again. We don't need that.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I really do not see how people can say that Parcells does not have a plan.

You certainly may not agree with the plan but it is definitely there.

His style is obviously ball control offense and superb defense.

So far the past three years has drafted a stud CB, RB and TE that were at the top of the draft board when picked. other than that it has all been for the offensive and defensive fronts.

He will only bring in players that he trusts to buy into this team philosophy.

He has successfully made Adams and Allen, heck even Blade for a bit, buy into his philosophy while adding Johnson, Rivera, Ferguson, Peterman, Spears, Rogers, Ware, Vollers, Tucker, Pettiti, Carson and Coleman to man the trenches.

Jones and Witten have developed into stars.

What weve lost is Bryant who still has yet to be half as good as he thinks he is and Coakley who was making too much money for a smaller linebacker with diminishing skills.

Also one thing that all the antiparcells folks seem to fail to notice is what was the aftermath of Ellis pulling his stunt by missing practice?

Both Ellis and his agent state that it was a positive experince for them.

He very well could have basically tanked Ellis with the Cowboys. Instead he voiced his displeasure and then seems to have turned Ellis' mindset around.

Parcells was put into a very difficult position where one of his best defensive players showed him up in front of the team because he was unhappy. The aftermath of this ended up being good for Ellis.

People dont see this they say Parcells is the problem but Campo would have done nothing making team unity worse. Johnson would have gotten rid of him at any cost while Parcells appears to have steered Ellis back on course.

But oh yeah parcells is the problem......

 

[billknows]

well thats because you dont read your own post, these old guys as you put it have to retire and when he leaves problay leaves with him, so all these young palyers that we have can step up and start, we have to young DE/LB in spears and Ware, we have a young and hopefully good DE/DT in Canty, alont with Ratliff, and we have a great RB in JJ, and a great TE in Witten, gues who got those players Bill Parcells, to win now, you cant have your team full of rookies, And thats what BP is trying to do win now, and slowly put in the younf players, let him do his job and stop being scared of what you cannot see.

BZ , I agree w/ u most of the time, however I sense you are having a rare moment of uneasiness..let me assure you that all the above is true ,and I'll add that with our new corner situation we could lose glover and be better than last yr.
Our offense will be clicking much better and all is good, ..very good. Bill and jerry have seen thier errors and have repented ,they have worked hard and been blessed with a great offseason ,they also have gameplanned the future and are comming up roses. Last yr. seems to have been a needed fall ,,to kick in dedication and proper response to our decline. We now have seen that thier humbleness and hard work has the Cowboy's again set to be a playoff and championship team for a very long time,"We will win ,and often...

PS. If the 3-4 is not tough right off ...We will throw a bad *** 4-3 Defense out there so fast ,that it will make your head spin. Our Defense will be dominating, and Bill and Jerry will not wait on any system when it comes to competing this year , Bank It...Bill Knows...........