News: Cowboys believe Brandon Carr is better than you think

[Teague31]

NY had no problems making Cruz take a pay cut but we can't with Carr? Might as well let the inmates run the asylum

 

[AbeBeta]

I dont even know what to make of this post its everywhere? THe OPPR hasnt been in the top half of the league since 2007. Carr has provided basically nothing but an expensive warm body.

I dont even know if you are being serious to say we are lucky to have a warm body and should be thankful all it cost was $50M. The Mo pick was solidifying our first in the stupid sweepstakes. The ROI on that offseason is completely negative and has contributed mightily to killing valuable Romo years.

No GM in the league would have survived that 2012 offseason.

Yes. Look just at the OPPR.

We all know that playing DB is strictly a one-on-one thing. Nothing happening on the defense (or the offense for that matter) makes a difference in that.

Some of you folks and your fantasy statistics. You've got the fantasy #s but not any sort of real statistical understanding of what they mean.

 

[TheDude]

Yes. Look just at the OPPR.

We all know that playing DB is strictly a one-on-one thing. Nothing happening on the defense (or the offense for that matter) makes a difference in that.

Some of you folks and your fantasy statistics. You've got the fantasy #s but not any sort of real statistical understanding of what they mean.

Right....so address nothing and support everything the team does. how do you think that $50M investment (+ Mo) worked out? If you ran a project at work that invested $60-$70M and got sub industry mean returns, how would that pan out. So far your response is "Warm body, he's there, Im thankful." And, while it is something - it is kind of embarrassing.

If he is cut June 1, I cant wait for the "He was an expensive warm body. good thing he is cut -wasnt worth the money."

Everything is boiled down to market clearing prices. Carr is fine as a #2 at 3-4M per year. He isnt that. So he accounts for below investment returns.


Think of it this way - you bought stock A at $1000 4 years ago and it has returned between -0.05 and + 0.05% per year. You consider to hold it because "hey -I already own it"

Are you going on record that if he were cut last year or this year he would have been paid >$10M per year by another team looking for a CB with a pulse?

 

[Nightman]

Right....so address nothing and support everything the team does. how do you think that $50M investment (+ Mo) worked out? If you ran a project at work that invested $60-$70M and got sub industry mean returns, how would that pan out. So far your response is "Warm body, he's there, Im thankful." And, while it is something - it is kind of embarrassing.

If he is cut June 1, I cant wait for the "He was an expensive warm body" good thing he is cut wasnt worth the money.

Everything is boiled down to market clearing prices. Carr is fine as a #2 at 3-4M per year. He isnt that. So he accounts for below investment returns.


Think of it this way - you bought stock A at $1000 4 years ago and it has returned between -0.05 and + 0.05% per year. You consider to hold it because "hey -I already own it"

Are you going on record that if he were cut last year or this year he would have been paid >$10M per year by another team looking for a CB with a pulse?

And you could have sold it 2 years ago and recouped 50% of your loss.

But you didn't because you couldn't decide on any other stock in the world to invest in.

 

[TheDude]

And you could have sold it 2 years ago and recouped 50% of your loss.

But you didn't because you couldn't decide on any other stock in the world to invest in.

Exactly, I had something similar written but figured I would save for a retort. Yours woudl have been a better lead in because the return was negative 40-50%.

But I rolled with his warm body is worth $50M

 

[ElGatoGrande]

Like right tackle.

I'll second that as well... having a strong RT would open up the running game big time and might save Romo's life.

 

[DenCWBY]

Carr: He's overpaid, provides no defensive leadership, tackles poorly, he's an ok cover guy, makes few if any plays at his position including pics. The opposition has no regard for him and good QB's/receivers pretty much own him on game day if they need to go his direction.
On the positive side he stays healthy, shows up on time for practice and is a trouble free locker room teammate that I can see.
Wait, I pretty much just described Claiborne as well with exception to staying healthy.
Perhaps I'm being rough on them both and a consistently effective pass rush may cover up some of their flaws?
Question is; Is it easier to find a good pass rush or good corners in this draft because I don't think we're going to find both.

 

[TheDude]

If only there was a benchmark to what other teams would have done....

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000...ortland-finnegan-must-play-up-to-big-contract

 

[CCBoy]

Like right tackle.

I would gladly accept a number of offensive tackles in this draft. Starting with Tunsil.

 

[CCBoy]

There's not really a such thing as a "great tackler" at cornerback in the NFL.

For me, put a great umbrella behind them and let them fight it out near the line of scrimmage.

 

[conner01]

Carr absolutely has to take a pay cut or be released, it's a matter of principle at this point.

If he's playing on his full salary and so is Church, our front office is, for the lack of a better term, really stupid.

The fat lady hasn't sung yet but having the songbird Broaddus come out and speak about how totally important Carr is to this defense is funny. He's an average CB who stays healthy. He's a good guy in the community but he's not some crazy talented CB that is essential for any defense.

Just cut him sounds good but until you have someone to replace him it's just talk
If we get lucky and a CB falls to the second round we may be in a position to cut him but the reality is we aren't right now

 

[jnday]

This is a perfect summation of Carr's situation. But it appears some posters have taken his salary personally.

I take the fact that he never gets an interception or makes a big play personally . He is average in coverage at best and he would be the topic of jokes by Cowboy fans if he played for a division rival. Other than that, I think he is a great CB. He deserves a big bonus every year for the extremely low price the team pays for his production .

 

[BigStar]

I would gladly accept a number of offensive tackles in this draft. Starting with Tunsil.

4 1st rounders? We're lucky to have gotten Collins as an UDFA but that is too much $/high of a pick to justify. Free is the weak link (has been for awhile) but need to see if Green/draft pick can force the team to move on from him. Half (eye test) of Romo's improvised roll outs are on Free.

 

[Alexander]

Cowboys believe Brandon Carr is better than you think

Todd Archer
ESPN Staff Writer

IRVING, Texas -- Brandon Carr is still standing.

First, the Dallas Cowboys brought in Nolan Carroll for a free-agent visit but had health concerns regarding him. He ended up re-signing with the Philadelphia Eagles. Then the Cowboys brought in Leon Hall for a visit, but there are health worries there too.

The strangest saga involved Patrick Robinson. The Cowboys thought they had a deal agreed upon then were informed Robinson had a different agent upon his visit to Valley Ranch. He then met with the Indianapolis Colts and signed with them.

That the Cowboys did not sign any of these cornerbacks has some alarmed that their favorite team has lost their luster. However, would signing any of these three severely impacted Super Bowl odds?

The biggest winner in this is Carr. Even if the Cowboys had signed Carroll, Hall or Robinson, it was no given Carr would have been jettisoned.

The Cowboys want Carr to re-work his contract, which calls for him to make $9.1 million this year. There have been talks with his agent, Ben Dogra. Determining Carr's worth on the open market is a sticking point. With the way deals have come down across the league so far, Carr is in the $5-6 million range.

The Cowboys know a team would sign him to a deal quickly. That is why they didn't press the pay cut last year. They also know they don't have a replacement for him yet and it was no guarantee those aforementioned corners would have replaced him.

Here's what Jason Garrett had to say from the owners meetings when asked if the visits with Carroll, Hall and Robinson were in relation to Carr:

"I think you have to be careful about making those assessments. The biggest thing we're trying to do is help our football team. We've tried to target some different guys and, again, we want to be disciplined throughout the process. You get a chance to bring players in and evaluate them and see if they fit, see if they fit for a lot of different reasons. You get to know them as people. You continue your evaluation of them as players. You evaluate how old they are, what their medical is, all the different things that go into signing a player. You can't have enough cover guys in this league. There are a lot of really good quarterbacks in this league. There are a lot of really good receivers. Offenses challenge you a lot of different ways in the passing game. You need a lot of guys out there covering these guys. It's always been a position that we've valued."
http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/cowboys

 

[Carson]

Aka ... We lost out on our guys and now we're stuck with a guy who hasn't have a pick in forever!

 

[AbeBeta]

Right....so address nothing and support everything the team does. how do you think that $50M investment (+ Mo) worked out? If you ran a project at work that invested $60-$70M and got sub industry mean returns, how would that pan out. So far your response is "Warm body, he's there, Im thankful." And, while it is something - it is kind of embarrassing.

If he is cut June 1, I cant wait for the "He was an expensive warm body. good thing he is cut -wasnt worth the money."

Everything is boiled down to market clearing prices. Carr is fine as a #2 at 3-4M per year. He isnt that. So he accounts for below investment returns.


Think of it this way - you bought stock A at $1000 4 years ago and it has returned between -0.05 and + 0.05% per year. You consider to hold it because "hey -I already own it"

Are you going on record that if he were cut last year or this year he would have been paid >$10M per year by another team looking for a CB with a pulse?

Way to take my argument and ignore it.

Nowhere did I suggest he wasn't overpaid. But you know what? You play big money FA and you end up overpaying.

People here complain that we don't spend but then don't like it when we do

 

[casmith07]

Ok good enough tackler. And there are teams that have DBs who can tackle and their defense benefits greatly from it. A great coach once said that football was essentially a game of blocking and tackling. A bit simple but I get the concept.

Seattle integrates their CBs into the run game as an essential ingredient. I use them as a successful agent of the concept which is really as old as the game. It's nothing really ingenious other than teams compromised in the attempt to get shutdown corners who were too fragile to cover and tackle without getting hurt.....ie Deion.

Hence my insistence we change our angle of acquisition to DBs who are long and physical and can tackle as well as cover. Those guys do exist and they generally aren't found in the first rounds although that is changing. Jones is an example of a guy who can tackle and cover and has the length and physicality to go with it.

Yeah I can agree with that somewhat. There certainly are poor tacklers, though. Most NFL DBs are poor tacklers.

 

[skinsscalper]

NY had no problems making Cruz take a pay cut but we can't with Carr? Might as well let the inmates run the asylum

You mean the same Cruz that didn't play a down of football last year and is iffy to even start this season? You don't say? Dumb argument is dumb.

 

[Stash]

Looks like we've reached the point of the offseason where the sales job starts all over again.

They couldn't get a replacement, so now Carr's "not that bad"

They missed out on several free agents but now the Chief Snake Oil Salesman wants to talk about "the numbers" we now have, as if all has gone according to their master plan.

People can decide for themselves whether they want to buy it or not.

 

[skinsscalper]

Looks like we've reached the point of the offseason where the sales job starts all over again.

They couldn't get a replacement, so now Carr's "not that bad"

They missed out on several free agents but now the Chief Snake Oil Salesman wants to talk about "the numbers" we now have, as if all has gone according to their master plan.

People can decide for themselves whether they want to buy it or not.

Honestly, I didn't see Robinson as any type of upgrade over Carr to begin with. Would he have been cheaper? Sure. But if you aren't actually upgrading the position, why bother?