RELEASED Cowboys Release DE Damontre Moore

[Idgit]

People want to complain about the dredging we do for FAs but forget that one of our best Dlinemen was signed off the Chiefs’ practice squad. We actually hit on a decent number of these long shots (Mincey, Selvie, T McClain), even if none panned out this year.

I think they see teams hitting on the mid-range free agents and see it as a missed opportunity. Because it's not something that easily shows up in context how many ~$14MM guaranteed deals don't actually pan out. You see one or two that do, at a position of need in Dallas, and conclude we missed the boat. It's the FA equivalent of 'we should have drafted this guy instead of the guy we actually drafted.' And it looks good on paper, because you can cherry pick the examples.

But whatever methodology we use to build the team, we're going to make some mistakes with the personnel. I actually like the no-big-VFA-signings-unless-they're-good-value route. I'd prefer to draft and develop. It just sucks because we've come up short on defense with those first and second round picks here too often.

 

[HungryLion]

No matter how you slice it, the cowboys failed miserably in free agency this off season. All the money spent between Carroll, Moore and Paea who are all gone now, they could have signed a solid free agent who upgraded a position of need.

There is no lipstick for this free agency pig.

 

[gimmesix]

I think they see teams hitting on the mid-range free agents and see it as a missed opportunity. Because it's not something that easily shows up in context how many ~$14MM guaranteed deals don't actually pan out. You see one or two that do, at a position of need in Dallas, and conclude we missed the boat. It's the FA equivalent of 'we should have drafted this guy instead of the guy we actually drafted.' And it looks good on paper, because you can cherry pick the examples.

But whatever methodology we use to build the team, we're going to make some mistakes with the personnel. I actually like the no-big-VFA-signings-unless-they're-good-value route. I'd prefer to draft and develop. It just sucks because we've come up short on defense with those first and second round picks here too often.

While I do agree overall with what you are saying, I don't prefer this route. I think free agency can be used to add finishing pieces, but you've got to be aware that you are going to overpay for that. I believe in draft and develop and then supplement because you are not going to hit on all of your draft picks.

The cheap FA route rarely lands you a difference-maker. However, there can be buyers' remorse either way. Like you said, these players not even staying on the roster while we see others we could have had making a difference makes it easy to cherry pick, I haven't paid enough attention to see who got a big contract and isn't playing well, but I know there are some out there and they could have easily been the ones we added.

I would feel better about swinging and missing on one, though, than not swinging at all.

 

[Idgit]

While I do agree overall with what you are saying, I don't prefer this route. I don't think free agency can be used to add finishing pieces, but you've got to be aware that you are going to overpay for that. I believe in draft and develop and then supplement because you are not going to hit on all of your draft picks.

The cheap FA route rarely lands you a difference-maker. However, there can be buyers' remorse either way. Like you said, these players not even staying on the roster while we see others we could have had making difference makes it easy to cherry pick, I haven't paid enough attention to see who got a big contract and isn't playing well, but I know there are some out there and they could have easily been the ones we added.

I would feel better about swinging and missing on one, though, than not swinging at all.

I actually agree with that, but didn't want to open a can of worms. Every now and then there are guys worth overpaying for if you think it's a finishing touch signing. Or guys like Hardy who are expensive, but don't require long commitments where it's worth taking a big one-year risk.

 

[RS12]

This guy wears out his welcome everywhere he goes.

So you are saying its possible the Gnats, Raiders, Seahawks and Dolphins knew what they were doing?

 

[T-RO]

LOL.

Are you really arguing that we shouldn't consider signing a solid mid-tier FAs like a Micah Hyde because we need to keep that 4th round compensatory pick?

I've heard it all now. Now we can't sign any decent FAs because we have to worry about the 4th and 5th round comp picks. We are actually better off signing drek from the bargain bin that rarely works out for us and then getting a 4th or 5th round comp pick.

Oy.

LOL? The Cowboys Front Office and fans will be the ones laughing. With delight.

- Drafted players are in their athletic prime. Free agents are usually past it.
- Drafted players are cheaper, giving you flexibility. Free agents are over-priced

Of course w/that perpetual savings you can afford to retain the great ones that you get...the T Smith, the Martin, the Dak. And occasionally sure...the open market free agent.

Go study NFL history. 3/4 of free agents don't come close to living up to their contract. But fans fall in love with big shiny names...a Reevis or an Adrian Peterson. The marquee names last longer than the production.

Dallas is doing it right. Sorry you don't get it yet. You will.

 

[Stash]

-Claiborne got $5 mil. So we saved $ PLUS get a 4th or 5th round pick. And Lewis is better.

Lewis isn't "better". Not yet anyway. And it's Carr's atrocious deal we're talking about, and him being so bad that the team couldn't and wouldn't even keep him around as depth. And now we give up a 6th rounder for Bene Benwikere. No comments about that?

-Carr got 4 year $24 mil. That wasn't even an option for us. Ravens will regret that in a year or two, btw. Carr will fade just like Reevis and all the other aging corners.

Check out the deal, it's a one year contract with team options for more. Do your homework.

https://247sports.com/nfl/dallas-co...ue-on-Dallas-Cowboys-CB-Brandon-Carr-51457443

Cowboys got younger and I suspect as the season moves along...they got better...in the secondary. All while loading up picks and stockpiling cap space.

Other than the $4 million they flushed down the toilet for Carroll. Oh, and the $6 million to not have Cedric Thornton around, but yeah, sure "stockpiling cap space".

 

[JoeyBoy718]

He hasn't done anything all season. It would be nice to see Taco do anything this season. We also could use a DT.

 

[canters]

The days of JJ overpaying for a FA are over. It will be the draft and role playing FAs from here on.

 

[Doomsay]

LOL? The Cowboys Front Office and fans will be the ones laughing. With delight.

- Drafted players are in their athletic prime. Free agents are usually past it.
- Drafted players are cheaper, giving you flexibility. Free agents are over-priced

Of course w/that perpetual savings you can afford to retain the great ones that you get...the T Smith, the Martin, the Dak. And occasionally sure...the open market free agent.

Go study NFL history. 3/4 of free agents don't come close to living up to their contract. But fans fall in love with big shiny names...a Reevis or an Adrian Peterson. The marquee names last longer than the production.

Dallas is doing it right. Sorry you don't get it yet. You will.

“Read something Seth, learn a book.”

 

[Sydla]

LOL? The Cowboys Front Office and fans will be the ones laughing. With delight.

- Drafted players are in their athletic prime. Free agents are usually past it.
- Drafted players are cheaper, giving you flexibility. Free agents are over-priced

Of course w/that perpetual savings you can afford to retain the great ones that you get...the T Smith, the Martin, the Dak. And occasionally sure...the open market free agent.

Go study NFL history. 3/4 of free agents don't come close to living up to their contract. But fans fall in love with big shiny names...a Reevis or an Adrian Peterson. The marquee names last longer than the production.

Dallas is doing it right. Sorry you don't get it yet. You will.

Dallas has won like 2 playoff games in over 20 years.

Yeah, sure doing it right.

And yeah LOL at thinking having a 4th round comp pick is better than having, say Hyde, as your starting SS.

 

[Bleu Star]

Noodle arm is gone?!?!

HERCULES! HERCULES!

Oh wait...

 

[Sydla]

Then it's a bad point. Hyde was a $14MM guarantee on a guy you expect to be a mid-level SS for the next 5-6 years. He gets you ~65 tackles and 4 picks or so, but you pay a premium for him, and you move away from developing a guy behind him since you had to commit to more than the length of a rookie contract to get him to sign. Heath's a guy you get with a ~$2MM commitment, and he either pans out for you, or you plug in Woods/Awuzie and move on, singing Awuzie if he can play to that long term deal and limiting your risk in the process.

Again, the problem wasn't with the stop-gap. The problem comes in if you don't hit on your draft picks. Frazier, Awuzie, Woods. If none of those guys hit, you have troubles.

You're also doing a bit of 20/20 hindsight on Hyde, by the way. He's taking the ball away at a higher rate in BUF than he ever did in his rookie deal.

First of all 6.5MM for a starting SS who will be very productive for you is not overpaying. That's actually a really good deal.

Second, I am not hindsighting this at all. I was calling for Hyde when FA started.

Three the whole hey Heath is cheap but if he stinks we can move Awuzie there or Woods is band aid thinking. It's the same logic that gets us what we have always had. A mediocre defense because you are constantly trying to plug a hole caused by cheapness by trying to move guys around. We are doing it at DT now too. Hey Paea didn't work out..... But we can use a PS guy there or a cast off from GB.

It's not actually making the defense better. It's constantly trying to plug holes in the dam.

 

[Stash]

The days of JJ overpaying for a FA are over. It will be the draft and role playing FAs from here on.

"Role playing FA's". That sounds fine, especially compared to the "No playing free agents" we paid for this year.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

No matter how you slice it, the cowboys failed miserably in free agency this off season. All the money spent between Carroll, Moore and Paea who are all gone now, they could have signed a solid free agent who upgraded a position of need.

There is no lipstick for this free agency pig.

What was the loss or opportunity cost? Do they even have over $1m in dead money now that they are gone?

The rookies are fine at CB and Price has filled in admirably for Paea. Crawford, DLaw, Mayowa, and Taco have DE nailed down.

I guess its just a different measure of failed miserably. My definition of it entails the likes of Carr and Rivera who were signed to big money albatrosses and hamstrung the team for years. The kind of contract you are clamoring for here.

The Steve-o special doesn't hurt you if it doesn't work out. Paying multiyear contracts with large dollar amounts do. The Cowboys FA approach is sound.

 

[Stash]

What was the loss or opportunity cost? Do they even have over $1m in dead money now that they are gone?

The rookies are fine at CB and Price has filled in admirably for Paea. Crawford, DLaw, Mayowa, and Taco have DE nailed down.

I guess its just a different measure of failed miserably. My definition of it entails the likes of Carr and Rivera who were signed to big money albatrosses and hamstrung the team for years. The kind of contract you are clamoring for here.

The Steve-o special doesn't hurt you if it doesn't work out. Paying multiyear contracts with large dollar amounts do. The Cowboys FA approach is sound.

Agree to disagree.

It's one thing If you get less than what you hoped for. Even minimal impact. But when you're left with nothing but a $6 million dead cap hit for Cedric Thornton, a $4 million cost for one game of Nolan Carroll, and holes at 1-tech and DE, and nothing else, that's failure, plain and simple.

And now, on top of the Carroll fiasco, they're looking at having to give the Bengals that 6th round pick for Benwikere, who they obviously want off the field at all costs. Insult to injury.

That's not "sound".

 

[T-RO]

Dallas has won like 2 playoff games in over 20 years.

The formula has changed 180 degrees in the past few years. The reason we were perpetually pathetic is the organization was driven by Jones' impulsive throw-money at it philosophy (if I can even suggest he had a philosophy.)

Consider the crazy impulsive moves that led to our downfall: trading two first round picks for Joey Galloway, trading two premium picks for Roy Williams (with his big contract). The signing of Brandon Carr at $50 mil.

Dallas wasn't properly valuing draft picks...and was playing heavy at the top of the free agent market. They've finally cleaned that up.

Well...they've cleaned up most of it. Jerry still can fall in love with low-character or suspect-health guys that have slid.

The affordable talent Dallas has acquired in the past 18 months is breathtaking. We now have a do-able list of needs to target. I think we can make noise this year, and next year we could be absolutely loaded.

 

[robbieruff]

he musta did something Saturday night in SF

Lots of temptations in the City by the Bay...they didn't call it "the Barbary Coast" for nothin'...

 

[TheDude]

What are we complaining about here? We're not happy with how things turned out at DE this offseason? At CB?

Because we basically backed ourselves up at DE and CB in March, committed 100K to Moore, $2MM to Carroll, and replaced both effectively on the team before letting them go. Do we have issues at DE or CB I'm unaware of here?

Paea was an injury retirement, so where he came from or how much he cost is irrelevant. It'd have been worse if he were a more expensive player or cost a lot of capital to bring in in the first place.

What this is, is dissatisfaction with the 3 losses taking the form of complaints about how the team is built. That's a misdirection. The problem with the defense isn't the pittance we spent on Damontre or the whiff on Carroll. The problem with the defense is the whiffs on guys like Gregory, Jaylon Smith, Greg Hardy, Rolando McClain, Taco Charlton (so far), Awuzie (so far), Heath (so far), and the unnecessary missed availability of guys like Lawrence, Irving, and Scandrick for failing substance screenings. We're allocating less of the cap to defense, and we're whiffing at a higher rate than we did on offense. And when we had the chance to fix it last year, we spent the #4 overall and the #34 on, basically, a backup MLB who missed his first 16 games. It's not a mystery why our team isn't competitive with the very best teams in the league. We don't need to go looking under the bed for reasons that don't exist. Stay put, draft well, develop your players, and the approach we've got works. Signing guys like Micah Hyde isn't he answer. Not wasting a top 5 pick on a troubled running back and instead taking that impact defender at a position of need is the answer.

It really isn't an either/or though. They could have looked at Chris Baker, who always flashed against Dallas, for 3 years 15MM and he filled a huge hole in the middle.

cutting 80% of the FAs signings on "not exactly a dominant defense" is hard to spin as a positive

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Agree to disagree.

It's one thing If you get less than what you hoped for. Even minimal impact. But when you're left with nothing but a $6 million dead cap hit for Cedric Thornton, a $4 million cost for one game of Nolan Carroll, and holes at 1-tech and DE, and nothing else, that's failure, plain and simple.

And now, on top of the Carroll fiasco, they're looking at having to give the Bengals that 6th round pick for Benwikere, who they obviously want off the field at all costs. Insult to injury.

That's not "sound".

Has Benwikere been active? I haven't been paying attention. We are going to have 4 mid round comp picks next year anyway.

We still have ~$10m cap space this year and after that gets rolled over to next year they will have ~$28m. The $12m in dead money next year is mostly from Romo and is an average amount. The only bad contract we still have is Crawford and his 2018 salary of $6m is pretty manageable considering he is on pace for 7.5 sacks.

You are complaining about something of zero consequence. It seems obvious to me that the plan was to try and sign Martin this season and keep the ~$5m wiggle room they like to keep every year. They did manage to extend Collins. Now they can sign Martin and will have much more to spend on FA to either keep Cooper, Dlaw, or Hitchens or whatever else.

We don't have a hole at DE or DT. Crawford Collins Irving DLaw with Mayowa Price Tapper and Taco backing them up is where its at. Price is actually playing pretty well if you are insistent on a 1. He was a FA too. The DL has been outstanding this season. Crawford, Irving, and DLaw are all having their best years. They all play DE.