News: Cowboys believe Brandon Carr is better than you think

[jobberone]

Looks like we've reached the point of the offseason where the sales job starts all over again.

They couldn't get a replacement, so now Carr's "not that bad"

They missed out on several free agents but now the Chief Snake Oil Salesman wants to talk about "the numbers" we now have, as if all has gone according to their master plan.

People can decide for themselves whether they want to buy it or not.

Give it a rest Stash. Many of us have stated Carr is what he is for a long time. We didn't get a bonanza of FAs you wanted yet but there will be more than a few available as the year goes by including DBs. Landry would often pick up a cut veteran corner and make him either a CB or more often a S and get a couple of years out of them.

It is becoming more and more apparent to most that buying FAs early on is a risky and often bad investment; that's not even a new revelation either. That doesn't mean don't ever pick up a FA but be very picky about it.

You many want to consider stop beating up the club and FO over and over and wait until opening day to officially begin your wailing. Just saying.

 

[AbeBeta]

As Steven Jones said, free agency is where good players get paid as great players and he's right.

That'd be profound if it wasn't something we've known for 20 years

 

[CCBoy]

That'd be profound if it wasn't something we've known for 20 years

But sometimes, a great player shows up, and pushes a team over the top as well...

 

[jobberone]

I remember it being laid at the feet of Rob Ryan - which makes the FO look even worse. The initial contract wasnt the issue. He has been really bad to below average at best the last 2 years. Most teams move on.

I will agree there are gray areas, but time tends to fade things to white or rot them to black. Getting pretty charcoal

Ryan asked for the backend so he could work his blitzes and he got want he wanted. He failed miserably and paid the price although it wasn't all on his performance but a lot his personality as well.

I would praise the FO for giving the coaches what they wanted. If he wasn't all that then you can judge their decision to hire the guy but I give them credit for cutting loose sooner than later and moving in other directions.

Cutting Carr is not simple. You have to have a replacement. Given the problems with Claiborne's and OScan's injuries you have a problem with putting 5-7 DBs on the field who you can trust at least a little. Cut Carr and who do you have? The Safeties here are average and we haven't seen anyone step up until Jones came on board.

They are behind the eight ball and no amount of vexation will heal it. We need some players. Cutting an average or even marginal starter without a replacement is not a viable option. And this is what has kept us from dealing with Carr; that and the cap. This has nothing to do with incompetence unless you want to point fingers at what put us in the talent hole to begin with (fair AFAIC); and that appears to be in the past more than the present.

They need to outperform the rest of the league for awhile in talent acquisition and not get themselves into a cap problem (again) so they aren't hogtied when the real deal does come along.

This is frustrating for everyone but they are patiently approaching the problem as they should. People looking for a magic potion or silver bullet should heed.

 

[TheDude]

Way to take my argument and ignore it.

Nowhere did I suggest he wasn't overpaid. But you know what? You play big money FA and you end up overpaying.

People here complain that we don't spend but then don't like it when we do

I think I addressed your "warm body argument."

People dont complain at paying Tesla prices for Tesla performance, but paying Tesla prices and getting a Corolla might leave a bad taste in someones mouth. Arguing "Well, the ignition starts" doesnt change the economic mistake. You could have bought Prius, Corolla and added a new garage for the same money

 

[CCBoy]

Ryan asked for the backend so he could work his blitzes and he got want he wanted. He failed miserably and paid the price although it wasn't all on his performance but a lot his personality as well.

I would praise the FO for giving the coaches what they wanted. If he wasn't all that then you can judge their decision to hire the guy but I give them credit for cutting loose sooner than later and moving in other directions.

Cutting Carr is not simple. You have to have a replacement. Given the problems with Claiborne's and OScan's injuries you have a problem with putting 5-7 DBs on the field who you can trust at least a little. Cut Carr and who do you have? The Safeties here are average and we haven't seen anyone step up until Jones came on board.

They are behind the eight ball and no amount of vexation will heal it. We need some players. Cutting an average or even marginal starter without a replacement is not a viable option. And this is what has kept us from dealing with Carr; that and the cap. This has nothing to do with incompetence unless you want to point fingers at what put us in the talent hole to begin with (fair AFAIC); and that appears to be in the past more than the present.

They need to outperform the rest of the league for awhile in talent acquisition and not get themselves into a cap problem (again) so they aren't hogtied when the real deal does come along.

This is frustrating for everyone but they are patiently approaching the problem as they should. People looking for a magic potion or silver bullet should heed.

In the Far East, silver bullets cured something else...

 

[Idgit]

You do know LBs lead this team in INTs most every year? It isnt all on the pass rush, the DBs cant catch (think Atlanta, NY, NO, games etc.).

We've got real issues on defense still. It drives me nuts we're still talking about it 5 years later. And I don't even have a good sense as to what caused the anemic takeaway numbers last year. -22 overall. That's a 42 turnover differential between us and CAR last year. It's staggering.

And here we are in the offseason, arguing about RBs and play calling so much of the time.

 

[CCBoy]

We've got real issues on defense still. It drives me nuts we're still talking about it 5 years later. And I don't even have a good sense as to what caused the anemic takeaway numbers last year. -22 overall. That's a 42 turnover differential between us and CAR last year. It's staggering.

And here we are in the offseason, arguing about RBs and play calling so much of the time.

Some of us have been buzzing about defensive linemen, and second & third level play makers for some time now...Ramsey with Jones as the up top umbrella, a linebacker, and a stout defensive end would do a ton at stabilizing this defense. That's only three players and a huge improvement.

True playmakers at linebacker are tough to get outside of the first round...

 

[jobberone]

We've got real issues on defense still. It drives me nuts we're still talking about it 5 years later. And I don't even have a good sense as to what caused the anemic takeaway numbers last year. -22 overall. That's a 42 turnover differential between us and CAR last year. It's staggering.

And here we are in the offseason, arguing about RBs and play calling so much of the time.

You got it. It's why I try to stick to the big picture so much.

Offense 25+ PPG. Romo healthy, a few tweaks and maybe a couple of players we might be 30+. No problemo.

Defense 17-20PPG. A real problem IMO. Pass pressure, pass defense and TOs are the keys. And those are problematic!

 

[Idgit]

Some of us have been buzzing about defensive linemen, and second & third level play makers for some time now...Ramsey with Jones as the up top umbrella, a linebacker, and a stout defensive end would do a ton at stabilizing this defense. That's only three players and a huge improvement.

I never understand why we give the defense a pass. Rob Ryan was a stupid fat idiot from day one. It was obvious. I have no idea how that guy became teflon somehow. Kiffin was a big mistake--and a weird hire--right from the start. We lack defensive talent, and it's cost us the playoffs (and kept us from advancing in the playoffs in 2014), yet we don't seem to want to talk about it much. It's bizarre.

 

[TheDude]

Ryan asked for the backend so he could work his blitzes and he got want he wanted. He failed miserably and paid the price although it wasn't all on his performance but a lot his personality as well.

I would praise the FO for giving the coaches what they wanted. If he wasn't all that then you can judge their decision to hire the guy but I give them credit for cutting loose sooner than later and moving in other directions.

That is one way to look at it. In a vacuum, it seems reasonable. However, if you look at all the churning of coaches, schemes, players and results, I cant wrap my had around they saw an issue an cut bait. Ryan got 1 season with Carr and Claiborne. They invested MASSIVELY on 2 CBs that a COACH wanted and then cut bait and changed schemes to Kiffin, then Marinelli - both who took press corners and made them play 10 yards off and zone. Even, if that can be justified, how do you justify a slob like Ryan being able to make those calls THROUGH the HC and usurping any player personell groups or scouts. Coaches watch very little tape and they didnt even bring in Claiborne for a visit, which seemed like a last minute decision to make news. Ryan, in fairness, cannot hang for that. The coach and GM hang for that. The coach is lauded as a culture changer and the Mo trade, if laid at his DC, is no way to run a draft.

Cutting Carr is not simple. You have to have a replacement. Given the problems with Claiborne's and OScan's injuries you have a problem with putting 5-7 DBs on the field who you can trust at least a little. Cut Carr and who do you have? The Safeties here are average and we haven't seen anyone step up until Jones came on board.

They are behind the eight ball and no amount of vexation will heal it. We need some players. Cutting an average or even marginal starter without a replacement is not a viable option. And this is what has kept us from dealing with Carr; that and the cap. This has nothing to do with incompetence unless you want to point fingers at what put us in the talent hole to begin with (fair AFAIC); and that appears to be in the past more than the present.

Preaching to the choir about safeties. I've listed the crap they trotted out since Woodson left and it has been laughable. Since 2003 they have been in the top half of Opp Passer Rating 3 times. 2 with Parcells and 1 with Wade. There is something fundamentally wrong in evaluating the secondary. Meanwhile, you have NE who can develop anyone into a serviceable QB. The issue is not wanting to purge Carr forever, but paying that price and getting the similar production from street FAs cant be denied. If Carr wasnt here, then it likely would have been an easier sell for Caroll, Robinson, etc. Or if he was released and signed lower -even better. Status quo at 9M - I cant justify.

They put themselves behind the 8ball. You say they ripped off the bandaid with Ryan, but fail to do so with Carr last year.

They need to outperform the rest of the league for awhile in talent acquisition and not get themselves into a cap problem (again) so they aren't hogtied when the real deal does come along.

This is frustrating for everyone but they are patiently approaching the problem as they should. People looking for a magic potion or silver bullet should heed.

I just dont think the 'wait it out" is a great strategy when you are in the last years of your $100M franchise QB. If so, you trade or release Romo. Philly purged their mistakes fast. Others have done similar. But that is a different discussion.

 

[Idgit]

You got it. It's why I try to stick to the big picture so much.

Offense 25+ PPG. Romo healthy, a few tweaks and maybe a couple of players we might be 30+. No problemo.

Defense 17-20PPG. A real problem IMO. Pass pressure, pass defense and TOs are the keys. And those are problematic!

It's the other half of the pancake. And the more fun side, honestly. I love it when we've got a devastating defense. It makes the games so much more fun to watch when you're not constantly worried that no lead is really big enough.

 

[jobberone]

I never understand why we give the defense a pass. Rob Ryan was a stupid fat idiot from day one. It was obvious. I have no idea how that guy became teflon somehow. Kiffin was a big mistake--and a weird hire--right from the start. We lack defensive talent, and it's cost us the playoffs (and kept us from advancing in the playoffs in 2014), yet we don't seem to want to talk about it much. It's bizarre.

It's only bizarre if you are focusing on the wrong 'problems' which many are. And I'm not saying the offense doesn't need some work. It just pales beside the problems on defense.

 

[Idgit]

That is one way to look at it. In a vacuum, it seems reasonable. However, if you look at all the churning of coaches, schemes, players and results, I cant wrap my had around they saw an issue an cut bait. Ryan got 1 season with Carr and Claiborne. They invested MASSIVELY on 2 CBs that a COACH wanted and then cut bait and changed schemes to Kiffin, then Marinelli - both who took press corners and made them play 10 yards off and zone. Even, if that can be justified, how do you justify a slob like Ryan being able to make those calls THROUGH the HC and usurping any player personell groups or scouts. Coaches watch very little tape and they didnt even bring in Claiborne for a visit, which seemed like a last minute decision to make news. Ryan, in fairness, cannot hang for that. The coach and GM hang for that. The coach is lauded as a culture changer and the Mo trade, if laid at his DC, is no way to run a draft..

We blew the first two DC hires, no doubt about it.
I do believe the team, though, when they explained why the made the move away from Ryan and back to the 4-3. It coincided with the CBA. We'd just had a season where we were pulling Safeties off the street and playing them the next week in a complicated defense that we ended up having to dumb down to accommodate the replacement players. That was a problem. The new CBA was another problem, as it restricted workouts. We made the strategic decision to go with a simplified scheme, back to the 4-3, and to put the emphasis on technique and acquiring personnel (theoretically). This way we could more easily replace players in a simpler scheme. And it was a defense that emphasized takeaways, which was an obvious requirement. We were also nearing a position where changing the front made sense from a contract standpoint.

That's not an excuse for the mistake in going with Ryan in the first place. It was a dumb mistake. Same with Kiffin. I've said before that the botched defensive start set us back 3 years, and probably kept us from advancing in the playoffs v. GB. Had we been two years farther along with the fixes on that side of the ball, who knows what might have happened, but it's reasonable to think we'd probably be a bit better than we were at that point.

 

[CCBoy]

I never understand why we give the defense a pass. Rob Ryan was a stupid fat idiot from day one. It was obvious. I have no idea how that guy became teflon somehow. Kiffin was a big mistake--and a weird hire--right from the start. We lack defensive talent, and it's cost us the playoffs (and kept us from advancing in the playoffs in 2014), yet we don't seem to want to talk about it much. It's bizarre.

Ryans are something else. His selection process at Dallas was not something set in stone.

The offense had it's base set in Jason Garrett and he took the lead during the lockout and assault by the Giant Owner led NFL.

Now is year three with Marinelli. This season and next should be all that it takes for Marinelli's people to take the front. This is a very important draft for the defensive side of the ball. I hope the team doesn't lean back to ink Hardy again. Three people are what this defense needs...and every one of that group: SS, DE, and SLB.

I would take a pass and accept Jack, to gain a playmaker at linebacker, even. One can hit at safety and defensive end a little later, than 4 if needed. I would even be tempted to throw in a prominent pick next draft, to gain my three in this one. That or a similar pick with a player traded.

 

[Idgit]

It's only bizarre if you are focusing on the wrong 'problems' which many are. And I'm not saying the offense doesn't need some work. It just pales beside the problems on defense.

I mean it's bizarre that we focus on the wrong problem when a bigger problem is so obvious.

I *think* it happens because we have an offensive HC and a QB who really is capable of keeping us in games by playing crazy-good so much of the time. We see Romo fall just short time and time again and blame the offense, when the reality is he shouldn't have to be in all of those situations. But I don't know. We don't give up a ton of big plays on defense, either, I guess. But still. How many times do you have to get poked in the left eye before you realize the finger-jab is probably not coming from the right side again?

 

[CCBoy]

I mean it's bizarre that we focus on the wrong problem when a bigger problem is so obvious.

I *think* it happens because we have an offensive HC and a QB who really is capable of keeping us in games by playing crazy-good so much of the time. We see Romo fall just short time and time again and blame the offense, when the reality is he shouldn't have to be in all of those situations. But I don't know. We don't give up a ton of big plays on defense, either, I guess. But still. How many times do you have to get poked in the left eye before you realize the finger-jab is probably not coming from the right side again?

Up until now, I think the problem was in the makeup that kept the team, simply, from finishing the fourth quarter in games and taking head on the black 'n blue month of December and gaining momentum.

At the core of this, as you state, the lack of defensive depth and top end strength.

 

[TheDude]

But would it have had a positive effect in the locker room, film room, or field? If I'm a GM I don't give two "you know what's" about fan base perception". As famously said "If you start listening to fans, soon you'll be sitting with them".

Fotunately our GM never has to worry about that.. competitive advantage

 

[TheDude]

We've got real issues on defense still. It drives me nuts we're still talking about it 5 years later. And I don't even have a good sense as to what caused the anemic takeaway numbers last year. -22 overall. That's a 42 turnover differential between us and CAR last year. It's staggering.

And here we are in the offseason, arguing about RBs and play calling so much of the time.

Can only like this post once - deserves more

 

[CCBoy]

That is one way to look at it. In a vacuum, it seems reasonable. However, if you look at all the churning of coaches, schemes, players and results, I cant wrap my had around they saw an issue an cut bait. Ryan got 1 season with Carr and Claiborne. They invested MASSIVELY on 2 CBs that a COACH wanted and then cut bait and changed schemes to Kiffin, then Marinelli - both who took press corners and made them play 10 yards off and zone. Even, if that can be justified, how do you justify a slob like Ryan being able to make those calls THROUGH the HC and usurping any player personell groups or scouts. Coaches watch very little tape and they didnt even bring in Claiborne for a visit, which seemed like a last minute decision to make news. Ryan, in fairness, cannot hang for that. The coach and GM hang for that. The coach is lauded as a culture changer and the Mo trade, if laid at his DC, is no way to run a draft.


Preaching to the choir about safeties. I've listed the crap they trotted out since Woodson left and it has been laughable. Since 2003 they have been in the top half of Opp Passer Rating 3 times. 2 with Parcells and 1 with Wade. There is something fundamentally wrong in evaluating the secondary. Meanwhile, you have NE who can develop anyone into a serviceable QB. The issue is not wanting to purge Carr forever, but paying that price and getting the similar production from street FAs cant be denied. If Carr wasnt here, then it likely would have been an easier sell for Caroll, Robinson, etc. Or if he was released and signed lower -even better. Status quo at 9M - I cant justify.

They put themselves behind the 8ball. You say they ripped off the bandaid with Ryan, but fail to do so with Carr last year.



I just dont think the 'wait it out" is a great strategy when you are in the last years of your $100M franchise QB. If so, you trade or release Romo. Philly purged their mistakes fast. Others have done similar. But that is a different discussion.

Simply, there is no right way to do the wrong thing...last year's gamble was Hardy. He didn't return to talent levels. Sometimes, that is what one gets in investing in a potential return and not just having funds to land an expensive but current star.

The team is investing now, correctly. And have been doing so, the past four seasons.

When one does as he should, and invest in strong draft picks, sometimes they have to do some growing up as well. If Gregory didn't have a troubled past, he wouldn't have been a Cowboy. But his potential is still here. He needs to make some major growth and become an adult now. But that hasn't arrived on the plate yet, as well.

If and when he arrives up to bat, then a safety and a playmaking linebacker are the biggest missing links for a strong producing defense, right now. Not nearly as dire a picture, as wailing about potential that is compared to a desert. All of those kinds of snap shots will strictly be lost in the desert to begin with...but not really a practical assessment of what is there to be worked with. Problems just don't have to last for ever, when individually they can be solved without additional changes.

Get Lawrence and Gregory up to speed, and match Jones at safety, and things already advance quite a bit...and that isn't wailing at a wall with ashcloth and ashes.