Could RB Chris Johnson be our WOW player?

[AsthmaField]

I still think low center of gravity, immensely strong legs and vision are the top 3 traits a RB needs.

I agree with that if you include plain old running instincts along with vision. Sounds a lot like Ray Rice to me... which is why I think he's going to do well.

Of course Eric Dickerson showed that a RB can succeed with a higher center of gravity, so I think McFadden (and Johnson too, I suppose) can be a very good back.

All else being equal, I'd rather a back have speed... but great speed definately isn't a big indicator of success at the RB position. IMO, instincts, balance, vision, toughness, heart, love of the game, etc. are more important aspects for a RB to have.

 

[jterrell]

BTW, there were 8 Pro Bowl running backs this year.

Of the 8 only Brian Westbrook was near 200 pounds. He is just a bit over 200 and made the Pro Bowl based as much on his 90 receptions as anything. His first 4 years in the league he never topped 13.6 carries per game.

The average weight of the other 7 guys was about 225 pounds.
Barber, LT, McGahee, Parker, Fred Taylor, Joseph Addai, Adrian Peterson.

 

[jterrell]

Well, while I do agree that your argument for low center of gravity, strong legs, and vision is a sound strategy, I just think some athletes can be built differently and still be successful. Sure if you are looking at a RB in the 5th round, then that strategy is a good one to follow, but when you are talking about someone that could be special, sometimes standard rules don't apply.

Fargas just simply never got a chance to perform cause of injuries and big money backs ahead of him. With someone with speed like DMac or CJ, one thing will probably be the biggest thing for them, vision. They hit the hole alot faster than most backs, matter of fact, OL know the difference between these speed backs and how long they have to hold their blocks. For a guy like Barber, they have to hold their blocks alot longer, but for a guy like those 2, they can hit the second level quicker.

But their vision is very important, cause they hit the hole so quick that they need the ability to see a hole immediately. I'm not sure about CJ, never really watched him, but I do know DMac has this type of vision that will make him successful.

I am with you there.

The vision is a bigger key the faster a player is and it makes it even harder to have the requisite vision for the position.

Most holes are not instant but have to develop. An OL has to actually seal or move a guy out of the hole for it to exists thats why a RB needs patience and vision. Emmitt would follow Moose then blast off the block with great acceleration. He had crap for speed but faster backs were on the bench behind him.

The one guy in Dallas last year who could have run a close race with CJ was Tyson Thompson. Now TT is unemployed. Because speed is really the single most overrated stat ever for a running back.

That doesn't mean all fast backs suck by any means it is just means it is a terrible indicator of NFL success and the draft classes fastest back is almost never any good.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Neither Jackson nor Walker lived up to pre-draft hype.
IMHO you are making my point for me.

But beyond that you are talking guys who weighed 30 pounds more than these guys we are discussing.

Fargas did get 1000 yards last year but he has 2000 in 5 years and plays on one of the worst teams in the league. He is not considered an NFL starter.

This is stupid. Before his hip gave out on him, Jackson was one of the most electric runners I have ever seen. He split time with baseball but it was an injury that ended his NFL career not him being anything but excellent. He held the single game rushing record for years.

Youre acting like measurables are bad to have. Oh an BTW he was excellent last year carrying the ball 20 times a game.

CJ has good quicks and vision too. Youre just hating now.

 

[jterrell]

I agree with that if you include plain old running instincts along with vision. Sounds a lot like Ray Rice to me... which is why I think he's going to do well.

Of course Eric Dickerson showed that a RB can succeed with a higher center of gravity, so I think McFadden (and Johnson too, I suppose) can be a very good back.

All else being equal, I'd rather a back have speed... but great speed definately isn't a big indicator of success at the RB position. IMO, instincts, balance, vision, toughness, heart, love of the game, etc. are more important aspects for a RB to have.

My only concern with Rice, whom I really like, is his workload. That dude carried the ball like every friggin play for years.

Dickerson was Peterson before Peterson. He was a BIG slashing back. He was very strong and while he could be tackled at the LOS by DL he could simply shrug off almost all DBs.

I do not think CJ can shrug off a TNew tackle attempt and that's right where a speed guy like that is headed, out to the CBs.

CJ plays a lot like Julius Jones but with much better hands and a higher center of gravity.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

CJ plays a lot like Julius Jones but with much better hands and a higher center of gravity.

Too bad he runs with his pads low and breaks arm tackles routinely. Have you seen this guy play or you just seeing that he had a fabulaous 40 time and assuming that must mean hes not good.

 

[heavyg]

I still think low center of gravity, immensely strong legs and vision are the top 3 traits a RB needs.

Couldnt agree more! And D-Mac only one of those.....VISION. He runs upright and has chicken legs

 

[Deep_Freeze]

I am with you there.

The vision is a bigger key the faster a player is and it makes it even harder to have the requisite vision for the position.

Most holes are not instant but have to develop. An OL has to actually seal or move a guy out of the hole for it to exists thats why a RB needs patience and vision. Emmitt would follow Moose then blast off the block with great acceleration. He had crap for speed but faster backs were on the bench behind him.

The one guy in Dallas last year who could have run a close race with CJ was Tyson Thompson. Now TT is unemployed. Because speed is really the single most overrated stat ever for a running back.

That doesn't mean all fast backs suck by any means it is just means it is a terrible indicator of NFL success and the draft classes fastest back is almost never any good.

Well, you mention the OL and holes developing, really with a speed back, he is looking more for a seam than a hole. Give a speed back a seam and he is gone. I have seen DMac just hit a small seam, when there was no real hole there at all. I haven't watched CJ enough to know if he has this ability, just highlights (can't read too much into those).

There are so many factors in a great back, we could list them all day. Patience is huge with a back built like Emmitt, you just have to give the hole time to develop. Balance is also huge with really great backs, one look at Payton or Barry would tell you this. I believe TT is a different story though, he had absolutely no vision and would seem to just run into the pile for no reason at all.

There are many, many factors that can contribute to a great back, that is why they are so hard to evaluate without alot of film.

 

[jterrell]

This is stupid. Before his hip gave out on him, Jackson was one of the most electric runners I have ever seen. He split time with baseball but it was an injury that ended his NFL career not him being anything but excellent. He held the single game rushing record for years.

Youre acting like measurables are bad to have. Oh an BTW he was excellent last year carrying the ball 20 times a game.

CJ has good quicks and vision too. Youre just hating now.

Y.a.w.n.

If you are going to say something is stupid back it up with more than hot air.

Bo Jackson had 16 career rushing TDs or the same amount of total TDs Marion Barber had in 2006. Barber has 29 rushing TDs in 3 years.

Jackson has 3 of the longest TD runs in NFL history but if you remove those rushes he did next to nothing except make some highlights and commercials. 2400 yards in 4 NFL seasons. Perception is just that, perception... it is not reality.

Backs who have few carries can and do look good in them. Jackson was always a part time guy in a day and age where RBs actually carried the load quite often.

In four seasons of part time work he averaged 13.6 carries per game.

All in all he was never the end all be all player he was labeled.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

Couldnt agree more! And D-Mac only one of those.....VISION. He runs upright and has chicken legs

He does have small legs, as most tall speed backs do. As you say, he does have great vision, but the thing that I disagree with is his pad level. In the open field he does run upright, but when he is near contact, he runs with a very, very low pad level for a guy his height. This gives him a lower center of gravity at the LOS, cause DMac does have excellent body lean and angle when faced with contact.

 

[jterrell]

Too bad he runs with his pads low and breaks arm tackles routinely. Have you seen this guy play or you just seeing that he had a fabulaous 40 time and assuming that must mean hes not good.

Watch him.... NO, I have somehow avoided the 75 youtube's linked every day by his fan club here......

The real question is how much of his check are you going to get?
How much wood do you get watching his youtubes?

He is not that good... seriously. No one ever could be.

Relax and let the guy play an NFL game.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

Dickerson was Peterson before Peterson. He was a BIG slashing back. He was very strong and while he could be tackled at the LOS by DL he could simply shrug off almost all DBs.

I have always thought of Peterson is more like Payton, but a little more coordinated.....DMac's upright running style in the open field does remind of Dickerson, although without the high leg kick. Really though, its hard to compare players to past players cause usually there are always alot of differences. Usually special players are just unique, although the qualities of Emmitt has been something that is easier to copy than most other great backs, which is why that top 3 theory has merit.

Easier to fit someone into Emmitt's qualities than Barry, Payton, Jim Brown, and such.

Y.a.w.n.

If you are going to say something is stupid back it up with more than hot air.

Bo Jackson had 16 career rushing TDs or the same amount of total TDs Marion Barber had in 2006. Barber has 29 rushing TDs in 3 years.

Jackson has 3 of the longest TD runs in NFL history but if you remove those rushes he did next to nothing except make some highlights and commercials. 2400 yards in 4 NFL seasons. Perception is just that, perception... it is not reality.

Backs who have few carries can and do look good in them. Jackson was always a part time guy in a day and age where RBs actually carried the load quite often.

In four seasons of part time work he averaged 13.6 carries per game.

All in all he was never the end all be all player he was labeled.

Jackson also had baseball and such interfering, along with the big injury. He will always be a "what if" guy, but his "if" should not be underestimated.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Y.a.w.n.

If you are going to say something is stupid back it up with more than hot air.

Bo Jackson had 16 career rushing TDs or the same amount of total TDs Marion Barber had in 2006. Barber has 29 rushing TDs in 3 years.

Jackson has 3 of the longest TD runs in NFL history but if you remove those rushes he did next to nothing except make some highlights and commercials. 2400 yards in 4 NFL seasons. Perception is just that, perception... it is not reality.

Backs who have few carries can and do look good in them. Jackson was always a part time guy in a day and age where RBs actually carried the load quite often.

In four seasons of part time work he averaged 13.6 carries per game.

All in all he was never the end all be all player he was labeled.

This is great. First its having great speed is a dteriment and now having 3 of the best runs in NFL history is a bad thing.

Did you watch Jackson actually play?

First of all he only played 9 or 10 games a year because he played with the Royals from April through September.

Second he rushed for 2800 yards on 5.4 yards per carries. Not 2400.

Third, he split carries because he played with a guy named Marcus Allen. Perhaps you have heard of him.

What is very obvious is that you have almost no knowledge of either of these players and are just spouting off.

As for CJ, I don't know what you mean by nobody can be that good. WTH are you talking about and wth are you doing talking me getting wood about anything.

I think hes a good player that would be more than just a change of pace guy. I think he could come in and carry the rock 20 times a game if Barber went down but at the same time you wouldnt want him to do it more than a few games in a row.

Hes fast agile and smart. I think he would be a good pick up just like i would think Rice or Charles would be. My issue is you spouting off babbling nonsense like having a good 40 time is a bad thing.

What you should be saying is that 40 times are good but you need more. CJ IS more than just his 40 time

 

[DaBoys4Life]

It makes no sense for me to argue with an out an out fanboy.

I'll simply post his mock up from nfldraftblitz.com
I am going to bold all the stuff you likely can not seem to understand.
We all agree the guy is fast as blazes and electric in the open field.

Inside Runner: - Possesses only average leg strength
- Does a nice job of sliding to avoid contact
- Relatively quick through the hole
- His weight makes him an average at best inside runner
Outside Runner: - Johnson has exceptional speed to the corner
- A little to quick to give up inside and bounce plays outside
- He's a major threat when running outside the tackles
Elusive Runner: - He's shown very good change or direction ability
- A creative runner who'll improvise with ease
- Change of direction ability is outstanding
- One of the more elusive runners in college football
Power Runner: - Possesses good balance as a runner
- Isn't a guy who's going to break a lot of tackles
- Doesn't go looking to punish defenders for tackling him
- Does a good enough job of falling forward
Blocker: - Stands a little to up-right when blocking
- He's nothing more then adequate in pass protection
- Doesn't go looking for someone to block, but won't shy from contact
Hands / Route Running: - Has 30+ receptions in all but one season
- A natural pass catcher who extends for the ball
- Not reckless with the ball, but he isn't immune to fumbles either
- Above average in terms of route running ability
Durability: - More of a 12-15 carry a game guy then a 20+ workhorse
- Tough enough player who won't miss much time
- Shows the ability to take a hit and get right up
Running Style: - Has a slashing type running style
- Not an overly powerful runner
- Forget a 2nd gear, he's got 3rd, 4th and 5th gears to call on
- Plays with adequate pad level
Overall: A big senior season has proved to everyone that Chris Johnson is a play-maker, plain and simple. He elevated his draft status exponentially throughout the course of the year all the while putting his world-class speed and athleticism on display. Johnson is one of the most exciting players in college football with the ball in his hands. An elusive runner, he's also dangerous out of the back-field as a pass catcher and equally so as a return man. The only real knock to be found is there will be questions about his durability given his smaller frame. His return skills boost his stock and he could be selected as early as round two.

Can me a fan boy or what ever you want it really doesn't matter and you posting this info doesn't make him look bad at all. Every one knows he can stand to gain weight at around 195 he could put on 10-15 lbs. Why would we want a 20+ work hose back we we use a 2 back system so that's not even valid and makes no sense why would we ask that out of a rookie when our starter isn't even a work horse back. Yes you have to break every tackle in order to be considered a great RB i forget this stuff. So he doesn't have the best blocking technique ok that can be taught. OMG a rookie RB isn't patient and he has speed so he breaks it to the outside a lil to early omg.


Basically all that is is random generic comments that can apply to a lot of the RB's in the draft. All i'm saying is the knocks on this guy is the same for pretty much every RB in the draft except ofr maybe Ray Rice theres no fault when it comes to him ....... anyways yea your post sounds like a very good endorsment for CJ thanks

 

[Chief]

I've read that some teams consider Chris Johnson a slot receiver, the position he played earlier in his college career ... they don't even view him as an NFL running back.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Inside Runner: - Possesses only average leg strength
- Does a nice job of sliding to avoid contact
- Relatively quick through the hole
- His weight makes him an average at best inside runner
Outside Runner: Johnson has exceptional speed to the corner
A little to quick to give up inside and bounce plays outside
- He's a major threat when running outside the tackles
Elusive Runner: - He's shown very good change or direction ability
- A creative runner who'll improvise with ease
- Change of direction ability is outstanding
- One of the more elusive runners in college football
Power Runner: - Possesses good balance as a runner
Isn't a guy who's going to break a lot of tackles
- Doesn't go looking to punish defenders for tackling him
- Does a good enough job of falling forward
Blocker: - Stands a little to up-right when blocking
- He's nothing more then adequate in pass protection
- Doesn't go looking for someone to block, but won't shy from contact
Hands / Route Running: - Has 30+ receptions in all but one season
- A natural pass catcher who extends for the ball
- Not reckless with the ball, but he isn't immune to fumbles either
- Above average in terms of route running ability
Durability: More of a 12-15 carry a game guy then a 20+ workhorse
- Tough enough player who won't miss much time
- Shows the ability to take a hit and get right up
Running Style: - Has a slashing type running style
- Not an overly powerful runner
- Forget a 2nd gear, he's got 3rd, 4th and 5th gears to call on
- Plays with adequate pad level
Overall: A big senior season has proved to everyone that Chris Johnson is a play-maker, plain and simple. He elevated his draft status exponentially throughout the course of the year all the while putting his world-class speed and athleticism on display. Johnson is one of the most exciting players in college football with the ball in his hands. An elusive runner, he's also dangerous out of the back-field as a pass catcher and equally so as a return man. The only real knock to be found is there will be questions about his durability given his smaller frame. His return skills boost his stock and he could be selected as early as round two.

its funny what bolding does.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I've read that some teams consider Chris Johnson a slot receiver, the position he played earlier in his college career ... they don't even view him as an NFL running back.

i have seen people say that but have not actually seen the quotes myself. That said at 6-0 200 lbs he is more than capable physically of handling the outside.

 

[TheCount]

I've read that some teams consider Chris Johnson a slot receiver, the position he played earlier in his college career ... they don't even view him as an NFL running back.

I think he'd could be a killer slot receiver, but he'd have to relearn the position and then learn how to play it in the NFL. Which isn't easy.

He will get drafted into the NFL as a RB though, and probably make his money as a RB.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I think he'd could be a killer slot receiver, but he'd have to relearn the position and then learn how to play it in the NFL. Which isn't easy.

He will get drafted into the NFL as a RB though, and probably make his money as a RB.

Even at RB in order to fully utilize him you would want to motion him out to the slot anyway. He did that in college. On third downs you could bring in both Barber and CJ instead of a 3rd WR. imagine him on a revers after being sent in motion. he would return kicks and would contribute immediately.

If Barber were to heaven forbid go down then Rice is the best option. hes not as versatile but you can give him the ball 18 times a game for 12 weeks if need be.

Really though i am thinking that Charles my be the best option of the three for us. hes not as proven of a workhorse as Rice is but hes a proven workhorse. hes not as versatile as CJ is but he is certainly versatile.

 

[TheCount]

Even at RB in order to fully utilize him you would want to motion him out to the slot anyway. He did that in college. On third downs you could bring in both Barber and CJ instead of a 3rd WR. imagine him on a revers after being sent in motion. he would return kicks and would contribute immediately.

If Barber were to heaven forbid go down then Rice is the best option. hes not as versatile but you can give him the ball 18 times a game for 12 weeks if need be.

Really though i am thinking that Charles my be the best option of the three for us. hes not as proven of a workhorse as Rice is but hes a proven workhorse. hes not as versatile as CJ is but he is certainly versatile.

I was high on Charles a while back, but I'm really starting to feel he might be the first of those three taken.