Cowboys (McCarthy) 2 scoring offense, Chargers (Moore) 8 scoring offense

TheMarathonContinues

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yeah, to me complimentary football is not taking ridiculous risks that put another part of your team in a very difficult situation. ie, don't go for it on 4th & 5 from your own 35 when you have every reason to believe you can punt & have the opponent starting inside their 20. Or have your D focus on not giving up chunk plays. Maybe the opponent will move the ball but force them to execute, sustain a drive, avoid penalties. When the field shrinks you can become more aggressive.
I agree. I don’t think this team frowns upon hitting Lamb on a slant that goes for 50 yards in fear of scoring too fast. The objective is to score and like you said be smart.
 

blueblood70

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I don’t think it was terrible I think it lacked red zone efficiency. But I don’t think it’s sustainable. You at some point have to stretch the field especially if your run game is providing nothing.
You're correct and some of these dudes I'm not even gonna respond to calling it terrible I mean it's ridiculous to say that it was execution issues wasn't really the play call it was the execution there was a lot of drop passes there were some penalties called some not called I mean when you drop passes and you have problems running the correct route or you're not on the same page with the quarterback or you have the referee get involved it makes things look a little disjointed but it was never terrible it was probably it was ranked what around 15 maybe 16 but they weren't even trying... I mean did those two losses did it really matter if the offense was clicking if the defense wasn't stopping anybody we weren't gonna win those games..

It's been one of the hottest years ever we're either blowing people out or we're getting blown out it it is been that way for the entire team offense defense special teams and coaching...

We're gonna find out if this little two game spurt is an anomaly or it's gonna continue against Philadelphia we get our second chance this year to make a statement game our identity for 2023 would be beating the Eagles on the road... I mean I know we can probably beat them at home we'll probably split anyway but this would go a long way to shut fans up and give the team confidence will be three wins in a row and feel like you're actually building something..
 

charron

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I don’t think it was terrible I think it lacked red zone efficiency. But I don’t think it’s sustainable. You at some point have to stretch the field especially if your run game is providing nothing.
Something was off. And I too hope that dak throwing a little further downfield helps open up lanes for the runners cause it's been slow going for pollard this year.
 

RonnieT24

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It is stupid. The fundamental ideology of complimentary football is that "scoring fewer points is better."
First.. the word is "complementary. Complimentary means saying nice things about someone or some thing. Second, you have completely whiffed on the "fundamental ideology" of complementary football. It is not that "scoring fewer points is better" rather it is that "scoring points while limiting the opponent's ability to score points is better."
 

Mac_MaloneV1

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First.. the word is "complementary. Complimentary means saying nice things about someone or some thing. Second, you have completely whiffed on the "fundamental ideology" of complementary football. It is not that "scoring fewer points is better" rather it is that "scoring points while limiting the opponent's ability to score points is better."
Whatever.

"Scoring points while limiting the opponent's ability" means being willing to score fewer points. It is the ideology that scoring 24 points in 20 minutes of possession is better than scoring 28 points in 15 minutes of possession. It also ignores the fact that the best way to limit opponents' scoring ability is to play with a lead. It is stupid.

If it was such an obviously better way to play, there would be a huge body of distinctive, tangible evidence to support it. But it doesn't exist. You conveniently ignore the LAC vs. Miami game, but nobody can offer good examples of when it works. The teams who try to play this way - like the Titans - have no history of success with it. Most of them are terrible.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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You're correct and some of these dudes I'm not even gonna respond to calling it terrible I mean it's ridiculous to say that it was execution issues wasn't really the play call it was the execution there was a lot of drop passes there were some penalties called some not called I mean when you drop passes and you have problems running the correct route or you're not on the same page with the quarterback or you have the referee get involved it makes things look a little disjointed but it was never terrible it was probably it was ranked what around 15 maybe 16 but they weren't even trying... I mean did those two losses did it really matter if the offense was clicking if the defense wasn't stopping anybody we weren't gonna win those games..

It's been one of the hottest years ever we're either blowing people out or we're getting blown out it it is been that way for the entire team offense defense special teams and coaching...

We're gonna find out if this little two game spurt is an anomaly or it's gonna continue against Philadelphia we get our second chance this year to make a statement game our identity for 2023 would be beating the Eagles on the road... I mean I know we can probably beat them at home we'll probably split anyway but this would go a long way to shut fans up and give the team confidence will be three wins in a row and feel like you're actually building something..
Yeah honestly it was more so the execution like you said. Maybe Mike was feeling things out. He should know his teams strength by now.
 

Sydla

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Oh boy, please tell me RonnieT isn't going to start defending McCarthy now.
 

RonnieT24

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Whatever.

"Scoring points while limiting the opponent's ability" means being willing to score fewer points. It is the ideology that scoring 24 points in 20 minutes of possession is better than scoring 28 points in 15 minutes of possession. It also ignores the fact that the best way to limit opponents' scoring ability is to play with a lead. It is stupid.

If it was such an obviously better way to play, there would be a huge body of distinctive, tangible evidence to support it. But it doesn't exist. You conveniently ignore the LAC vs. Miami game, but nobody can offer good examples of when it works. The teams who try to play this way - like the Titans - have no history of success with it. Most of them are terrible.
Every team Bill Parcells coached played that way.. He was moderately successful everywhere he went. Also to your point about 24 points in 20 minutes vs 28 points in 15. If the scoring 28 points in 15 minutes leaves your defense worn out and the other team overruns them later in the game. If you're playing against a team that is just as good or better on offense then absolutely just trying to beat them in a track meet is sheer folly. Also if you play a team with a good defense you aint scorin 28 points in 15 minutes and if you continue to operate like you are then you keep handing the ball back to the other team's offense before your defense can even get Gatorade.
 

Mac_MaloneV1

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Every team Bill Parcells coached played that way.. He was moderately successful everywhere he went. Also to your point about 24 points in 20 minutes vs 28 points in 15. If the scoring 28 points in 15 minutes leaves your defense worn out and the other team overruns them later in the game. If you're playing against a team that is just as good or better on offense then absolutely just trying to beat them in a track meet is sheer folly. Also if you play a team with a good defense you aint scorin 28 points in 15 minutes and if you continue to operate like you are then you keep handing the ball back to the other team's offense before your defense can even get Gatorade.
Bill Parcells hasn't coached in almost 20 years lol. Nothing he did is relevant today.

You're literally making my point, saying that fewer points is better because it lets your defense get Gatorade lol. Your logic is it's better to get 3 on a long drive than score 7 quick.

Trying to win a track meet is what you have to do because good offenses are always going to score. We are talking about KM - acknowledge the Miami game. It undermines your entire point.
 

conner01

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Complimentary football is stupid. I'd rather score more.

That said, McCarthy has gone so conservative in some of the blowouts that it's pretty impossible to realistically compare the two.

I don't know how you blame KM for something like the Miami loss lol
I think you need something in between. It’s foolish taking chances on every drive when you have an elite defense. It’s just as foolish to get so conservative as MM has at times. They did open it up a bit this eeek and should continue, you can actually have bith safe, quick routes and down the field routes on the same play and Mike needs to do that. And keep moving lamb around so it’s hard to double or jam him
 

RonnieT24

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Bill Parcells hasn't coached in almost 20 years lol. Nothing he did is relevant today.

You're literally making my point, saying that fewer points is better because it lets your defense get Gatorade lol. Your logic is it's better to get 3 on a long drive than score 7 quick.

Trying to win a track meet is what you have to do because good offenses are always going to score. We are talking about KM - acknowledge the Miami game. It undermines your entire point.
You're making your own point since I have never said anything of the kind. Scoring is good.. scoring while beating down the opposing defense and keeping the opposing offense on the sideline is better. If you disagree then fine. You're not changing my mind about that. You keep arguing against a silly straw man about fewer points being better. My argument is about having the ball more WHILE scoring points. You keep wanting to pretend not to understand that.

You don't like the Parcells example then go look at how Pete Carroll coaches. or look at how the Broncos won their Super Bowl AFTER Manning's arm fell off. Or how the Giants won two Super Bowls with Eli at the helm. Or even look at the 49ers the last several years. Playing smash mouth football backed by good defense seems to be working for them. Or how about the Rams the year they went to the Super Bowl after running over us. Plenty of teams have had success eschewing the track meet approach. Certainly more than the teams that sling it around 65-70% of the time. For all the accolades they heap on Tom Brady they never mention that he had a top 5 defense for nearly the entirety of his run there. Including the #1 defense like 7 or 8 times. Complementary football worked out just fine in New England. We all know what happened when they went away from it and tried to light up the scoreboard ... It took getting to the Super Bowl and facing a "complementary" team but they found that no matter how good your offense is you will eventually come across a defense that can stop it.

I did some research a couple of years back and found that over a 20 year span the Super Bowl had featured two teams with top 10 rushing attacks like 18 or 19 of the 20. Things have gotten wonky the last couple of years after Covid because I think KC has bucked that trend in at least two of their Super Bowl runs and I think the Pats did on their last Super Bowl run. You say teams that play complementary football have no history of success.. The facts say you're wrong.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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Yes, you rely on being good in all 3 phases. That's every team in the history of football. There's nothing complimentary about that. Those three units can all act independent of each other and do that. I only referenced the Chiefs because you brought up teams that win Super Bowls and they've done it more than anyone recently.

Complimentary means that the units play off of each other. And the way we are talking about it here, means the offense being conservative to put the defense in better position. That is stupid.
How is the offense playing off the defense ? I’m assuming you are excluding the Rams game?
 

Mac_MaloneV1

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I did some research a couple of years back and found that over a 20 year span the Super Bowl had featured two teams with top 10 rushing attacks like 18 or 19 of the 20. Things have gotten wonky the last couple of years after Covid because I think KC has bucked that trend in at least two of their Super Bowl runs and I think the Pats did on their last Super Bowl run. You say teams that play complementary football have no history of success.. The facts say you're wrong.
The facts are literally right there bolded. Right now, you throw the ball to win.

Again, explain the LAC vs. Miami game. Stop ducking it.
 

Mac_MaloneV1

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I think you need something in between. It’s foolish taking chances on every drive when you have an elite defense. It’s just as foolish to get so conservative as MM has at times. They did open it up a bit this eeek and should continue, you can actually have bith safe, quick routes and down the field routes on the same play and Mike needs to do that. And keep moving lamb around so it’s hard to double or jam him
Not really.

You should have a deep shot built into just about every passing play. Doesn't mean you always have to throw it, but the idea that a play should be designed to only pick up a few yards is dumb. Read #1 should always be down the field.
 

Momanpr100

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It is stupid. The fundamental ideology of complimentary football is that "scoring fewer points is better."
No that's ball control offense, not complimentary football. You do that to keep your defense off the field, like all those bad defenses we had. Totally different now.
 

Mac_MaloneV1

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No that's ball control offense, not complimentary football. You do that to keep your defense off the field, like all those bad defenses we had. Totally different now.
That's the same thing.

See this is the problem with "complementary football." Nobody can even give me a definition of it.
 

JayFord

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its not an ouce of me that misses Kellen Moore

I dont miss gaining momentum after a turnover or a long drive and pulling out a trick play ALL THE TIME

I dont miss his offense coming up short against any halfway decent defense either
 

Momanpr100

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That's the same thing.

See this is the problem with "complementary football." Nobody can even give me a definition of it.
How do you feel it's the same thing? In one scenario you want your defense off the field as much as possible so they don't lose the game, and in our scenario we want the defense fresh so they can win the game. Whats there to understand? It's complimentary cause the offense moves the ball and keeps the defense fresh. Redzone looks like it's starting to click.
 
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